Healey "closing the loophole" letter to gun dealers

[Mikey]

My order was placed last friday, they emailed me today saying they canceled it. Good luck to you.

Also I think I said it before but I will say it again. We as a community need to also get on S&W about this, if they will not come out and support us then screw them and let the country now they don't care about the 2nd amendment. Same with any Mass police organizations support us and the Constitution or go to hell.

 

[mousegunfan]

BCM after Sandy hook. I wonder if this still stands?

"The people at Bravo Company USA and BCM support responsible private individuals having access to the same tools of civilian Law Enforcement to affect the same ends...As such Bravo Company's policy is that law enforcement officials and departments will be restricted to the same type of products available to responsible private individuals of that same city or state."

We need our FFL dealers to do the same thing. No AR sales to anyone, including LE etc.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[Wrench75]

There are many reasons one may have an unregistered gun in the DPRM - for example, registration is not required if you move in from out of state. Many of us have guns from the "blue card" days and rumor has it that the state didn't exactly do a stellar job of transcribing these into the database, and many cases of filled out blue cards were destroyed. The bottom line is that "not in the transfer database" is proof of nothing. The state would have to prove the gun was transferred under such conditions as to require a report to the state, and furthermore, that the offense of not reporting the transfer was done within whatever is the applicable statute of limitations.

Totally agree on the blue card stuff. But look at this...

Q: How do I report a firearm that was acquired by a means other than through a private sale/transfer or a Massachusetts dealer?

A: Massachusetts law requires all residents who purchase or obtain a firearm by any means other than by a personal sale/transfer or through a Massachusetts firearms dealer to register the firearm within 7 days using the Massachusetts Gun Transaction Portal.
top of the page

As I read it, if you move in to ma you have to register any of your collection that didn't come from a private sale, ie, anything you ever bought from a dealer in any state. Granted IANAL but the language seems pretty straight forward. That is from the FRB FAQ page here. http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

The quote I posted in the other link said to use the registration option if: opt. 1... opt.2... or opt 3 "if the firearms record bureau doesn't have a record of the firearm."

Between the two it sure seems like they expect to have a record of every gun in the state.

 

[MAJoe]

Totally agree on the blue card stuff. But look at this...



As I read it, if you move in to ma you have to register any of your collection that didn't come from a private sale, ie, anything you ever bought from a dealer in any state. Granted IANAL but the language seems pretty straight forward. That is from the FRB FAQ page here. http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

The quote I posted in the other link said to use the registration option if: opt. 1... opt.2... or opt 3 "if the firearms record bureau doesn't have a record of the firearm."

Between the two it sure seems like they expect to have a record of every gun in the state.

Their Q&A is wrong if you read the actual MGL. They expect, but it's not the law (subject to change at any moment).

 

[Billsail]

Do we have a list of Representatives and Senators who have responded to emails and are against the actions that the AG has taken? From the last several dozen pages of responses in this thread here's what I've gathered so far (I know this isn't nearly complete):

Rep:
Ryan Fattman
Joseph McKenna
Bradford Hill

Sen:
Bruce Tarr
Jennifer Flanagan

"I was on the steps of that state house yesterday speaking out against the AG's actions. We're working on legislation now to over turn the AGs decision. I'm going to work hard on this. I'll see you Saturday."

-Marc

Marc Lombardo
State Representative


"

 

[DAPPO]

It was said earlier in this thread if they just repealed the AWB in entirety they would solve the problem of future litigation.

Imagine the amount of sales tax they would get from just new 30rd magazines being sold in the state alone.

 

[TLB]

Totally agree on the blue card stuff. But look at this...



As I read it, if you move in to ma you have to register any of your collection that didn't come from a private sale, ie, anything you ever bought from a dealer in any state. Granted IANAL but the language seems pretty straight forward. That is from the FRB FAQ page here. http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

The quote I posted in the other link said to use the registration option if: opt. 1... opt.2... or opt 3 "if the firearms record bureau doesn't have a record of the firearm."

Between the two it sure seems like they expect to have a record of every gun in the state.

It''s because you aren't a Mass resident when acquiring out of state. When you move here you are not acquiring anything you already own.

 

[namedpipes]

The distinction between an AW by Healey's "copy" definition and one by the "evil feature" definition is a moot point: They are both illegal now and she has gone on record absolving you of prosecution. Therefore an AR with evil features is now just as legal as one without. As such there is no reason to pin a stock or remove bayo lugs since the legality of the gun has been decided independent of those features.

The rifle is an AW whether it is a copy or has evil features or both: There can be only one felony.

They are NOT illegal. They can't possibly BE illegal due to the 2nd Amendment.

The sole, LAWFUL recourse the government has is to individually prosecute those that commit crimes and through due process strip them of (some) of their civil rights.

Never acknowledge that such a blanket ban is even remotely lawful. You can choose to obey or to disobey it, just don't make the mistake of saying that what she/they did is legal. It isn't.

 

[teaser452]

Just had a brainstorm supplemented by 3 glasses of wine.

Chucky Baker has no power to over turn what the AG does.

But he does have the power to pardon. He could could grant blanket pardons to all FFLs retroactively and toward into the future. He could also blanket everyone who ever purchased in the last or will purchase in the future a blanket pardon for every semi automatic they bought/buy.

Back to drinking wine.

 

[Goliathan]

Just had a brainstorm supplemented by 3 glasses of wine.

Chucky Baker has no power to over turn what the AG does.

But he does have the power to pardon. He could could grant blanket pardons to all FFLs retroactively and toward into the future. He could also blanket everyone who ever purchased in the last or will purchase in the future a blanket pardon for every semi automatic they bought/buy.

Back to drinking wine.

He supports the ban and the reinterpretation of it. There's exactly zero chance he'll go out on a limb for the Second Amendment

 

[Mass-diver]

Just had a brainstorm supplemented by 3 glasses of wine.

Chucky Baker has no power to over turn what the AG does.

But he does have the power to pardon. He could could grant blanket pardons to all FFLs retroactively and toward into the future. He could also blanket everyone who ever purchased in the last or will purchase in the future a blanket pardon for every semi automatic they bought/buy.

Back to drinking wine.

Except baker is 100% anti-gun and fully supports the AG

 

[Wrench75]

It''s because you aren't a Mass resident when acquiring out of state. When you move here you are not acquiring anything you already own.

If the Q&A is wrong about it being in the law. Then it's wrong. Fine. But the Q&A directs you to the efa10 page and that page says...

Use this option if [strike=]1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2)[/strike] you recently moved to Massachusetts and [strike=]you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or [/strike]3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

I get the acquisition time frame thing, though I sure wouldn't want to be the test case. Now read that quote w/o the sections I struck.

Use this option if you recently moved to Massachusetts and you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

or...

Use this option if 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

They make no distinction as to when or where you acquired the firearm that "you possess" and that they have "no record of the weapon on file". Like I said, if it's not a law, it's not a law. But they sure do expect you to tell them about all of them.

I'm not saying I'm the last word on it or anything like that. Just how it reads.

 

[economist]

"Legal" is irrelevant. What matters is whether the AG decides to push her point, and I expect she will. But that won't lead to a trial. She will threaten a dealer or a buyer with tons of jail time and the chance to face her virtually unlimited prosecution resources. The subject of that threat will give up, take a plea, etc. That will send the desired message to the next commoner who dares not recognize her authority. She doesn't want to go to trial and truly test the power she just assumed. She wants to use that power, but only on her terms. This is all about her profile, her career, etc. Losing a court case or letting the pro-gun side push back both undermine her desires.

 

[Cmaro21]

Just had a brainstorm supplemented by 3 glasses of wine.

Chucky Baker has no power to over turn what the AG does.

But he does have the power to pardon. He could could grant blanket pardons to all FFLs retroactively and toward into the future. He could also blanket everyone who ever purchased in the last or will purchase in the future a blanket pardon for every semi automatic they bought/buy.

Back to drinking wine.

That would admit guilt and legality of murra, that fu(king twit

 

[RockIt]

You folks are just plain screwed, no doubt about it.

An anti gun legislature, an anti gun governor, no freakn way any of this is going to get overturned. They know they do not need your votes. They have been successful in reducing the number of gun owners and demonizing such ownership.

You can hypothesize until you are blue in the face about possible legal actions. But when your SJC is also anti gun and completely wired into the democrats you will not win. You may not be able to get in front of the SCOTUS either. Lately they have been turning down AWB challenges.

Frankly, after having lived there, I don't think there is anything that you can do to rectify the situation.

I know, you don't want to hear about moving because of family, etc. But, that is pretty much your only option other than banding together and deciding to ignore the law.

 

[Mass-diver]

You folks are just plain screwed, no doubt about it.

An anti gun legislature, an anti gun governor, no freakn way any of this is going to get overturned. They know they do not need your votes. They have been successful in reducing the number of gun owners and demonizing such ownership.

You can hypothesize until you are blue in the face about possible legal actions. But when your SJC is also anti gun and completely wired into the democrats you will not win. You may not be able to get in front of the SCOTUS either. Lately they have been turning down AWB challenges.

Frankly, after having lived there, I don't think there is anything that you can do to rectify the situation.

I know, you don't want to hear about moving because of family, etc. But, that is pretty much your only option other than banding together and deciding to ignore the law.

We are actually a big voting block that can make a difference. Sure a lot of people in MA are anti-gun, but it's not a major issue for most people.

 

[Jason Flare]

Q: I am a law enforcement officer. Does the notice affect me?
•No. The notice does not change the law with respect to ownership of Assault weapons by law enforcement officers. Your existing right to buy and possess Assault weapons remains protected under Massachusetts law.

I hate this **** stain.

It's actually pretty cool that she recognizes gun ownership as a right.

 

[kiver]

So with her new reinterpretation of her reinterpretation, what am I supposed to do with my stripped lower?

I took a rock and smashed all of mine.......

 

[Serapis]

So is it too late for people to fa10 lowers that they complete builds on?

What about people whom were on vacation, or sick and not watching the news. She gave less than one day notice. Seems even more egregious.


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[Goliathan]

It's actually pretty cool that she recognizes gun ownership as a right.

Only for the cops. You know, the people who's union lobby she actually respects.

 

[Bonesinium]

A few more points proving how ridiculous this is.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means-- ``(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as--
``(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
``(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and
Galil;
``(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
``(iv) Colt AR-15;
``(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
``(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
``(vii) Steyr AUG;
``(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
``(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

Yet...

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/large-capacity-roster-06-2011.pdf

Rifles & ShotgunsClass A or B LTCRequired

Colt
AR-15

It also includes several other AR and FAL type designs that she says have been illegal for the past 18-22 years.

Also notice:

revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12

I point this out because she is claiming the intent was to ban any firearm that is similar to the named firearms. Well why did they name a bunch of firearms but with only the Street Sweeper and Striker specify that firearms similar to them (by means of it's revolving cylinder in this case) are also included?

This from an ATF report on modern sporting rifles - https://www.atf.gov/file/57521/download

Could not find a copy of House Report 103-489.

Great catch. Blows her legislative intent argument out of the water. I'm sure the MA legislators DIRECTLY copied the federal ban with a totally different and contradictory intent...

Did they rewrite? On or before July 20, 2016

Another example of how bogus and made up this whole thing is. Just changing as she goes.

 

[napoleon1815]

So is it too late for people to fa10 lowers that they complete builds on?

What about people whom were on vacation, or sick and not watching the news. She gave less than one day notice. Seems even more egregious.


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Or those of us who paid in full for a gun and it hadn't arrived at the FFL yet.


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[crazymjb]

DO you people not read? Don't form legal arguments for our side on a public forum. Don't make her job any easier. God damn. Ever wonder why confidentiality is a thing in law?

Mike

 

[Shawnyc]

So the AG has declared that PARTS are now illegal in the Commonwealth?

So online companies are running with their tails between their legs....

 

[Bonesinium]

DO you people not read? Don't form legal arguments for our side on a public forum. Don't make her job any easier. God damn. Ever wonder why confidentiality is a thing in law?

Mike

Easier? How do you get easier than creating laws out of thin air?

 

[Warm_Garand]

DO you people not read? Don't form legal arguments for our side on a public forum. Don't make her job any easier. God damn. Ever wonder why confidentiality is a thing in law?

Mike

Did you go to Harvard Law School? No? Then what makes you think the AG will be overwhelmed by your legal prowess?

 

[GM-GUY]

Did you go to Harvard Law School? No? Then what makes you think the AG will be overwhelmed by your legal prowess?

Did you read what the AG OFFICE meaning they all had a hand in it, put out? If that is the best Harvard can turn out - but they did turn out 0bama.

I think crazymjb is right - don't point them in any direction.

 

[Obie1]

"I was on the steps of that state house yesterday speaking out against the AG's actions. We're working on legislation now to over turn the AGs decision. I'm going to work hard on this. I'll see you Saturday."

-Marc

Marc Lombardo
State Representative


"

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/314200-Politician-s-Responses-to-AG-Overeach

 

[MarkT]

Did you read what the AG OFFICE meaning they all had a hand in it, put out? If that is the best Harvard can turn out - but they did turn out 0bama.

I think crazymjb is right - don't point them in any direction.

I also agree.

 

[Noreaster]

A few more points proving how ridiculous this is.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121



Yet...

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/large-capacity-roster-06-2011.pdf



It also includes several other AR and FAL type designs that she says have been illegal for the past 18-22 years.

Also notice:



I point this out because she is claiming the intent was to ban any firearm that is similar to the named firearms. Well why did they name a bunch of firearms but with only the Street Sweeper and Striker specify that firearms similar to them (by means of it's revolving cylinder in this case) are also included?











Great catch. Blows her legislative intent argument out of the water. I'm sure the MA legislators DIRECTLY copied the federal ban with a totally different and contradictory intent...




Another example of how bogus and made up this whole thing is. Just changing as she goes.

1) Just because something is on the rosters, does not mean its legal to sell or even posses. A sell example would be glock 17 3rd gen.
2) There are AR-15 that are pre 94, This roster is clarifying that you need a Class A license to posses it.