Gun storage

[joe6486]

I've been pricing gun safes, and while the security is nice, they are still rather expensive, and difficult to move and install. But I do have a couple of good closets in my basement that could easily be reinforced and properly locked.

From a security perspective, I would consider it satisfactory. But what about from a legal perspective? Does a secure closet (used primarily for gun/ammo storage) count as a "locked container" in the eyes of the law?

 

[C-pher]

Well, unless you can keep you basement completely dry, they are usually too moist to keep guns.

But if it's a finished basement then that shouldn't be a problem.

As for locked container, I'll leave that one for our councilors.

 

[JonJ]

Here's a piece from the Mass Chiefs Of Police:
Whole Text of Document: http://www.masschiefs.org/hottopics/hotpdf's/firearms_pdfs/Articles/August%202001.pdf

The law requires that weapons stored or kept must be secured in a locked
container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety
device. The lock or safety device must be properly engaged so as to render the
weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully
authorized user.
It is not clear from the statute what would qualify as a locked container.
Certainly containers specifically designed to secure firearms would suffice. For
example, all gun cases, regardless of their material (cloth, leather, hard-case,
etc.), so long as they were locked, would appear to meet the criteria. So would a
locked gun display cabinet, even one with a glass front. Since the statute does
not define "locked container", it is possible that a locked closet and even a locked
room would apply. When holding a large gun collection, it is not uncommon to
place them in a locked room or vault, with or without an alarm. It appears clear
that simply locking one's home was not intended to suffice. However, where an
alarm system was in place, a defendant could be expected to raise a defense
that is was sufficiently secure to satisfy the law.

 

[Chris]

Well....

The law says unloaded, enclosed, and a tamperproof mechanical device securing it from use.

A recent court case decision seems to think that you need to defend against 'a determined person'. but of course doesn't bother to define that.

Just make sure the hinges are not easily popped or the lock pickable. I would try to make the storage such that damage has to be done to defeat it. As to what is 'legal' is anyone's guess.

 

[Executive]

After pricing "gun safes" I decided that I was better off using a tool storage box. I got one frome Home Depot for $250 that has 18 cubic feet of storage-way better than the 6 or 7 cubic feet from a $400 safe. It has two Master #5 Padlocks that are fully enclosed, making it impossible to cut them with bolt cutters. You would need a welding torch or plasma cutter to get into this box. My practice is to also lock each gun inside the box as well. Further, I have a separate locked box inside the tool storage box for protecting additional items like keys. The upside is that I am very confident that my guns are safely, legally, and securely stored. The downside is that if I need to get one in a hurry...

Regards,
Chris

 

[Len-2A Training]

Generally a locked closet, with a REAL LOCK (padlock or exterior door lock, not a bathroom door lock) will suffice for legalities.

The case that recently went "askew" involved a door with a bathroom door lock (single small hole that a nail or thin screwdriver will pop).

 

[Lugnut]

I'm sorry- but is it required to have the locked up firearms UNLOADED? I keep a loaded firearm in my safe!

 

[Chris]

Lugnut...

You are correct. I don't see anything illegal about a loaded and stored firearm. However, as a matter of safety, usually stored guns are not loaded. (NRA rule #3)

I have a quick access lock box, but I do not store a loaded gun in there at all times. IF something were to occur while I was out of the house, the last thing I would like to do is have the components all together.

Still, I guess it isn't technically illegal, just not a great practice.

 

[Lugnut]

Lugnut...

You are correct. I don't see anything illegal about a loaded and stored firearm. However, as a matter of safety, usually stored guns are not loaded. (NRA rule #3)

I have a quick access lock box, but I do not store a loaded gun in there at all times. IF something were to occur while I was out of the house, the last thing I would like to do is have the components all together.

Still, I guess it isn't technically illegal, just not a great practice.

The last thing I want to be doing if an intruder enters my house is load a magazine and rack the slide before seeing what's going on. It's quite a distinctive noise that I'd rather not have anyone hear. Plus it's valuable time.

This also means loading and unloading everytime I CCW. NRA says aways keep your firearm unloaded till ready to use... so I guess "ready to use" is subjective since I carry loaded firearms as well. The question is is a firearm that is locked in a safe "ready to use" in the same sense? Hmmm....

Oh well... I guess I need to think this one out...

 

[Executive]

How about keeping your semi auto stored adjacent to a loaded magazine or a couple of speedloaders adjacent to your revolver? In this way, you can quickly load while maintaining compliance with the law and at least a reasonable effort at meeting the NRA guidlines.

Regards,
Chris

 

[matt]

The last thing I want to be doing if an intruder enters my house is load a magazine and rack the slide before seeing what's going on. It's quite a distinctive noise that I'd rather not have anyone hear. Plus it's valuable time.

Why not let 'em hear? It'd scare the bejesus out me if I was creeping around your first floor and heard that sound. It's worth having a shotgun just for that sound!!

Matt

 

[Lugnut]

Why not let 'em hear? It'd scare the bejesus out me if I was creeping around your first floor and heard that sound. It's worth having a shotgun just for that sound!!

Matt

LOL. Maybe true.

 

[Lynne]

You shouldn't be creeping around your home with a gun, in the dark, if you hear a noise.

You need to have a "safe" room to go to with a secure, hardwood door and REALLY good lock on it. Lock it, stay in the roon and call the police. Stay on the line with them (you're being recorded), that way if the BG tries to kick down the door, you then say "Get out of my house! I have a gun and the police are on the way!" You're recorded telling them to 1) get out of your house, 2) you have a gun and 3) the police are coming. Just in case you need to shoot cuz the dip$hit didn't listen and you wind up going to court.

 

[Lynne]

I forgot to add that I have a loaded gun next to me at night.

 

[KMaurer]

I forgot to add that I have a loaded gun next to me at night.

Doesn't everybody? I mean, that's one time you probably need to take it off.

Ken

 

[Adam_MA]

Doesn't everybody? I mean, that's one time you probably need to take it off.

Ken

So what you are saying, is that I'm the only one who sleeps with my gun still on?

Adam

 

[Lynne]

Doesn't everybody? I mean, that's one time you probably need to take it off.

Ken

Only during certain times dearheart....like some men take their hats off.

 

[traveler57]

Okay, just to confirm. (I am one who always wants to differentiate between the actual law and people's preferrences.) Can anyone show me the law that says that your firearm needs to be UNLOADED, when stored, in a locked container? I am speaking about in the home, not vehicle. In a vehicle, you do have to have it unloaded, if you put it in the trunk, say while you go into someplace that won't let you carry. And this is for LTC A holders too. That is another topic.

But, here is the law (below) that I know (thought?) about that covers non-vehicle storage.. It doesn't say "unloaded" anywhere. So, even though some will have a preferrence for leaving their guns unloaded in a safe, it is not law, and only their preferrence. Further, this is where the wording of the law actually implies that a trigger lock would be legal for storage. Note the use of the word OR. But, I have seen a trigger get pulled by a trigger lock, so I don't use them ever. So, yes, my defense pistol (not the others) is always loaded when in the safe. An unloaded gun in the safe is useless for defense. Next, someone will tell me that they CCW with an unloaded gun for "safety." So if you keep your defense pistol unloaded in your safe, that's okay, as it is your choice. Just don't imply that it is for better safety or for the law.

Just my 2 cents......

MASS General Law
Ch 140 Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

 

[Len-2A Training]

traveler,

I *believe* that you are right, that the law is silent on this and thus it is not illegal to leave a loaded gun locked up. I'm sure that the police, DA, judge and jury would frown on it and succeed on painting a "bad guy" for doing so . . . but you should be meeting the law.

Use of trigger locks is strictly for "meeting the law", NOT FOR GUN SECURITY/SAFETY . . . only the perception of same by morons that know nothing but pass and enforce laws! I certainly would not put one on a loaded gun! But I have been known to leave an unloaded AR15 with a trigger lock on it "to meet the law" back before I had a large enough safe to store long guns.

Storing a loaded gun further points to the critical need for EVERYONE in the household to ALWAYS treat every gun as loaded at all times and always check the status each time it is picked up.

Folks: Recognize that the above is strictly "my opinion" and not a pronouncement of the law.

 

[Pilgrim]

An unloaded gun in the safe is useless for defense.

So is a loaded gun in a safe.

 

[traveler57]

Pilgrim,
When I say my loaded handgun is in a safe, it is in one of the "3 seconds to open" electronic type safes. (with a backup key on my key-ring.) And leaving a loaded gun out on the nightstand or in the nightstand drawer is not realistic, for either my children or common sense. It is a compromise that we (I?)have to accept.

Len, don't worry, I NEVER use a gun lock, ever. I just added the part about the trigger lock on a loaded gun just to point out how stupid (unsafe) the law is and that "meeting the law" has very little to do with true gun safety. It also is a great example of how the law is actually the opposite of good firearm safety. And, in this thread I think we were focusing on the "storage" of your self-defense gun, versus all the other guns we have in our BIG safe.

I agree that we should all always practice good gun safety, all the time. And then treat the subject of the law and being legal on it's own, and never confuse "law" with actual gun safety.