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Gun licenses relatively easy to obtain in Mass.
- Thread starter Coyote33
- Start date
Gun licenses relatively easy to obtain in Mass.
April 01, 2007 6:00 AM
How hard is it to get a firearms license in Massachusetts? Police say not terribly, as long as you don't have a criminal record.[/quote]
Who says the press doesn't have a sense of humor?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Well I guess it just depends were you live, In my town all you do is take the class and pay the $100 and you are done (the LEO also give out Class A ALP automatically unless you ask for something else). But obviously in some places it is impossible to get a LTC at all.
Nice factually incorrect article:
As we all well know, this isn't true a lot of the time. In some places
if you get an A, it may not be ALP/none.
Nice confusing and wrong statement on more than one level.
An LTC-B does not allow concealed carrying, nor does it restrict someone only to
owning a revolver. Someone might also get the impression from that
statement that it doesn't allow you to own a high capacity rifle, either, which
is also wrong.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
-Mike
As we all well know, this isn't true a lot of the time. In some places
if you get an A, it may not be ALP/none.
Nice confusing and wrong statement on more than one level.
An LTC-B does not allow concealed carrying, nor does it restrict someone only to
owning a revolver. Someone might also get the impression from that
statement that it doesn't allow you to own a high capacity rifle, either, which
is also wrong.
-Mike
Of course the police say its easy! Duh, half the stuff they make us go through is against the law anyway.
Its like a used car salesman saying "It Runs Great!"
Ever hear them say "It'll start, but I wouldn't trust 'er!"
This is like asking the fox if the chickens are safe!
Should read:"How hard is it to get a firearms license in Massachusetts? Not terribly, as long as you don't have a criminal record, and the Police don't feel the need to make things difficult."
Its like a used car salesman saying "It Runs Great!"
Ever hear them say "It'll start, but I wouldn't trust 'er!"
This is like asking the fox if the chickens are safe!
Should read:"How hard is it to get a firearms license in Massachusetts? Not terribly, as long as you don't have a criminal record, and the Police don't feel the need to make things difficult."
Chris
NES Member
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- May 24, 2005
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My god... Where to begin in the errors there....
Any? How about US Citizens only (unless you are applying for the non-resident in which case you can be an alien). Cleaner criminal history than even the Boy Scouts require. And willing to register with the state every time they move unlike even Sex Offenders are required to. Yea, ANY...
Nope, there are 7.
Restricted FID (OK, not really firearms, but it does cover ammunition)
FID
Class B LTC
Class A LTC
Non-Resident LTC
Alien FID
License to Carry Machine Gun
Nope. On the 5th birthday after issuance. Could be as little as 5 years and a day.
Nope. Can only purchase as many as your financial means allows. Of course, many low income residents are prohibited by the steep license costs and the arbitrary AG's Consumer regulations.
Nope. Misdemeanors too, and it isn't the sentence, but what the sentence COULD have been. Federal law prohibits anyone with a prohibition to touch a gun, so the 5-year thing is moot.
As for the 'right' thing, I think the author should read the state's constitution and see that there is NOTHING there about right to an FID, but rather a right to a GUN period.
Nope, only the Class A
Only in a non-concealed and loaded manner. However, concealed is implied by the previous statement which is wrong. I won't even get into the quagmire of Open Carry issues.
Nope. An approved safety device must be sold with the gun. No trigger lock or 'fitment' required.
Well, that sure as hell rules out the trigger lock as it has been shown time and again that guns fitted with these can indeed be operated. Of course, this isn't what the law really says, but what does the media care about the truth?
Drug offenses are disqualifiers. My question is why this person wasn't convicted. Or is this just another example of the laws NOT BEING ENFORCED?
Man, you'd think a journalist would do better than 10 errors in 11 paragraphs.
Any? How about US Citizens only (unless you are applying for the non-resident in which case you can be an alien). Cleaner criminal history than even the Boy Scouts require. And willing to register with the state every time they move unlike even Sex Offenders are required to. Yea, ANY...
Nope, there are 7.
Restricted FID (OK, not really firearms, but it does cover ammunition)
FID
Class B LTC
Class A LTC
Non-Resident LTC
Alien FID
License to Carry Machine Gun
Nope. On the 5th birthday after issuance. Could be as little as 5 years and a day.
Nope. Can only purchase as many as your financial means allows. Of course, many low income residents are prohibited by the steep license costs and the arbitrary AG's Consumer regulations.
Nope. Misdemeanors too, and it isn't the sentence, but what the sentence COULD have been. Federal law prohibits anyone with a prohibition to touch a gun, so the 5-year thing is moot.
As for the 'right' thing, I think the author should read the state's constitution and see that there is NOTHING there about right to an FID, but rather a right to a GUN period.
Nope, only the Class A
Only in a non-concealed and loaded manner. However, concealed is implied by the previous statement which is wrong. I won't even get into the quagmire of Open Carry issues.
Nope. An approved safety device must be sold with the gun. No trigger lock or 'fitment' required.
Well, that sure as hell rules out the trigger lock as it has been shown time and again that guns fitted with these can indeed be operated. Of course, this isn't what the law really says, but what does the media care about the truth?
Drug offenses are disqualifiers. My question is why this person wasn't convicted. Or is this just another example of the laws NOT BEING ENFORCED?
Man, you'd think a journalist would do better than 10 errors in 11 paragraphs.
Garys
NES Member
I read this article on Sunday morning and almost choked on my bagel. The headline is misleading as is the article. In the article they talk mostly about getting and FID card. Then they put in a bit about a LTC A or B, but they don't make a clear distinction between the two.
It's ironic that in order for my daughter to be able to buy Mace, she has to get an FID card. The process for that is the same cost as for a LTC and not much less hassle. So, it makes more sense for her to apply for an LTC than an FID.
Stupid politicians.
Gary
It's ironic that in order for my daughter to be able to buy Mace, she has to get an FID card. The process for that is the same cost as for a LTC and not much less hassle. So, it makes more sense for her to apply for an LTC than an FID.
Stupid politicians.
Gary
You might be interested in these new bills:
AN ACT relative to remove pepper spray from firearms identification
AN ACT to allow citizens possession of non-lethal protection
An Act Relative to Non-Lethal Self Defense Sprays
An Act Relative to Application for the Use of Mace
An Act Relative to Enhancing Self Defense
An Act Relative to Pepper Spray
An Act Relative to Increasing Accessibility to Non-lethal Self Defense Sprays
Gary, not according to law.
FID restricted to chemical sprays is not supposed to require any courses and is supposed to cost $25, with free renewals.
I'm sure that some departments are "using discretion" to boost fees (illegal) or add additional requirements (not allowed either). There is no real penalty if they abuse the public, so some choose to do so.
Garys
NES Member
For awhile after the FID/LTC fees were increased, the permit for possession of chemical sprays also went up to $100.00.
I don't recall how long the $100.00 fee was in effect (a few months, maybe?), or how many applicants ended up paying the new fee.
Hmmmm.... I wonder how many people that paid the $100.00 received a $75.00 refund once the blunder was corrected?
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
That's assuming any of those bills even advance to the floor to be debated and voted on...
NOT!
USMA-82
NES Member
Here's a copy of my response to the author, and his response (LONG):
Rob:
You were way off on this one! Below is copy of your article with my corrections:
Gun licenses relatively easy to obtain in Mass.
April 01, 2007 6:00 AM
How hard is it to get a firearms license in Massachusetts? Police say not terribly, as long as you don't have a criminal record.
(In terms of time, it can take weeks or months. Some Departments require a shooting qualification course, letters of reference, notes from a physician, and other hoops to jump through)
Local police departments issue permits to any applicants who meet the base qualifications, pass a safety course and pay a $100 fee.
(There is, in fact, a long list of disqualifiers that prevent many people from obtaining a license – and rightfully so.)
There are three types of firearms licenses, each of which must be renewed every six years. All of them allow holders to purchase an unlimited number of guns, as long as they are legal firearms and fit within the holders' license restrictions.
(Actually, there are six: Restricted FID, FID, LTC B, LTC A, Non-Resident LTC, and Machine Gun License. Yes – you can possess a machine gun in Mass, but you have to be a law enforcement firearms instructor, or a “Bona Fide Collector” to qualify. And every one of those “unlimited number of guns” has to be reported to the State Criminal History Systems Board. This is the place where Massachusetts keeps track of Murderers, Rapists, Drug Pushers….. and lawful gun owners.)
A Firearms Identification Card allows for the possession of rifles and shotguns, excluding large-capacity models. (A restricted FID card is available for the possession of chemical sprays.)
All state residents have a right to an FID card unless they have been convicted of a felony, or a violent or drug offense that resulted in a sentence of more than two years in prison within the last five years.
(If you are convicted of a misdemeanor punishable by more than 2 years, you are also disqualified. What are some examples? Here is a list from Chief Ron Glidden’s Guidelines for Law Enforcement: Failure to Report a Hotel Fire, Causing Injury in a Physical Exercise Program, Larceny of Under $250 from an Elderly/Disabled Person. Yup, some real criminals in that list….)
The second and third types are Licenses to Carry, or "pistol permits," which allow for the concealed carrying of handguns.
Anyone holding a Class B permit can carry revolvers, rifles, shotguns and other non-high-capacity firearms.
(Nope – the Class B License-to-Carry doesn’t allow you to carry! That is only allowed with a Class A permit, and only if there are no restrictions on the license. The Class B license DOES allow you to have large-capacity rifles (more than 10 rounds) and shotguns (more than 5 shells), but does not allow large-capacity handguns (more than 10 rounds). This part of the law is extremely confusing because of the terminology.)
State law requires that every gun sold within Massachusetts must be fitted with a trigger lock and all guns must be stored either in a locked container or equipped with a lock that renders it inoperable.
(Actually, only large-capacity firearms must be sold with a trigger lock (see definitions above), but the gun shops generally tell you they need to sell one for a “standard-capacity” firearm, as well – more profits. There are also differing storage requirements if you are talking transport vs. your home.)
Unlike FID cards, police can withhold pistol permits at their discretion.
"It would depend on the individual's background and if there was some objection to giving them a license," Freetown Lt. Walter Sawicki said.
That doesn't happen often, Lt. Sawicki said, although he recalled withholding a permit from a man who had been arrested in Fall River for possession of marijuana and hypodermic needles.
(Right – Massachusetts has 351 cities and towns, and the law allows the Licensing Authority (Chief) in each to make his own rules. Imagine what would happen if every town could create its own rules for drivers’ licenses. Imagine the uproar!)
Contact Rob Margetta at [email protected]
Rob – not trying to be a wise-ass here. But as a law-abiding, responsible gun owner, and certified firearms instructor, I feel the need to point out these errors. Feel free to contact me if you need any other firearms-related info, or just want to compare notes.
Best Wishes –
Ken Kennedy
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is Rob's response this evening:
Dear Mr. Kennedy:
You raise some valid points. You’re right about gun laws being confusing, considering much of that article came directly from the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety’s website, and other parts came from conversations with several police chiefs and firearms officers. I’m going to research this topic a bit more deeply in the coming week or two, but I wanted to let you know that there will be a correction in tomorrow’s paper regarding the statement that a Class B License to Carry holder can carry a concealed weapon. Thanks for reading and for writing in.
Sincerely,
Rob Margetta
Also, I’ll add you to my list of contacts to gun related stories.
-Rob Margetta
Rob:
You were way off on this one! Below is copy of your article with my corrections:
Gun licenses relatively easy to obtain in Mass.
April 01, 2007 6:00 AM
How hard is it to get a firearms license in Massachusetts? Police say not terribly, as long as you don't have a criminal record.
(In terms of time, it can take weeks or months. Some Departments require a shooting qualification course, letters of reference, notes from a physician, and other hoops to jump through)
Local police departments issue permits to any applicants who meet the base qualifications, pass a safety course and pay a $100 fee.
(There is, in fact, a long list of disqualifiers that prevent many people from obtaining a license – and rightfully so.)
There are three types of firearms licenses, each of which must be renewed every six years. All of them allow holders to purchase an unlimited number of guns, as long as they are legal firearms and fit within the holders' license restrictions.
(Actually, there are six: Restricted FID, FID, LTC B, LTC A, Non-Resident LTC, and Machine Gun License. Yes – you can possess a machine gun in Mass, but you have to be a law enforcement firearms instructor, or a “Bona Fide Collector” to qualify. And every one of those “unlimited number of guns” has to be reported to the State Criminal History Systems Board. This is the place where Massachusetts keeps track of Murderers, Rapists, Drug Pushers….. and lawful gun owners.)
A Firearms Identification Card allows for the possession of rifles and shotguns, excluding large-capacity models. (A restricted FID card is available for the possession of chemical sprays.)
All state residents have a right to an FID card unless they have been convicted of a felony, or a violent or drug offense that resulted in a sentence of more than two years in prison within the last five years.
(If you are convicted of a misdemeanor punishable by more than 2 years, you are also disqualified. What are some examples? Here is a list from Chief Ron Glidden’s Guidelines for Law Enforcement: Failure to Report a Hotel Fire, Causing Injury in a Physical Exercise Program, Larceny of Under $250 from an Elderly/Disabled Person. Yup, some real criminals in that list….)
The second and third types are Licenses to Carry, or "pistol permits," which allow for the concealed carrying of handguns.
Anyone holding a Class B permit can carry revolvers, rifles, shotguns and other non-high-capacity firearms.
(Nope – the Class B License-to-Carry doesn’t allow you to carry! That is only allowed with a Class A permit, and only if there are no restrictions on the license. The Class B license DOES allow you to have large-capacity rifles (more than 10 rounds) and shotguns (more than 5 shells), but does not allow large-capacity handguns (more than 10 rounds). This part of the law is extremely confusing because of the terminology.)
State law requires that every gun sold within Massachusetts must be fitted with a trigger lock and all guns must be stored either in a locked container or equipped with a lock that renders it inoperable.
(Actually, only large-capacity firearms must be sold with a trigger lock (see definitions above), but the gun shops generally tell you they need to sell one for a “standard-capacity” firearm, as well – more profits. There are also differing storage requirements if you are talking transport vs. your home.)
Unlike FID cards, police can withhold pistol permits at their discretion.
"It would depend on the individual's background and if there was some objection to giving them a license," Freetown Lt. Walter Sawicki said.
That doesn't happen often, Lt. Sawicki said, although he recalled withholding a permit from a man who had been arrested in Fall River for possession of marijuana and hypodermic needles.
(Right – Massachusetts has 351 cities and towns, and the law allows the Licensing Authority (Chief) in each to make his own rules. Imagine what would happen if every town could create its own rules for drivers’ licenses. Imagine the uproar!)
Contact Rob Margetta at [email protected]
Rob – not trying to be a wise-ass here. But as a law-abiding, responsible gun owner, and certified firearms instructor, I feel the need to point out these errors. Feel free to contact me if you need any other firearms-related info, or just want to compare notes.
Best Wishes –
Ken Kennedy
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is Rob's response this evening:
Dear Mr. Kennedy:
You raise some valid points. You’re right about gun laws being confusing, considering much of that article came directly from the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety’s website, and other parts came from conversations with several police chiefs and firearms officers. I’m going to research this topic a bit more deeply in the coming week or two, but I wanted to let you know that there will be a correction in tomorrow’s paper regarding the statement that a Class B License to Carry holder can carry a concealed weapon. Thanks for reading and for writing in.
Sincerely,
Rob Margetta
Also, I’ll add you to my list of contacts to gun related stories.
-Rob Margetta
USMA-82
NES Member
Tom:
I just invited him to one of our Home Firearms Safety Classes at Riverside in Hudson. Last year, Chris Sinacola from the Worcester Telegram & Gazette took us up on the offer, and thoroughly enjoyed himself.
After the class, I brought him to the range to try his hand firing my .30-40 Krag rifle. We were only on the 50 yard range, but out of 15 shots, he hit the plastic jug on the backstop at least 10 times.
Half way through, he developed this big grin, and said, "You know, I can see how you could really learn to like this!"
Ken
I just invited him to one of our Home Firearms Safety Classes at Riverside in Hudson. Last year, Chris Sinacola from the Worcester Telegram & Gazette took us up on the offer, and thoroughly enjoyed himself.
After the class, I brought him to the range to try his hand firing my .30-40 Krag rifle. We were only on the 50 yard range, but out of 15 shots, he hit the plastic jug on the backstop at least 10 times.
Half way through, he developed this big grin, and said, "You know, I can see how you could really learn to like this!"
Ken
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Have him contact Ron Glidden at Lee PD. He'll get an education, but Ron will probably want to remain anonymous if he prints any of what Ron tells him.
I'm writing from CT and can tell you that it takes a mininum of 2 months to get a non-resident license and cost me $100 a year. And, there is no "renewal" at all nor a reminder that my license is expiring. Every time I wish to have a LTC-A from MASS, I have to apply in full months ahead of time. I have to provide copies of all my certificates of class work again and provide a statement from the CSP that I have no criminal background. That cost me an additional $25. It's obvious to me that MASS would prefer that I not even submit an application. At least it's pretty much a proforma application and it goes directly to Chelsea and not through any local PDs who might not want to play.
The killer to me is the quality of the license I get. It's standard weight paper with my thumbprint and photo "laminated" with what looks like packing tape. It's really low-grade compared to the other permits and licenses I carry. But, it will keep me out of the graybar hotel if I carry over state lines. It's easy to do since I live on the border. A "C-Note" is pretty stiff. Hope you enjoy the money as I'm doing my part to fill potholes on the pike each and every year!
Rome
The killer to me is the quality of the license I get. It's standard weight paper with my thumbprint and photo "laminated" with what looks like packing tape. It's really low-grade compared to the other permits and licenses I carry. But, it will keep me out of the graybar hotel if I carry over state lines. It's easy to do since I live on the border. A "C-Note" is pretty stiff. Hope you enjoy the money as I'm doing my part to fill potholes on the pike each and every year!
Rome
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The validity of the statement in the article all depends on one's perspective of "easy". Comparing MA to some other jurisdictions does indeed make many locations in MA look "easy". Consider - NYC, NJ, parts of upstate NY, and many parts of CA including the LA area where only persons of privilege, power and influence are able to get carry permits. Or, compare to HI where carry permits exist in the law but the only issued one (to a non-sworn police employee) the last I checked - and an MD in HI I met who needed on in HI was told they are simply not issued, period.
From the perspective of people in these areas, MA "may issue" from many parts of the state does indeed look easy.
From the perspective of people in these areas, MA "may issue" from many parts of the state does indeed look easy.
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Well,there are plenty of instances of people here that are confused about the license scheme and it's easy enough to understand why a Class B License to Carry would lead one to think that one could carry with it...However, you'd like to think that a reporter would have had someone familiar fact-check- but then again,there are LEO's that don't understand MGL either.
I would mostly agree that getting a gun license is relatively easy in MA.Costly and drawn out yes,but not difficult.Getting an ALP LTC is obviously another story but if you want to look at it as how easy is it to legally own _ a gun_ in MA,it's a PITA compared to states that don't regulate longarms but is much easier than in places that even more highly regulate/disallow all firearms.In my town,the default license is Class A ALP - if one wants a lesser license then feel free to apply and you'll get that but if you apply for ALP,you will get it in exactly 4 weeks.I wish that other CLEO's understood that allowing discretion is meant to exclude people who have shown bad judgement and is not for those of us that would need to prove above and beyond that we're good citizens and " need a legitimate reason" to be able to practice what should be our right.
I would mostly agree that getting a gun license is relatively easy in MA.Costly and drawn out yes,but not difficult.Getting an ALP LTC is obviously another story but if you want to look at it as how easy is it to legally own _ a gun_ in MA,it's a PITA compared to states that don't regulate longarms but is much easier than in places that even more highly regulate/disallow all firearms.In my town,the default license is Class A ALP - if one wants a lesser license then feel free to apply and you'll get that but if you apply for ALP,you will get it in exactly 4 weeks.I wish that other CLEO's understood that allowing discretion is meant to exclude people who have shown bad judgement and is not for those of us that would need to prove above and beyond that we're good citizens and " need a legitimate reason" to be able to practice what should be our right.
Rome,
NH also issues a paper Resident CCW that isn't even laminated. They used to issue a paper license to NRs too, but changed to laminate for us.
I would hope that MA will also change the NR LTC to the new laminate system, we may have to give them time for that.
NH also issues a paper Resident CCW that isn't even laminated. They used to issue a paper license to NRs too, but changed to laminate for us.
I would hope that MA will also change the NR LTC to the new laminate system, we may have to give them time for that.
They should just give out a new driver's license with the addition of the LTC info on it or something. It would only require a small amount of space to put what you are certified to do with the license.
BAD idea. The problem is a DL gets used for more than just driving a
car... I don't need every busybody that cards me (eg at a bar) to know
that I am a gun owner... and there's other "problems with that too... being
that would essnetially change MA into a "must notify" state.
-Mike
+1 Although...I don't get carded anymore.![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
Relatively recently I was carded . . . it was a pleasant surprise and earned the waitress a larger than usual tip!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
If you pay for something with a check and they ask for your DL, you don't want the clerks knowing you own guns plus have your street address . . . not to mention that they may freak out and cause a scene.
Likewise, if you showed a DL (in MA) to a TSA Droid for ID, you may be in for "extra special treatment".
No thanks, I'll carry two cards.
