Gun Transfer Dilemma

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theGringo

theGringo

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My son is coming home on leave in April. He's driving up from Kentucky.He has two handguns, an M&P 40c and a Springfield Armory .45, The .45 is not Mass compliant. He's like to leave the guns with me while he's in Germany. He leaves in June and will be gone a while.

He can't transport the guns by car under FOPA because he's not Mass legal. He can't ship the guns to me directly. He could do an FFL transfer, but not on the Springfield.

He could transport to VT under FOPA, I think. I could meet him there and take possession. I think.

But frankly, I'm baffled.

Solution?
 
Your son is coming to Massachusetts to compete in an USPSA or IDPA match. He has a flyer for the tournament with him in his car (there's a match every weekend - pick a match the weekend he's coming). The guns are unloaded, locked in the truck of his car. Done.

Just make sure he does not bring any high capacity magazines with him.
 
TonyDedo said:
Your son is coming to Massachusetts to compete in an USPSA or IDPA match. He has a flyer for the tournament with him in his car (there's a match every weekend - pick a match the weekend he's coming). The guns are unloaded, locked in the truck of his car. Done.

Just make sure he does not bring any high capacity magazines with him.
Click to expand...

There you go again! Felony quality advice . . . all wrong. Invest a few bucks and sit down with Atty Jason Guida before giving any more legal advice! [angry]
 
theGringo said:
My son is coming home on leave in April. He's driving up from Kentucky.He has two handguns, an M&P 40c and a Springfield Armory .45, The .45 is not Mass compliant. He's like to leave the guns with me while he's in Germany. He leaves in June and will be gone a while.

He can't transport the guns by car under FOPA because he's not Mass legal. He can't ship the guns to me directly. He could do an FFL transfer, but not on the Springfield.

He could transport to VT under FOPA, I think. I could meet him there and take possession. I think.

But frankly, I'm baffled.

Solution?
Click to expand...

VT meet-up would work but make sure that the guns don't have any post-9/13/1994 hi-cap mags or you'd be illegal.

If he's been out of state for >180 days and MA is his "home of record", I THINK (not positive) that the "new resident" 60 grace period might apply (see MGL C. 140 S. 129C(j)) and give him FOPA coverage to bring them home (but only if they aren't considered "large capacity firearms" due to the Comm v. Cornelius case). Please understand that I am NOT 100% positive about this.
 
LenS said:
VT meet-up would work but make sure that the guns don't have any post-9/13/1994 hi-cap mags or you'd be illegal.

If he's been out of state for >180 days and MA is his "home of record", I THINK (not positive) that the "new resident" 60 grace period might apply (see MGL C. 140 S. 129C(j)) and give him FOPA coverage to bring them home (but only if they aren't considered "large capacity firearms" due to the Comm v. Cornelius case). Please understand that I am NOT 100% positive about this.
Click to expand...

Well, he's a KY resident now. He has a KY drivers license and a KY CCDW permit. So the IDPA match is a no go? I have a buddy that used to be MSP (he's FBI now and also a JD) ... I recall he used to pull over out of state guys with cased guns in the back seat. If they had proof they were attending a shooting event he's let 'em go. That was some time ago, though.

If all else fails, FOPA will allow him to travel to VT, I guess. I just have to worry about some dick cop who doesn't give a damn about FOPA. It's a long ride through NY.

He's got a TS security clearance, is looking at promotion to E-6 soon. He's thinking of making a career in the Army and he doesn't need a problems now. I'll drop Guida a line. I worked with him on a transfer regarding a buddy of mine who got his guns yanked a while back.
 
Just no, there is NO EXEMPTION for coming into MA for any matches/competition. Doubt me? Ask Jason Guida, he was the source of this info. We all (were mistaken) failed a basic English rules of sentence structure test on this (S. 131G) and it took Jason to correct it. GOAL, many attorneys and myself were all wrong in our prior interpretation.

Many LEOs don't know this, so you might skate by, but it is illegal and a felony if you get someone who was a wiz in English class.
 
theGringo said:
It shouldn't be this hard ...
Click to expand...
No it shouldn't but our masters that are supposed to be our servants want it to be as hard as possible.

- - - Updated - - -

LenS said:
Just no, there is NO EXEMPTION for coming into MA for any matches/competition. Doubt me? Ask Jason Guida, he was the source of this info. We all (were mistaken) failed a basic English rules of sentence structure test on this (S. 131G) and it took Jason to correct it. GOAL, many attorneys and myself were all wrong in our prior interpretation.

Many LEOs don't know this, so you might skate by, but it is illegal and a felony if you get someone who was a wiz in English class.
Click to expand...

It's too bad the govt. does not understand the phrase:"shall not be infringed"
 
LenS said:
VT meet-up would work but make sure that the guns don't have any post-9/13/1994 hi-cap mags or you'd be illegal.

If he's been out of state for >180 days and MA is his "home of record", I THINK (not positive) that the "new resident" 60 grace period might apply (see MGL C. 140 S. 129C(j)) and give him FOPA coverage to bring them home (but only if they aren't considered "large capacity firearms" due to the Comm v. Cornelius case). Please understand that I am NOT 100% positive about this.
Click to expand...
Why not just stick both (unloaded) guns in a Kentucky bank safe deposit box, assuming of course that he is returning to Kentucky at some point? If not, a safe deposit box can be rented in VT or NH. He does not need to bring the guns into MA, especially if he has illegal post-ban high capacity magazines. I rented a medium-sized safe deposit box at a local bank for $75 per year. This one would easily hold two handguns and a few magazines. Less than the cost of a consultation with a lawyer, that's for sure!
 
TOM1960 said:
Why not just stick both (unloaded) guns in a Kentucky bank safe deposit box, assuming of course that he is returning to Kentucky at some point? If not, a safe deposit box can be rented in VT or NH. He does not need to bring the guns into MA, especially if he has illegal post-ban high capacity magazines. I rented a medium-sized safe deposit box at a local bank for $75 per year. This one would easily hold two handguns and a few magazines. Less than the cost of a consultation with a lawyer, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

A valid option.
 
TOM1960 said:
Why not just stick both (unloaded) guns in a Kentucky bank safe deposit box, assuming of course that he is returning to Kentucky at some point? If not, a safe deposit box can be rented in VT or NH. He does not need to bring the guns into MA, especially if he has illegal post-ban high capacity magazines. I rented a medium-sized safe deposit box at a local bank for $75 per year. This one would easily hold two handguns and a few magazines. Less than the cost of a consultation with a lawyer, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

A valid option.

ETA: With the deactivation of the 3/1 IBCT, however, he may never return to Kentucky ...
 
TOM1960 said:
Why not just stick both (unloaded) guns in a Kentucky bank safe deposit box, assuming of course that he is returning to Kentucky at some point? If not, a safe deposit box can be rented in VT or NH. He does not need to bring the guns into MA, especially if he has illegal post-ban high capacity magazines. I rented a medium-sized safe deposit box at a local bank for $75 per year. This one would easily hold two handguns and a few magazines. Less than the cost of a consultation with a lawyer, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised however if such agreements with banks prohibit firearms, but there's no reason you couldn't just ignore that. Put the guns in boxes when you bring them in the bank and just tell them its your coin collection. [laugh]

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
I wouldn't be surprised however if such agreements with banks prohibit firearms, but there's no reason you couldn't just ignore that. Put the guns in boxes when you bring them in the bank and just tell them its your coin collection. [laugh]

-Mike
Click to expand...

hey, it's precious metal! [laugh]
 
How do out of staters come to MA to shoot in competitions? Say the S&W indoor IDPA's?
 
What's the box sir?
Prototype Machine Parts, I'd show you, but then you might rip me off.
 
chris_1001 said:
How do out of staters come to MA to shoot in competitions? Say the S&W indoor IDPA's?
Click to expand...

They "just do it", like free men would, because despite that exemption being invalid, it's not like PDs come to these things to round people up while checking papers.

-Mike
 
LenS said:
Illegally!
Click to expand...

Can you refer me to how the reading of 140 Section 131G came to be read such that competitions are illegal? The wording "may carry a pistol or revolver in" seems so clear. Is there a thread on this somewhere?

Found the thread http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/239943-Are-out-of-state-guns-legal-to-shoot-at-a-MA-gun-club/page2?highlight=131G

I guess I should have known it was something stupid like this. The reasonable person would realize that the background checks that states run before issuing CCW permits are good enough and the extra licensing requirements are BS. Oh well.
 
Last edited:
theGringo said:
My son is coming home on leave in April. He's driving up from Kentucky.He has two handguns, an M&P 40c and a Springfield Armory .45, The .45 is not Mass compliant. He's like to leave the guns with me while he's in Germany. He leaves in June and will be gone a while.

He can't transport the guns by car under FOPA because he's not Mass legal. He can't ship the guns to me directly. He could do an FFL transfer, but not on the Springfield.

He could transport to VT under FOPA, I think. I could meet him there and take possession. I think.

But frankly, I'm baffled.

Solution?
Click to expand...

Why can't he just ship them to you via FFL's? Have an FFL in Kentucky ship them to a local FFL.

I had a similar situation when my brother moved out of state and left his guns in my care until he got settled.

The way I read you post the goal is just for you to store them for him while he is deployed so no transfer is necessary.

I am not an expert and I expect others will chime in.

Bob
 
I would just have him travel to Vt using FOPA and you meet him there to take possession. There is no need to transfer the guns to your name or anything for you to hold onto them while he's away. LenS explained this in a thread in the Firearms or laws section a while ago. You can borrow a gun across state lines (as long as it's legal in that state/city, so no free state black rifles) as long as it's for sporting purposes only, so no carry. So the easiest thing is Kentucky to Vt, you meet have breakfast/lunch/dinner then drive to MA.
 
to the OP.

The idea of meeting him out of state is a good one. VT has been mentioned. Just be aware that RI and NH are also legal.

Also, if he was on his way to NH or VT and you happened to meet him along his route while he was in MA and took possession of the guns then, he'd be fine. He can possess the guns in MA legally, as long as his destination is not in MA.

Simple huh?
 
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