Harvard, MA Appleseed Shoot November 14-15, 2009

[dwarven1]

Boy does Ross like caps. That post sounded like a beastie boys song.

Are we happy now?

 

[hbennett]

A cook no more..

Was only able to make Sunday.. and debated about that.. due to the lingering effects of whatever bug the kids brought home from school..glad I did though. Shot 2 qualifiers before lunch..and had a few close calls on others.. decided to call it an early day.. I'll blame it on getting old..

The handouts from the last HSC Appleseed were a big help. My prone targets were my biggest problem at the previous event, so that's where I concentrated most of my practice. Did dry fire "drills" for 10 or 15 minutes once or twice a week as the "homework" suggested in the handouts. Got to the range a couple of times since August..mostly as a check on the dry fire practice..

Also found out that MY rifle doesn't seem to like federal 550 bulk pack ammo..might as well throw rocks.. MY rifle is OK with Remington "golden bullet" and REALLY seems to like Federal "match" ammo. . the system needs to exceed the operator's ability, otherwise there will be no improvement.

Thanks to all the instructors..you folks are awesome.. Learned a bunch at my first event..took the suggestions...made some adjustments..the improvements speak for themselves.

 

[sleeplessknight]

Unfortunately I could only make the first day. Even then, I learned SO MUCH about how many bad habits that I have, I am definitely a better shot (haven't earned the title 'rifleman' yet, but its coming) than I ever was before. We got SOAKED that day, but it was fun. This morning however, my dog appeared to have a bad stomach bug. Lets just say he looked like a chocolate lab (he's a Golden Retriever) and leave it at that By the time I got him outside, hosed off, cleaned up, and the house returned to some kind of semi-normalcy, Appleseed had already started, and I live an hour+ away. I'll definitely be at the next (warm-weather) one though!

 

[MasterShinken]

Had a great time yesterday, and really learned a lot. Thanks for hosting this and my group of friends and I look forward to coming again and going thru both days.

Really wanted to come back today but 3 out of 4 of us woke up sick (one getting a fever) from staying in the mud all day yesterday, so we decided to practice on our own and get work towards passing the AQT for later (hopefully when it gets warmer, lol) rather than get more sick.

Thanks again for all the great instruction and for the fun time

 

[ixia]

That was a great day of shooting. Now I'm going to have to get out past 25 yards.

 

[MetalgodZ]

NPOA, NPOA, NPOA. I've got some work to do.

Good time - definitely enjoyed the shooting and the history. Thanks to all who put this together.

 

[Firewall99]

Try the standard M16A1 sight tool. Does windage just fine. I assume you're thinking of the elevation on the TSR200 that no one makes a tool for... except for Remington, PRVI Partisan, Sellier & Bellot, Winchester, etc... anyone that makes .223 round, that is. Bring tested rain gear (stuff you KNOW works), a mat, a tarp to put under the shooting mat, some sort of small tarp / oilcloth / plastic bag to put on top of your rifle while you're not shooting, and a towel or two. In a ziplock bag - you'll want it at lunch time to get your face and hands dry. Warm clothes!! 50 degrees when you're soaking wet is no joke, people! If you do not have rain gear, I suggest you hie yourself hence to the nearest motorcycle shop or Dick's Sporting Goods and pick yourself up a good rainsuit. (Dick's will have them in the Lodge - for hunting). The bike shop will have stuff that ranges from $25 or so for a two piece PVC to who knows how much for the good stuff. I'd get at least the next level up from the PVC, if you can afford it. The PVC will feel clammy. At the very least, get it big enough to put a wool sweater under it. A good hat is going to be a requirement, too. Either that, or bring 6 or 7 ball caps so you can swap them out as they get wet. You'll probably want to oil your blued guns well beforehand, as they will be soaked within 1/2 an hour. If that long. If you've got a cheap scope... don't bring it. It'll last probably 30 minutes. (that's what happened to the $5 scope my nephew put on HIS 10/22. He promptly borrowed my LTR, which had a 1960's vintage steel-tube Weaver on it... which ran the rest of the day without a hiccup.) Seriously. Make sure you've got either peep sights or a good scope that'll handle the rain. An ammo can for your ammo would be a good idea, as the rain will destroy cardboard cartons. Also someplace to put your mags would be a good idea, too - dropping mags in the mud as you cycle through them is a BAD idea. Tends to crud up the mags. Leave your ego at the gate (you won't need it), listen to the instructors, and LEARN - you're in for a great time, even in a noreaster.

Boy does Ross like caps. That post sounded like a beastie boys song.

Are we happy now?

BOY, IS CHRIS SURE SENSITIVE ABOUT CAPS!

Ross, noli nothi permittere te terere (real Latin for "Illegitimi non carborundum").

I thoroughly enjoy your expressiveness. Expressive SB's are fun and make the technical stuff more entertaining. +1 for your content, too! Just for the record, in your 400-500 word post above, other than abbreviations which are always capitalized, you used a massive number of THREE words in all caps.

oNE oF tHESE dAYS i'D liKE tO gET mY hANDs oN tHE geek-head BOZO who arbitrarily decided that all caps can mean only one thing. Countless good discussions have been hijacked, as I must do also now to make my point, because of this stupid, so-called "rule."

We have italics, bold, underlining, color, and ALL CAPS in our writer's tool chest for expressing emphasis, all of which, if used judiciously, appropriately, and, need I say, sparingly, can be downright useful. Expressing ideas through the written word is hard enough without lame and arbitrary limitations on one's freedom of expression.

ok, flame off. whew! i have been meaning to get that off my chest for ages. i feel much better now. thanks for listening.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

<- Rifleman

I wanted to thank Crak and Jon for the event, I had a blast. I know Kaisha did as well.

Saturday was miserable, and compounded by a family issue that I had to take care of after lunch. We were there for the first AQT of Sunday morning, though, and it was a great day. Somewhere after lunch everything clicked, and all 6 steps started working together. I shot Rifleman with about 2 hours left of day light, then got to play with my AR a little bit, sorry to everyone that had to deal with that obnoxious muzzle break of mine.

I sewed my patch on my jacket last night, and can't wait to get my orange hat, they didn't have any to hand out, and start training to train. I am psyched to be apart of the cause.

Thanks again,
Ed

 

[Sprocket]

I wanted to thank Crak and Jon for the event, I had a blast. I know Kaisha did as well.

Saturday was miserable, and compounded by a family issue that I had to take care of after lunch. We were there for the first AQT of Sunday morning, though, and it was a great day. Somewhere after lunch everything clicked, and all 6 steps started working together. I shot Rifleman with about 2 hours left of day light, then got to play with my AR a little bit, sorry to everyone that had to deal with that obnoxious muzzle break of mine.

I sewed my patch on my jacket last night, and can't wait to get my orange hat, they didn't have any to hand out, and start training to train. I am psyched to be apart of the cause.

Thanks again,
Ed

Yeah, it was like that for me too - congrats on your patch and hat

 

[Steve_P]

The wife and I had a great time. We were definitely disappointed that we had to leave early on Saturday.

To the guys that helped me break into my car (If you are on NES): thanks very much! I owe you each a beer. I also still have your flathead screwdriver, PM me your address and I'll gladly mail it back.

I can't wait to get to the next Appleseed!

Steve

 

[Stratocaster1422]

NPOA, NPOA, NPOA. I've got some work to do.

Good time - definitely enjoyed the shooting and the history. Thanks to all who put this together.

How did your sites hold up? I meant to check with your during the shoot. Did you end up using purple loctite?


You'll get there....a rifleman persists. Just practice, practice, practice.

 

[MetalgodZ]

How did your sites hold up? I meant to check with your during the shoot. Did you end up using purple loctite?


You'll get there....a rifleman persists. Just practice, practice, practice.

Sights held up fine. I just said "screw it," zeroed indoors @ 25 yards w/ a bipod, and red loc-tite'd everything down. I think I may have used blue for the rear sight screw, though.

I was a little worried about the front sight never coming off again, even if I needed it to, so I locked down the rear sight and set the rear windage to exact center first, then knocked the front sight 1/16" or less to the right in order to correct the POI, and then poured red loc-tite in the hole and tightened it down.

Working up a target holder for the local indoor range so I can go and shoot indoors after work on weekdays. I'll get it.

 

[crak]

SPEAKING OF BREAKING INTO CARS: ( you CAPS guys seem to have missed my smiley)

I have a plastic bag of somebody's tools that were found next to some sort of improvised wire tool that was probably part of breaking into Steve's car.

I still have noelephant's targets too!!

 

[MasterShinken]

The wife and I had a great time. We were definitely disappointed that we had to leave early on Saturday.

To the guys that helped me break into my car (If you are on NES): thanks very much! I owe you each a beer. I also still have your flathead screwdriver, PM me your address and I'll gladly mail it back.

I can't wait to get to the next Appleseed!

Steve

Woops, new I forgot something, lol. No problem, glad to help. I'll PM my address now. Thanks!

SPEAKING OF BREAKING INTO CARS: ( you CAPS guys seem to have missed my smiley)

I have a plastic bag of somebody's tools that were found next to some sort of improvised wire tool that was probably part of breaking into Steve's car.

I still have noelephant's targets too!!

yeah those would be the tools I forgot, was in a rush to get back out the rain i guess, lol.

I can PM you my address if you can mail them back.

Thank!

 

[SineMetu82]

Thanks to all the red/orange hats who helped and congrats to all the riflemen! 1st Appleseed and it was one I'll remember forever- with the cold rain, mud, my stock cracking(special thanks for letting me borrow a 10/22 stock!), and some other minor malfunctions of course!

A patch was just not in the cards for me this time sadly, I was just having a bad time of it. I was expecting to shoot somewhere around 190 by the end of day one and couldn't even break past 168 by day two! I am definately not used to "D-" shooting. I felt good sunday morning warming up on the redcoats but then it went down hill. After lunch I started to improve but fell apart as the afternoon dragged on. However, I have all winter to fine tune and bring that score up! I expect to be sewing by April 19th, 2010!


PS Crak, what was the time limit for the AQT? I'd like to know so I can practice getting my NPOA and shifting on time. I think that was my biggest problem was taking to long to get my NPOA, then rushing to finish the course of fire, which of course means all those rushed shots were crap.

 

[crak]

4 Minutes

 

[Stratocaster1422]

Rapid Fire AQT is 40 Rounds in 4 minutes.

 

[mike93lx]

thanks to Crak and everyone else that put this event on. I had a great time and was able to dig down deep and pull off a rifleman score as well. My shooting improved massively over the weekend.

Definitely looking forward to my orange hat as well.

 

[Buck05]

Thanks to all the hats for a great day. I have lurked on NES for years and only today joined, really wish I had known you all were on here and we would have been more prepared for the shoot. Oh well, next time.

So proud of my DH for making rifleman. Can't wait for the next one so I can be prepared and actually make good use of the excellent instruction without all the frustration.

Congrats to all you new riflemen out there. It was a tough day and you all showed what you were made of. Great job!

And Crak, loved your passion when you story told. I want to add something to your repertoire, although it doesn't come from the founding fathers, it sounds like it could have been. It was MLK Jr, it's on my wall at work, and I truly feel as if it is exactly what was running through the minds of all of those men when asked "will you fight?"

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Expediency asks the question - is it politic?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must take it because it is right.

 

[crak]

Another Harvard Appleseed, another "hurricane" limps through New England. This makes two in a row. This one probably 20 degrees colder than the last.

No Matter: Every one of our 30ish shooters showed up this time. Unlike Hartford, there was no cover.

Seven came out Riflemen:
Mike T. (Bringing the WHOLE family down. NICE!) Now that's something worth caps.
John (The most cheerful guy I've ever seen in rain gear)
Henry (Proving all he needed was one more "last" AQT in August.... that and a lot of dry fire)
Mike (in a back brace, patiently ignoring every new instructor that would come by and tell him to get his leg up)
Ed (overcoming a fusterclucked 208 AQT that would've crushed a lesser man not made of iron and beard)
Dave (the first time he worked through all his malfunctions in time to get all 40 downrange... with 20 seconds to spare)
Mike W. (doing it in style in a leather coat)

Sadly, it gets dark at 4:30 now so we couldn't get any more.

On my line, poor Dan had the curse of the support elbow that could go to the other side of the rifle. When in the right place, he could put four rounds in the same hole.

Kaisha's going to get it at the next Appleseed she comes to... as an IIT!!! (three exclamation points, btw)

Grace can hit Moscow from here prone using a loop sling and a big angle now. Once Dave cuts the end off that rifle stock, sitting and standing will work just as well and she'll get her patch too.

Cathy wasn't on my line, but I know she was over there giving those targets the business again. Soaked to the bone and shivering again. Maybe even in the same puddle/pond as the last Harvard Appleseed. Awesome. Just awesome.

"Ask and ye shall receive from a fellow Appleseeder" proved itself once again on Saturday morning with a key snafu. "Does anybody know how to break into a car?" Yes we can. And with a chamber flag and some improvised thing made out of target wire, yes they did. Before the safety briefing was even finished. And Steve got to start shooting with everybody else (well, at least with everybody else on the line that got started shooting first )

One unsung hero was Dwarven1. Though he couldn't be at the shoot, he knows what Appleseeding in "hurricanes" is like, so he put up a very informative post warning the shooters about what to prepare for. Not everybody can just be the mind over matter type (don't mind, don't matter) at their first Appleseed and he made sure to let everybody know the smart way to do it.

The IITs Alix, Josh, Karen, and Mike all looked like a bunch of pros. Good thing everybody who saw me as a no-hat probably forgot about it by now. I tricked Firewall into flying without a net (ie. SBing a line with no plan) and it didn't kill him. Buckskin was the one smooth part of my admin table chaos. As usual CetmemanNH was the last one to leave the range. Though after I left, I realized I had waved bye to Russ as he was driving in a really "interesting" direction. I don't know where that road goes so he still might be at the range.

Next Harvardseed is April 19th! (Already?!) But we have several more frozenseeds before then around here, and hope to see y'all at one of those.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Ed (overcoming a fusterclucked 208 AQT that would've crushed a lesser man not made of iron and beard)

I literally just spit burrito all over my laptop, . Thanks again Crak, I will be at every 'seed my job allows me too.

Ed

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Does anyone have any pictures from the weekend?

 

[Firewall99]

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Expediency asks the question - is it politic?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?
And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must take it because it is right.

Buck05,

That is a great quote. Putting it into my quote book, and I will use it at an Appleseed soon.

John

 

[ArmySarge]

I'm interested in finally getting into some competition, but, have a few questions. Are the Appleseed shoots aimed more at beginners? It sounds like there's a block of instruction before the shooting begins, I'm always open to pointers but don't want to sit through a "this is the trigger, this makes the gun go boom" intro class. Also, why the popularity of the .22 rifles? Is it again because of ease of handling, low ammo cost, something else I'm missing? I also see some have scopes and some use iron sights, are there different classes based on configurations? One more, if it's a 40rd qual then why do you need to bring 400rds with you? No complaints about shooting that much, just curious on how this works. Thanks for the answers in advance.

 

[Sprocket]

ArmySarge - The Appleseed Project shoots are not competition, they are a mix of instruction and heritage.

The instruction portion consists of roughly 3/4 of a day of instruction and practice designed to teach shooters of any experience level the skills/techniques for shooting rapid fire cadence accurately.

The other 1/4 of the day is used to convey the heritage of this country and why being a rifleman is important - examples from the events of April 19, 1775 are used to illustrate the points.

Over the course of 2 days you'll possibly fire 3 or 4 hundred rounds, depending on your energy level. Day 1 is primarily instruction and practice with the last couple hours shooting AQT targets. Day 2 is mostly AQT's with drills to eliminate bad habits.

Heritage is mixed in at different times of the day - before shooting, lunch, post shooting.

If you're looking more for straight competition I suggest looking for the CMP shoots. If you're looking to shoot more to practice for CMP, then come to an Appleseed and see how fun a challenge can be.

Welcome on the board, hope to see you at a 'Seed shoot.
Sprocket

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I'm interested in finally getting into some competition, but, have a few questions. Are the Appleseed shoots aimed more at beginners? It sounds like there's a block of instruction before the shooting begins, I'm always open to pointers but don't want to sit through a "this is the trigger, this makes the gun go boom" intro class. Also, why the popularity of the .22 rifles? Is it again because of ease of handling, low ammo cost, something else I'm missing? I also see some have scopes and some use iron sights, are there different classes based on configurations? One more, if it's a 40rd qual then why do you need to bring 400rds with you? No complaints about shooting that much, just curious on how this works. Thanks for the answers in advance.

Last weekend I attended this shoot. I shot somewhere around 5-600 rounds maybe more. I went to my first Appleseed on labor day weekend, and was borderline embarrassed with myself because I walked in with the "I know how to shoot" attitude, and my targets told a different story. It wasn't until the second day of my second shoot that I forced all my military bad habits out completely and allowed the instruction to sink in that I shot Rifleman.

I wouldn't discount these events as a beginners shoot that would be a waste of time, it is designed for everyone, beginners to advanced shooters. It is also a great way to meet up with good, like-minded people. The history lessons are great, the instructors are very good and enthusiastic about what they are doing, and it is 2 days of cheap shooting. I highly recommend at least attending one, bring the girlfriend, wife, and kids (if you have them), they all shoot at the cost of ammo, no registration fees.

I will be at everyone that I can swing from now on.
Ed

 

[Firewall99]

APPLESEED: A PRIMER FOR EXPERTS

I'm interested in finally getting into some competition, but, have a few questions. Are the Appleseed shoots aimed more at beginners? It sounds like there's a block of instruction before the shooting begins, I'm always open to pointers but don't want to sit through a "this is the trigger, this makes the gun go boom" intro class.

Check out the "What to Bring" checklist. #1 one that list, because it's the most important, is a teachable attitude. If you have a real desire to learn and improve, Appleseed will push you to your personal limits--and beyond. Even if you are an experienced or expert shooter, you will learn more about yourself in 2 days than you have in all your past experiences in any other programs. If you have marksmanship demons, you will get to know them quite well, and then we'll help you exorcise them. But it's best to arrive with an open mind, not one with "expert" blinders on.

Ask anybody. Appleseed works. The reason Appleseed works is that we start at the "beginning" and go through every single step in the process necessary to firing accurately and reliably under pressure. You'd be surprised how many experienced shooters discover that they had missed or forgotten critical pieces of the skill set despite the best of training.

(For the record, the "beginning" is after you know how to fire your rifle and have fired about 100 rounds through it. While we get complete novices frequently, we take them off to the side at first for the really basic stuff. You won't have to worry about that.)

Also, why the popularity of the .22 rifles? Is it again because of ease of handling, low ammo cost, something else I'm missing? I also see some have scopes and some use iron sights, are there different classes based on configurations? One more, if it's a 40rd qual then why do you need to bring 400rds with you?

First, we shoot approx. 500 rounds per shooter per day for two days. You can buy a new Ruger 10/22 for the cost of the centerfire ammo alone. For a .22, the ammo cost is as low as $15/day.

Second, after the instruction, the course of fire is mainly 40 rounds in 4 minutes, run for the rest of the day. Part of this is intended to break you through to the other side. (It's kind of a zen thing.) We do break up the grind from time to time to run various remedial drills as needed. Sometime we even run fun team exercises involving running to your rifle (or to a different rifle three slots down), loading 40 rounds, and putting as many hits as you can on a wickedly small target in 60 seconds. (Hint: you can't miss fast enough.)

We also break up the shooting with amazing tales of organization, heroism and spastic chance that took place on April 19th, 1775, the day "a shot was heard around the world." Our forefathers sacrificed everything they had to bring us a free country. As Americans we have a unique obligation to pass that inheritance on to our neighbors and future generations. Appleseed is there to help.

 

[ArmySarge]

Thanks for the replies, very good info that has me even more interested. I am definitely teachable and this sounds like it could be a good time on top of that. Hopefully my irregular work schedule and upcoming marriage don't prevent me from attending at least 1 next year. I'm still wondering about the scope vs iron sights thing, is it simply a matter of personal choice?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I used a scope last time because I need new prescription glasses and couldn't see with irons. Once I get new glasses, I will try again with irons, as I have a 10/22 set up with tech sites. It is all personal preference as the 6 steps of firing a shot don't change regardless of what you are using to point the rifle.

 

[Sprocket]

Myself, I wanted the challenge of irons - being newish to rifle shooting (more than plinking) I wanted a good foundation before I started using optics.

Knowing your equipment well is more important than what exact equipment you use.