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Has anyone seen a .500 S&W AR platform?

Fooped

Fooped

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Hey folks,

Just wondering if anyone here has seen a .500 S&W AR platform? I was told that there's not enough room for the rim in an AR-15 chassis, but I figured maybe an AR-10 chassis might work. I know there's 50 BMG single shot uppers for AR platforms, and the rim on that Bad Larry is WAY bigger than a .500 S&W rim, so I figure there's gotta be a way. Obviously the whole upper would be custom, but I'm looking for a configuration for my 2009 AR lower. [grin]

Any thoughts?
 
The max cartriage length of a S&W .500 Magnum is virtually the same as the .223 Remington max length and the round itself is the same width as the .50 Beowulf round, but I believe the OP is correct, the rimmed case of the .500 Magnum it too large for even the AR-10 bolt face. The AR-10 Bolt face is only designed to support a .308 casehead, which is the same case head as a .45 Auto and smaller than the mouth of the .500 Magnum. The Beowulf has a rebatted rim (actually uses the same rim as a .223 Remington)

All that being said, the round will fit into a magazine in the magwell, even if it requires a larger bolt face on a wider upper, it should be possible to design the upper to support the round. I would also be very interested in one so I can have a semi-auto rifle that carries the same ammo as my revolver.

Hey, while we're at it, how's about a S&W .460 Magnum upper with progressive rifling? I'm sure that beat could benefit from a nice 16" long barrel.
 
Both the .223 and the .308 operate at a lower pressure than the .500 S&W. The .50 BMG operates at slightly higher pressure but that upper is a single shot. Have you tried the .50 Beowulf? It's nice. I'd like to put one on my m16 lower. That might make a good car shooter! I'd like to see Marlin chamber their Guide Gun in .500S&W.
 
gerrycaruso said:
Both the .223 and the .308 operate at a lower pressure than the .500 S&W. The .50 BMG operates at slightly higher pressure but that upper is a single shot. Have you tried the .50 Beowulf? It's nice. I'd like to put one on my m16 lower. That might make a good car shooter! I'd like to see Marlin chamber their Guide Gun in .500S&W.
Click to expand...

The problem is .50 Beowulf brass is basically made of unobtainium. .500 S+W is relatively easy to obtain by comparison.

-Mike
 
I could have sworn I saw an AR at a gun show in North Carolina last year that was labeled as .500 S&W. I didn't look too closely at it other than that but it definitely wasn't 50 Beowulf.

That being said I could also be wrong and it may have been chambered in .50 AE I've never seen or heard of another one since then.
 
gerrycaruso said:
Both the .223 and the .308 operate at a lower pressure than the .500 S&W. The .50 BMG operates at slightly higher pressure but that upper is a single shot. Have you tried the .50 Beowulf? It's nice. I'd like to put one on my m16 lower. That might make a good car shooter! I'd like to see Marlin chamber their Guide Gun in .500S&W.
Click to expand...

The .500 S&W hits harder than the .50 Beowulf.

ShadeWPI said:
I have heard the .500 S&W Magnum was rerated at 65,000PSI, but I know it was lower originally. Most of the load data I have has max loads around 50-52k.
Click to expand...

I've loaded some to over 60K. Shit, who am I kidding. I've loaded a lot to over 60K, maybe a few over 65K.

Has anyone ever made an AR that feeds a rimmed case?
 
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OK, since I'm all about data, and I don't trust conjecture and conventional wisdom, I broke out the calipers, some cases, and the BCG out of a Bushy .223 AR.

Here are some cartridge measurements.

Rim Diameter:

.223 (LC 07) - 0.375"
.223 (RORG) - 0.376"
.223 (R-P) - 0.376
.30-06 (WRA 54) - 0.468"
.30-06 (S&B) - 0.469"
.30-06 (LC 72) 0.471"
.500 S&W Mag (Corbon) - .553"
.500 S&W Mag (Starline) - .557"
.500 S&W Mag (Hornady) - .560"

Now for the .223 AR bolt face:

ID - 0.385"
OD (between the lugs) - 0.528"
OD (largest diameter including lugs) 0.740"

Conclusion:
It can't be done with a standard .500 S&W cartridge because the rim of the case is as much as 0.032" wider than all of the available material on a standard AR bolt face.

If someone was to make a bolt for a S&W .500 that had the same wall thickness as the standard AR bolt (even though the S&W .500 operates at a higher pressure) the OD of the bolt (between the lugs) would have to be 0.712". To keep the same length lugs, the bolt (including lugs) would have to be 0.924" (assuming the same dimensions would contain the higher pressure, which they probably would - and then some).

Just for the record, the diameter of the BCG is only 0.928".
 
Last edited:
EddieCoyle said:
OK, since I'm all about data, and I don't trust conjecture and conventional wisdom, I broke out the calipers, some cases, and the BCG out of a Bushy .223 AR.

Here are some cartridge measurements.

Rim Diameter:

.223 (LC 07) - 0.375"
.223 (RORG) - 0.376"
.223 (R-P) - 0.376
.30-06 (WRA 54) - 0.468"
.30-06 (S&B) - 0.469"
.30-06 (LC 72) 0.471"
.500 S&W Mag (Corbon) - .553"
.500 S&W Mag (Starline) - .557"
.500 S&W Mag (Hornady) - .560"

Now for the .223 AR bolt face:

ID - 0.385"
OD (between the lugs) - 0.528"
OD (largest diameter including lugs) 0.740"

Conclusion:
It can't be done with a standard .500 S&W cartridge because the rim of the case is as much as 0.032" wider than all of the available material on a standard AR bolt face.

If someone was to make a bolt for a S&W .500 that had the same wall thickness as the standard AR bolt (even though the S&W .500 operates at a higher pressure) the OD of the bolt (between the lugs) would have to be 0.712". To keep the same length lugs, the bolt (including lugs) would have to be 0.924" (assuming the same dimensions would contain the higher pressure, which they probably would - and then some).

Just for the record, the diameter of the BCG is only 0.928".
Click to expand...

+2 for excellent data. I agree that it would be impossible (or at least almost) to make it work with the amount of material available in a standard-sized AR BCG. I was thinking about a custom upper that would "flare out" allowing the entire BCG and it's breach/operating area to be of sufficient size to accomodate the oversized rim. I figure if it can be done with a .50 BMG round (albeit single-shot) then someone should be able to make this happen.

I agree about the .50 Beowulf option, but the brass is hard to find, and I've already got 300+ pieces of .500 S&W Magnum brass for my revolver so...

I'm suprised some custom shop hasn't already done this. Between all the talent and resources we have here on NES, I wonder if we've got the chops to build a prototype upper?

Hmmmmmm....
 
icyclefar said:
Since you're dreaming Greg ........................

How about a 12GA belt fed upper?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7vwivR6cE
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not dreaming. If there's someway to get the upper built without it being 14 billion dollars, I'm gonna be slinging 500 grain air-to-air missiles at pumpkins and/or a car (at the car shoot of course).

Giggity. [wink]
 
I have seen a .454 Casull upper, that in and of itself is pretty crazy. I couldn't imagine the need for a .500 :D
 
On a related but different topic, I read somewhere that there was a prototype X-frame Smith and Wesson chambered for .223 and using moon clips. I think it was a 10 shot cylinder, 10" barrel and integral compensator. Anyone else see one? This I would buy.


Chris
 

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My appologies, it was .458 SOCOM from Rock River. The nice thing about the .458 is that you can use your existing magazines.
 
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Executive said:
On a related but different topic, I read somewhere that there was a prototype X-frame Smith and Wesson chambered for .223 and using moon clips. I think it was a 10 shot cylinder, 10" barrel and integral compensator. Anyone else see one? This I would buy.


Chris
Click to expand...

I'd buy one in a second.
 
Why not go with the .458 SOCOM? It's ballistics are similar to a 45/70, and it is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than building a custom upper. I would rather invest in equipment to load .458 SOCOM than invest ten times more in a custom upper that may or may not work out to your satisfaction. I don't see 500S&W being superior enough to bother with the expense that will be involved. But it's your money.
Kenny
 
I just receieved an email from Marty at Teppo Jutsu, looks like it's possible, but VERY complicated, finnicky and expensive. I may have to go the .458 Socom route.

(copied from ARFcom in answer to another board member making the same inquiry):

Aside from the bolt strength, feeding is the issue. The S&W headspaces on the rim. This means the chamber has to have a ring around it to support the rim, but small enough to still fall within the bolt face recess (the recess is deeper than the rim is thick). Plus, this ring has to have a section removed to allow clearance for the extractor to rotate. So you are now trying to feed a round into a chamber that has a sharp metal ring surrounding it and you are trying to do so with gaping hollow point stubby round bullets. Note that the normal AR chamber has a chamfer to help guide the round into the chamber if it is not perfectly heading that way already. Making the rimmed rounds feed is a BEAR, ask Tony, the 44 Mag uppers he built were finicky as all get go.

Then there is the minor mag issue, the 50B and 458S will single stack nicely due to absence of a rim (or a rebated one if you insist). Having the rimmed 500 S&W stack will be a challenge, given the limitations and will require a dedicated mag. While 22LR is cheap to shoot and folks can be persuaded to buy lots of custom mags for that caliber, the market for 500S&W will just not support that type of investment.

If someone REALLY wanted an upper in 500S&W, it COULD be done, but the cost would be outrageous and it would have to be someone's pet project. A smith would end up having to charge way too much for R&D time...

Note on the 44 Mag upper from Tromix, you would think that with magazines available (from another platform) and a very well known and popular round, sales would have been outstanding. Even following an article in Gun World, all of SIX were sold. The .50AE far outsold it and after that arrived the .50B and .458S which vastly outsold the .50AE.


Meh. [sad][crying][frown]
 
Just think of all the time money and hassle you will save! 458 SOCOM is not a bad round by any means. I only dream of such luxuries, hell I've never even shot an AR! If I had the SOCOM available to me and could afford it I would jump all over it. You will be a very lucky man in my eyes to own one.
 
My guess is the Arfcom answer pretty much kills the whole deal however it made me think that with minor engineering hassle you could fabricate a 500 S&W revolver upper for an AR.

I know, I know, it's not tacticool or mucho capacity, but I think it is completely possible.
 

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