Hello NES my old friend.

[Agnotology]

I've lurked here for about 10 years. I got my FID when I was 19, let it lapse and sold off all my guns, and now I am going to enter the firearms world again.

In the next few weeks, I will be applying for an LTC Class A ALP, and hoping my local PD will approve it. They are green, but I also didn't see any updates with the change of our Chief of Police a few years back, so I suppose I will be an experiment.

Which leads to my the purpose to my first post in 3 years. (make that actually ever)

I am contemplating my first pistol purchase once I get my LTC. I am leaning towards either an Beretta 92 or a basic 1911. How basic? Rock Island Armory basic. I want something simple, reliable, and durable, and with a solid cost-to-value ratio, and something I can change bits on as I adjust the gun to me. Or the other way around. Who knows?

Anywho, hello all!

 

[yogi]

Welcome back. Timing is everything in life and we live in interesting times, so good luck with your LTC and firearm purchase.

 

[fencer]

Both guns you suggest are on the larger size for carry, but I would say the 1911 is a bit easier, as it is thinner.

It's pretty easy to find pre ban standard capacity magazines for the 92. The 1911 will have less capacity, but 45 acp is 45acp. Pro's and cons to both guns but if I had to choose one I would likely go with RIA.

Capacity: 92 - pre bans are plentiful
Build quality: Probably the 92
Conceal ability - RIA. It is thinner, therefore conceals better. Good belt and holster are key.
Cost : RIA (assuming new )
Custom Parts availability : 1911 by far. Everything from grips, to beaver tails, match grade barrels ( highly recommend ) sights and holsters.
Accuracy: ??? Probably the 92 out of the box. Get a match barrel and 1911.
Shootability: 92 - Pushing 9mm through a gun that big and heavy makes recoil a non issue. Quicker follow up shots.
Ammo cost: 92 far and away cheaper to shoot.
Design: 1911 is tried and true. 92 has stupid safety. I would budget $150 for a reliability service if the 1911 was my only gun. Polish feed ramp, new extractor.

Cool Factor : 1911. It's a 45.

Standard NES answer buy both. Twelve guys will be along to say buy a Glock instead, shortly.
Real answer... rent, borrow, shoot both. If you can't score hits with the 1911 you don't want it. If you can't shoot a 92 accurately, you just can't shoot. Buy a 12ga shotty and call it a day.

 

[MAGA99]

Creepy uncle joe says buy a shotgun, it’s all you need.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I've owned two Beretta 92s and shot many 1911s.

To get a Beretta 92 ready for carry, you just need a D spring kit. Done. No "budgeting money for a reliability service," just swap out a spring and you're good to go. The D spring isn't even a necessary change.

However...

You will shoot worse with the 92 for one very simple reason. The heavy double action trigger pull ensures that your first shot will be a flyer. Happened to me. Happens to Hickok45 and other pro shooters. Unless you're on Team Beretta or Team Wilson Combat, the 92 is not the choice of most competitive shooters because of the first, long trigger pull.

If the extent of my pistol universe only consisted of the 92 and the 1911, I would buy the 92 hands down. However, I would seriously explore more options than these two for serious use. There's plenty of reliable guns out there without the Beretta's double action trigger pull or the 1911's reputation for wonkiness, like the Browning Hi Power, a Glock, a HK, a CZ, etc.

Buy the VP9. Because you suck and we hate you and you eat crayons.

...

(Seriously, the VP9SK is a sweet pistol, I would love to buy one or eight)

HECKLER & KOCH VP9SK 9MM – The Gun Parlor

 

[namedpipes]

Both guns you suggest are on the larger size for carry, but I would say the 1911 is a bit easier, as it is thinner.
...

Sorta depends on the person's body. I can easily cc a 1911

 

[Picton]

1911.

It’s so much less bulky. The mags are slim, too, so you can carry extras.

 

[DarthRevan]

You will shoot worse with the 92 for one very simple reason. The heavy double action trigger pull ensures that your first shot will be a flyer. Happened to me. Happens to Hickok45 and other pro shooters. Unless you're on Team Beretta or Team Wilson Combat, the 92 is not the choice of most competitive shooters because of the first, long trigger pull.

Practice corrects everything.
Shoot any gun you buy enough and you’ll be able to control it properly. If your first shot is a flyer, you need to practice just the DA shot until it isn’t.

 

[daekken]

Rent and then buy. Pistols are too dependent on personal taste and preferences for a one size fits all solution.

I nearly bought an M&P until I tried a P226.
Many people here will suggest the S&W Shield--it's either the worst or second worst pistol I've ever fired.

Find a range that offers rentals and try a bunch that you are interested in. Best way to save yourself a few hundred dollars.

 

[ToddDubya]

Of those two, my vote is for the Beretta. Swap out for the D spring like was mentioned above and the DA trigger is much more reasonable. Cheap and easy to do. There's actually a knockoff made by Taurus that I believe was made in a former Beretta factory (or their machines? or something?) that puts the safety on the frame vs slide. That's worth looking into if you like the Beretta. I hate slide mounted safeties.

If it's to carry, my vote is for neither. I like my carry guns to be as small as possible (well, within reason I suppose).

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...prings/hammer-spring-d-version-prod27930.aspx

Welcome back and good luck with your LTC. In the meantime, keep an eye on the classifieds here for something(s) that catches your eye.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Practice corrects everything.
Shoot any gun you buy enough and you’ll be able to control it properly. If your first shot is a flyer, you need to practice just the DA shot until it isn’t.

It's a waste of time, money, and energy trying to overcome something that can be avoided by buying a better gun. We're not talking about overcoming a flinch or a grip, this is something that can be solved by getting a SAO or striker-fired pistol in the first place.

 

[DarthRevan]

It's a waste of time, money, and energy trying to overcome something that can be avoided by buying a better gun. We're not talking about overcoming a flinch or a grip, this is something that can be solved by getting a SAO or striker-fired pistol in the first place.

We’ll agree to disagree.
For a metal framed, da/sa, 9mm with readily available preban mags, it’s the best gun in my eyes and I carry it almost daily. So I learned how to shoot it proper because I love it, and I compete in IDPA with it.
To each their own.

I do recommend the D spring swap, metal guide rod, and 92G De-cock only upgrade. All parts you can buy direct from Beretta’s website.

If you find you like the gun, you can get super fancy and send it out to Wilson for enhancements. Or just shoot it as much as I have and keep it lubed, it’ll smooth itself out.

Edit: Also, it might be worth seeing if the 92X series makes it on the roster on the next go around. They’ve made some solid updates although I’m not sure if enough holster manufacturers will jump on the band wagon to support them.

 

[Dennis in MA]

 

[Picton]

Maybe compromise on a BHP? All the capacity of the Beretta with the slide width of a 1911.

Pricey, though. Especially in MA, where it’s hard to get the cheap Israeli military ones. SW 59 series is another option.

 

[Agnotology]

Both guns will be purchased just because I have loved both for so long. 1911 for its classic look and feel, and maybe one later in .45 super

My original plan was for an FN 5.7, but trying to find one with pre-ban magazines in MA would require selling a kidney to afford. Possibly both.

Will jot down the other suggestions here.

I personally hate compact pistols as my hands are fairly big, and I can never get a comfortable, confident grip on them. Half of my ring finger is usually hanging off the grip.

I'm fat, i could conceal a tomahawk missile under my rolls, so size is not much of a concern

 

[massgun]

Up to now, I never "tried out" a particular gun before purchasing it. When I decided to go to a small semi-auto pistol for carry, I decided to rent a few (5) and bought the one I was sure I wanted because it felt that good when I actually tried it (Sig P365). So, for guns that probably would never be carried, I would just buy it (unless I had an opportunity to try before buying in which case I would).

Anyway, welcome back to the Forum and good luck with your LTC application and future purchases!

 

[W.E.C]

Nice screen mane, aka the Democrats playbook.

 

[440beeper]

Welcome back. Both 92s & RIA 1911s are great guns. No issues with either of them and both are great for the range. For CC, they are too big for me, but they're still my favorites.

 

[TrashcanDan]

I personally hate compact pistols as my hands are fairly big, and I can never get a comfortable, confident grip on them. Half of my ring finger is usually hanging off the grip.

So you're cursed as well.
Have the same issue.
Any steel frame double stack should fit fairly well. I threw a set of palm swell grips on my 1911's, that took up some of the slack.

 

[fencer]

OP - have you checked out CZ?

 

[fencer]

It's a waste of time, money, and energy trying to overcome something that can be avoided by buying a better gun. We're not talking about overcoming a flinch or a grip, this is something that can be solved by getting a SAO or striker-fired pistol in the first place.

I will forward your opinion to the United States Marine Corps. I shot them both just fine. The 1911 I qualified with in Boot had 67 million rounds through it. I did ok. When the 92 replaced them, I cried inside. Then punched holes in the middle of target.

 

[Picton]

I will forward your opinion to the United States Marine Corps. I shot them both just fine. The 1911 I qualified with in Boot had 67 million rounds through it. I did ok. When the 92 replaced them, I cried inside. Then punched holes in the middle of target.

Off topic, but does every Marine qualify on a pistol in boot camp? Pistols in the Army are an afterthought, and most soldiers never touch them. Even the ones who had a pistol assigned only got to live-fire them once a year or so, if that, and that was in the Army's most deployable division.

 

[SFC13557]

Four Season's has new Beretta 92's for a VERY cheap price. I don't even like them(carried one in the Army) but the price is right so I'm considering buying one.

 

[citoriguy]

My first pistol purchase was a 92FS, and while I don’t shoot the gun much, there’s nothing wrong with having another 9mm in the stable, especially since I have too many pre-ban mags for it. I have not experienced the accuracy or other issues others have though.

I’m also a 1911 fan and collector. .45ACP is a great round, but carrying a Colt isn’t exactly discreet. I have way more .45ACP than 9mm, even though the math says I should go the other way.

My suggestion would be a HK 45C. Smaller, compact, light, and isn’t really noticeable when carrying.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I will forward your opinion to the United States Marine Corps. I shot them both just fine. The 1911 I qualified with in Boot had 67 million rounds through it. I did ok. When the 92 replaced them, I cried inside. Then punched holes in the middle of target.

Cool, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. The military has to buy thousands if not millions of guns, holsters, magazines, and other logistic supplies when they pick a pistol. One guy in Mass has to pick one gun to carry and has a vast number of guns to chose from. Again, why buy a gun that has a known mechanical feature that requires special training to overcome?

Clearly, the US military agrees with me because they're switching to a SIG. If the Beretta and the 1911 were manifestations of divine providence, .mil wouldn't be replacing them. Know what the P320 doesn't have on it? A DA/SA firing system. Looks like a striker-fired pistol to me. But there's zero reason to even bring .mil into the discussion because the market for concealed carry pistols is not comparable to the military demand for a service weapon -- I just mention it because you decided to wave your service record in my face.

Edit: just for fun, I pulled up the M17's Wiki page and the USMC plans to buy 35k M17s to replace the M9. So please do forward my opinion to the USMC because they agree with me.

 

[Picton]

Anyone who thinks the military buys the pistols with "the best" trigger or any other feature has no idea how the military works.

Low unit price, high durability, bribes to the procurement officers, above-average reliability. In that order. If anything, they want a heavier trigger to help prevent NDs.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Anyone who thinks the military buys the pistols with "the best" trigger or any other feature has no idea how the military works.

Low unit price, high durability, bribes to the procurement officers, above-average reliability. In that order. If anything, they want a heavier trigger to help prevent NDs.

Exactly, .mil buys guns based on the overall unit cost (including all the extras) and if the gun meets specifications. There's no reason to drag in subjective experiences from the military 30, 40 years ago when discussing a modern day buyer's concealed carry piece. But people chose to do so.

 

[Agnotology]

Its all good guys, I appreciate the feedback. Its good thought process.

Fencer - CZ's aren't what I had in mind as I have never held one, but are not outside the realm of possibilities

 

[enbloc]

.45 and don't forget a nice hat...

 

[fencer]

Off topic, but does every Marine qualify on a pistol in boot camp? Pistols in the Army are an afterthought, and most soldiers never touch them. Even the ones who had a pistol assigned only got to live-fire them once a year or so, if that, and that was in the Army's most deployable division.

We did in my day.