Government Ordered Destruction Of All Military Spent Brass

[Lucas McCain]

I don't believe "you are done". Ultimately, folks.....everyday common folks...will revolt against a govt. that wants to impose a Socialist/Marxist/Fascist scenario on the country as a whole. Yes, there are people who will buy into it....hook, line and sinker....especially those looking to be "taken care of"....by "Big Daddy Govt".

Yes, I do understand the differences between Socialism, Marxism and Fascism. I do not use the terms lightly.

That is the problem, we are the minority. Most people want the government to take care of them, solve all their problems and make all the decisions for them. Unfortunately people like us who are self sufficient are hopelessly outnumbered and in a "democracy" are therefore doomed to be crushed by the government and its evil plans for dominance over us. Talk of revolt is just that, talk. But how many sheeple are going to put their lives on the line for what they believe in? It disgusts me that good people with conviction have laid down their lives for what they believe in only to have these commies undermine everything that the USA used to stand for.

I am very apprehensive of what lies just over the horizon; I fear it is the end of the country as we know it. We are systematically being beaten down in not so subtle ways. We all know that the fact that the citizens of this country who choose to are armed to the teeth and willing to stand up for what we believe in. So short of an all out massacre, we are being legislated into pacification.

 

[Coyote33]

Quackenbush Air Guns

 

[calsdad]

Son of a bitch.

This looks like it is real. In my previous comments above I said it looked like I should put in my order for that brass I had been thinking of - well I was too freaking late.

I had ordered brass from www.xxxxxxxxxx.com before - and had been hemming and hawing over stocking up because when I looked at the cost of buying the brass - and then getting it reloaded - it didn't really seem to make a difference in price.

I should have gotten my head out of my ass and ordered the brass a few weeks ago and just spent the money - that little voice in my head was telling me to do it.

I checked the site this morning and looked at the prices - then I had to go out, well I just got back in and re-read thru this thread so I went to the site to put in my order and saw this:

http://www.xxxxxxxxx/brass.html

Home | Brass | Gunpowder | Projectiles | Misc | Links
Order form


Visa, MasterCard or Prepaid Order. Prices are subject to change without notice.

UPS Shipping Extra.

NOTICE
All brass listed below is subject to regulations of the military munitions list.
Consequently, this brass cannot be exported without obtaining an export
license from the U.S. Department of State.

"C" = 100 - "M" = 1000




Effective Immediately

Orders for all military brass acquired thru government auction is hereby

suspended until further notice. If recent auction purchased brass is

is declared unrestricted, all orders will be filled in order received

Mother*&^%

 

[calsdad]

Yeah - as I suspected when I read this thread this morning, the reloaders will go out of business because they won't have acess to brass for military calibers.

People in free states should call their Congressman pronto. It won't do any good for us in MA - but we should hope there is a massive outcry from people around the country in free states:

From the Georgia Arms website:
http://www.georgia-arms.com/

Attention!!



Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 and all 308 until further notice. Below is a copy of the email we recieved from Goverment Liqudiations.



"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "



This is a huge waste of taxpayer's money. The value of these products is reduced by 80% by going from a recycled product to a scrap product.

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN!!!!!!!!!



CONTINUE TO HOMEPAGE

The price of ammo is going to go thru the freaking roof...........

 

[Ray-500]

That is the problem, we are the minority. Most people want the government to take care of them, solve all their problems and make all the decisions for them. Unfortunately people like us who are self sufficient are hopelessly outnumbered and in a "democracy" are therefore doomed to be crushed by the government and its evil plans for dominance over us. Talk of revolt is just that, talk. But how many sheeple are going to put their lives on the line for what they believe in? It disgusts me that good people with conviction have laid down their lives for what they believe in only to have these commies undermine everything that the USA used to stand for.

I am very apprehensive of what lies just over the horizon; I fear it is the end of the country as we know it. We are systematically being beaten down in not so subtle ways. We all know that the fact that the citizens of this country who choose to are armed to the teeth and willing to stand up for what we believe in. So short of an all out massacre, we are being legislated into pacification.

Systematic....yes. The trend....yes. Legislated into pacification....NO! That is up to us...as individual citizens....to get these people out of office. Are we, as a nation, willing to throw away our heritage....our culture...our ideals?

Caveat: At what point do the "takers" outnumber the "producers" and "payers"? At what point do productive earners become outnumbered by leeches that will live off their efforts?

I have no answer to that "tipping point".....but I feel it WILL happen.

Going back to the original Colony....Gov. Bradford found out that Socialism does not work. He introduced his version of Capitalism and the colony then flourished. Grin, not my take....just a matter of history.

 

[calsdad]

So here is another question:

Federal XM193 that is sold commercially (to civilians) - what is the origin of that? Is it produced from once fired military brass (all the stuff I have seen uses Lake City brass) - or are they production line seconds?

If there is something really going on here - the sale of military once fired brass might be just the first step. Second step might be to prevent sale to civilians of "items originally meant for military use".

And if that happens - I will officially be getting scared.

 

[Lucas McCain]

Systematic....yes. The trend....yes. Legislated into pacification....NO! That is up to us...as individual citizens....to get these people out of office. Are we, as a nation, willing to throw away our heritage....our culture...our ideals?

That is exactly my point, short of all out anarchy in a democracy, the majority rules. WE ARE THE MINORITY. What has happened in MA with regard to 2A rights is happening all over the country. The majority are sheep who will go with the plan until they realize it is too late. Just look at how in MA the same bunch of a**h***s is continuously reelected. Kennedy, Kerry, do I need to mention more of the old boy network. Now look at the gang in Washington, more of the same. The game is rigged......

 

[Ray-500]

That is the problem, we are the minority. Most people want the government to take care of them, solve all their problems and make all the decisions for them. Unfortunately people like us who are self sufficient are hopelessly outnumbered and in a "democracy" are therefore doomed to be crushed by the government and its evil plans for dominance over us. Talk of revolt is just that, talk. But how many sheeple are going to put their lives on the line for what they believe in? It disgusts me that good people with conviction have laid down their lives for what they believe in only to have these commies undermine everything that the USA used to stand for.

I am very apprehensive of what lies just over the horizon; I fear it is the end of the country as we know it. We are systematically being beaten down in not so subtle ways. We all know that the fact that the citizens of this country who choose to are armed to the teeth and willing to stand up for what we believe in. So short of an all out massacre, we are being legislated into pacification.

Sorry to disagree...and I could be totally wrong. I do not believe that the "sheeple" will ultimately prevail. I just cannot believe that folks like myself would be willing to throw away our entire way of life and heritage.

We, as a nation, got where we are due to "impetus". Be it labor, capital investment, companies looking for a profit....etc. That is the "Hope" this country offers...the ability to do better...the IDEA of being able to succeed.

It is NOT going to be promulgated based on govt. "handouts" and a "dependence" attitude. It is the individual that is willing to work and use his/her business acumen that will stoke our economy.

Sorry, am I being too "politically incorrect" in view of the current admin.? Just don't buy into the whole "Socialism" thing.

 

[Ray-500]

So here is another question:

Federal XM193 that is sold commercially (to civilians) - what is the origin of that? Is it produced from once fired military brass (all the stuff I have seen uses Lake City brass) - or are they production line seconds?

If there is something really going on here - the sale of military once fired brass might be just the first step. Second step might be to prevent sale to civilians of "items originally meant for military use".

And if that happens - I will officially be getting scared.

Have a goodly stash of Lake City 30.06. Cannot address anyone else. You either stocked up and have it....or you don't.

 

[calsdad]

Have a goodly stash of Lake City 30.06. Cannot address anyone else. You either stocked up and have it....or you don't.

I have a pretty decent stock of all the important calibers - including a bunch of Greek 30.06 from CMP.

I think I will be putting in an order for more tonite or tomorrow. I hit my limit last year.

The thing that get's under my skin about this is that I had seriously contemplated putting in an order for a massive amount of brass a number of times over the last couple of months. I opened th Gibrass.com site - checked out the prices and never did it.

It's like my sixth sense was trying to tell me something - and I didn't listen. The next time the little f***er starts talking I am going to listen. Problem is - lately he hasn't been saying anything good.

 

[Ray-500]

That is exactly my point, short of all out anarchy in a democracy, the majority rules. WE ARE THE MINORITY. What has happened in MA with regard to 2A rights is happening all over the country. The majority are sheep who will go with the plan until they realize it is too late. Just look at how in MA the same bunch of a**h***s is continuously reelected. Kennedy, Kerry, do I need to mention more of the old boy network. Now look at the gang in Washington, more of the same. The game is rigged......

While I agree that the "game is rigged", I do not undersell the "common man". Its a question of info and education (IMHO). The "average" person is inundated with drivel from most (not all) media outlets. It is the person that can pick through the garbage and hyperbole that I would like to speak with.
IMO, this is the person with a mind....a person that will discuss actual facts instead of ideology....and have a damn good discussion...point by point....without animus.

Have not seen it so far. Any "Lefties" seem to have a pre-set agenda. No discussion needed. Cannot relate to that mindset.

 

[Lucas McCain]

Sorry to disagree...and I could be totally wrong. I do not believe that the "sheeple" will ultimately prevail. I just cannot believe that folks like myself would be willing to throw away our entire way of life and heritage.

We, as a nation, got where we are due to "impetus". Be it labor, capital investment, companies looking for a profit....etc. That is the "Hope" this country offers...the ability to do better...the IDEA of being able to succeed.

It is NOT going to be promulgated based on govt. "handouts" and a "dependence" attitude. It is the individual that is willing to work and use his/her business acumen that will stoke our economy.

Sorry, am I being too "politically incorrect" in view of the current admin.? Just don't buy into the whole "Socialism" thing.

Ray, you have every right to dissagree. You said "folks like myself". I think I understand where you are coming from based on your previous posts but most of the sheeple are not like you and me. The trend over the last decade or so (as I see it) is toward bigger more powerful government and less personal freedom. It has been a slow methodical progression toward socialism. Since the annointed one came to power, we have spent trillions of dollars to essentially undermine the capitolist system. In the good old days, if a business was run poorly, it ceased to exist and a more efficient operation moved in to take its place. Nowadays, if you f*** up and run your company into the ground, big brother is there to bail you out. This has become the prevailing mentality and unfortunately it is a cancer. The undermining of our 2A rights is analagous to the sheeple mentality. Why do I need a gun to protect myself when the government will do it for me.

Government has gotten so out of control that people have lost their bearings, the primary role of government is to protect the sovereignty of the nation. People are (or should be) capable of protecting themselves. Unfortunatley, the role of government has mutated into controlling almost every aspect of our lives.

Just imagine how pervasive and intrusive the government would be if it werent for our 2A rights. Therefore the powers that be have resorted to brainwashing the masses into believing that they do not need weapons to protect themselves, just call 911.

I for one will never allow the government to protect me from anyone, that is my responsibility as an American. I was born independant and I choose to remain that way and I believe the only thing that is preventing ever increased intrusion into my personal freedoms is the right I have to keep and bear arms.

 

[Ray-500]

I have a pretty decent stock of all the important calibers - including a bunch of Greek 30.06 from CMP.

I think I will be putting in an order for more tonite or tomorrow. I hit my limit last year.

The thing that get's under my skin about this is that I had seriously contemplated putting in an order for a massive amount of brass a number of times over the last couple of months. I opened th Gibrass.com site - checked out the prices and never did it.

It's like my sixth sense was trying to tell me something - and I didn't listen. The next time the little f***er starts talking I am going to listen. Problem is - lately he hasn't been saying anything good.

Grin, my little f***er spoke to me months ago. I listened. Even with 12 gauge and Skeet. Stocked up months ago at reasonable prices. Yup, am now in a Spring Skeet League and have enough shells to last me for years. Am not concerned about current prices. Of course, my wife is not happy with boxes of shells and other ammo taking up "space". I do believe she will get over it.

 

[Ray-500]

Ray, you have every right to dissagree. You said "folks like myself". I think I understand where you are coming from based on your previous posts but most of the sheeple are not like you and me. The trend over the last decade or so (as I see it) is toward bigger more powerful government and less personal freedom. It has been a slow methodical progression toward socialism. Since the annointed one came to power, we have spent trillions of dollars to essentially undermine the capitolist system. In the good old days, if a business was run poorly, it ceased to exist and a more efficient operation moved in to take its place. Nowadays, if you f*** up and run your company into the ground, big brother is there to bail you out. This has become the prevailing mentality and unfortunately it is a cancer. The undermining of our 2A rights is analagous to the sheeple mentality. Why do I need a gun to protect myself when the government will do it for me.

Government has gotten so out of control that people have lost their bearings, the primary role of government is to protect the sovereignty of the nation. People are (or should be) capable of protecting themselves. Unfortunatley, the role of government has mutated into controlling almost every aspect of our lives.

Just imagine how pervasive and intrusive the government would be if it werent for our 2A rights. Therefore the powers that be have resorted to brainwashing the masses into believing that they do not need weapons to protect themselves, just call 911.

I for one will never allow the government to protect me from anyone, that is my responsibility as an American. I was born independant and I choose to remain that way and I believe the only thing that is preventing ever increased intrusion into my personal freedoms is the right I have to keep and bear arms.

Mr. McCain, don't know your real name, but I agree with you wholeheartedly.
NO company is too big to fail. IMHO...Crap. Chap 11 will let them reorganize and reconstruct. Does not matter if its GM, Chrysler, or any bank. Let the market work! It does not take Trillions to just let the markets and the economy work....and regulate itself. If an entity needs to go bankrupt...so be it. Don't care how big or small....so be it.

It is govt. interference that caused this entire Sub-Prime fiasco. If the market were left to work, some folks would not qualify for mortgages. Instead, we have the interference, and the resulting debacle.

Yes, govt. has indeed gotten out of control. Are you being "represented"? Is your voice heard? Only we, as citizens can address this. Why are the same losers and scumbags voted in time after time? Promises? Handouts? Stupidity on the part of the electorate?

Have no answers....just asking questions.

Will follow my gut and training....and behave (act) accordingly.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

When my wife started to complain about all of the cases of ammo and other ammo cans starting to take up space in the garage I bought a few shipping containers, Dug a hole with my backhoe and sunk them into the ground.

I poured a foot of concrete as a pad and then later in the year I back filled the ends and sides with a foot thick wall of concrete and later formed in for the roof.

I would suggest this for everyone that wants to keep stuff that's theirs from being discovered and or made off with by unscrupulous characters.

my wife is not happy with boxes of shells and other ammo taking up "space". I do believe she will get over it.

 

[Ray-500]

When my wife started to complain about all of the cases of ammo and other ammo cans starting to take up space in the garage I bought a few shipping containers, Dug a hole with my backhoe and sunk them into the ground.

I poured a foot of concrete as a pad and then later in the year I back filled the ends and sides with a foot thick wall of concrete and later formed in for the roof.

I would suggest this for everyone that wants to keep stuff that's theirs from being discovered and or made off with by unscrupulous characters.

Grin....not everyone has a backhoe at their disposal...and not everyone has the land to do what you described. I salute your ingenuity , but it is just not possible for all folks.

 

[Lucas McCain]

When my wife started to complain about all of the cases of ammo and other ammo cans starting to take up space in the garage I bought a few shipping containers, Dug a hole with my backhoe and sunk them into the ground.

I poured a foot of concrete as a pad and then later in the year I back filled the ends and sides with a foot thick wall of concrete and later formed in for the roof.

I would suggest this for everyone that wants to keep stuff that's theirs from being discovered and or made off with by unscrupulous characters.

I have actually thought about doing the same thing with a container but never thought about the concrete. I was pondering the roof structure and you have given me a good idea. Thanks

 

[Coyote33]

Yeah - as I suspected when I read this thread this morning, the reloaders will go out of business because they won't have acess to brass for military calibers.

People in free states should call their Congressman pronto. It won't do any good for us in MA - but we should hope there is a massive outcry from people around the country in free states:

From the Georgia Arms website:
http://www.georgia-arms.com/




The price of ammo is going to go thru the freaking roof...........

Due to new government regulations

WHAT new regulations? When were these regulations passed and by who, and what exactly did they say? And, how was this missed?

 

[tele_mark]

Tinfoil hat ON--

If they dry up ammo supplies and force us all to sit on our existing ammo, then they've effectively condemned many gun clubs to oblivion.

 

[theGringo]

Tinfoil hat ON--

If they dry up ammo supplies and force us all to sit on our existing ammo, then they've effectively condemned many gun clubs to oblivion.

More to the point, they've routed the rebels altogether. Game over.

 

[Ray-500]

Tinfoil hat ON--

If they dry up ammo supplies and force us all to sit on our existing ammo, then they've effectively condemned many gun clubs to oblivion.

That, is a fight that has yet to be fought.

 

[Ray-500]

Tinfoil hat ON--

If they dry up ammo supplies and force us all to sit on our existing ammo, then they've effectively condemned many gun clubs to oblivion.

Understood. What will YOU do to prevent this from happening?

 

[calsdad]

Grin....not everyone has a backhoe at their disposal...and not everyone has the land to do what you described. I salute your ingenuity , but it is just not possible for all folks.

Yes - and my next door neighbors and female member of my household would wonder what the hell I am doing. It's only a safe place if nobody knows it's there.

 

[Ray-500]

I have a pretty decent stock of all the important calibers - including a bunch of Greek 30.06 from CMP.

I think I will be putting in an order for more tonite or tomorrow. I hit my limit last year.

The thing that get's under my skin about this is that I had seriously contemplated putting in an order for a massive amount of brass a number of times over the last couple of months. I opened th Gibrass.com site - checked out the prices and never did it.

It's like my sixth sense was trying to tell me something - and I didn't listen. The next time the little f***er starts talking I am going to listen. Problem is - lately he hasn't been saying anything good.

During this past summer, a bunch of 30.06 (Lake City) became available. Gobbled some up. My friend, sometimes you really need to listen to that little f***er.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Not a problem, We like this mode of living for a lot of reasons.

Ill tell you more via PM if you want to know to avoid taking this thread off topic any more than I already have.

I have actually thought about doing the same thing with a container but never thought about the concrete. I was pondering the roof structure and you have given me a good idea. Thanks

I guess I'm lucky as my wife understands why I do what I do and is behind me all the way.

That and I also live on a 45 acre piece of land that has tree cover on all sides.

a somewhat canopy of trees, In fact from Google earth it just looks like another part of the forest.

I dont ask my neighbors what they do on their land and they dont ask me what I do on mine.

In this part of the country we respect each others privacy.

We dont pull permits either when we work on land that we own.

sorry your neighbors and the female member of your household dont see things the same way.

Beyond that it actually wasn't meant to be a bunker or other hidden structure when I started the excavation, It just ended up more like that when we figured we have left over dirt and it just didnt blend into the landscape with the white containers and all.

Yes - and my next door neighbors and female member of my household would wonder what the hell I am doing. It's only a safe place if nobody knows it's there.

 

[Gadsden]

JPFO has more info on this, including contacts to (politely) raise hell to:
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm

 

[drgrant]

So here is another question:

Federal XM193 that is sold commercially (to civilians) - what is the origin of that? Is it produced from once fired military brass (all the stuff I have seen uses Lake City brass) - or are they production line seconds?

XM193 is usually high level factory seconds, eg, for primer sealant, etc... usually stuff that doesn't affect shootability but may affect qualifying with the mil std required. It's factory fresh ammo, that didn't pass one level of QC or another. There's also XM193PD, but that tends to be considerably more f***ed up than straight XM193 is, but even that stuff overall is decent, although there apparently are "tiers" to that stuff, too. I don't know if federal/LC lets out the really bad stuff anymore.

-Mike

 

[rewster]

Ammo Shortage Paranoia - NOT !

http://www.shootingwire.com/

This really sucks !!


regards....roger

 

[MassMark]

Here we go...

 

[SteelShooter]

Here's most of the article

No Longer Just Paranoia

For months, anyone who's proffered the position that the Obama Administration was anti-gun has been dismissed as being a variety of things, from sore loser to rampant paranoid. Nonetheless, since assuming office, members of the Obama administration have steadily- and stealthily- moved against firearms and ammunition.

Their only public blunder was Attorney General Holder's saying the "assault weapons ban" needed to be reinstated. Quickly, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi - no friend of gun owners - went on record as opposing Holder's suggestion. She went as far as to parrot the words of pro-gun groups, saying the government should enforce the laws on the books today, rather than introducing new laws.

At the same time, the State Department notified Canadian authorities of plans to issue an export ban on "military caliber ammunition" to Canada. That proposed action would prevent the sales of .223, .308 and other military calibers.

When Canadian authorities protested - and notified several members of the American media, the U.S. State Department suddenly went silent. But they quietly reinstated other rules and charges firearms exports-retroactively.

While it seemed they had been headed off on one proposal, they had actually drawn attention away from other actions. If you're into incrementalism, that translates as a win.

Anything passed brings the ultimate goal that much closer.

Last Friday, the anglers and hunters were notified that the National Park Service planned to make all lands under their control totally lead-free by 2010. No lead in ammo or fishing tackle.

As we report in today's Outdoor Wire, that decision has kicked off howls of protests - and questions about the NPS trying to usurp states' rights by issuing their unilateral decision with no prior notification. It's definitely not going to be a decision without some serious discussions. That still doesn't mean the NPS will back off on their decision.

All these things are racing along on parallel tracks. Now, many observers - and not just those on the pro-gun side of the discussion - believe the country is hurtling toward a confrontation.

The catalyst might be any one of several flashpoint issues, but both groups seem to believe a reckoning is unavoidable.

For months, I've gotten reports of everything from re-tasking of military heavy assault units for domestic violence scenarios to calls for "committees of correspondence" designed to spread news the way word was spread by citizens of the then-British colonies.

In each instance, I've discounted the reports as internet hysteria that has produced breathless notices of "the real-deal on the new assault weapon ban"- or references to HR45 - a gun registration bill that is a prime example of "eyewash legislation". It's purpose has already been achieved.

Part of that discounting has been due to the fact that hot-blooded rhetoric seems to run along with firearms ownership.

To the chagrin of industry officials, there's never a shortage of people willing to go on camera, get red-faced and spout "from my cold dead hands" phrases.

Admittedly, those people concern me, but more for their reinforcement of a negative stereotype to people who have no opinion one way or the other on firearms.

Today, however, a report that has nothing to do with rhetoric, hyperbole or rumor.

A very disturbing report that points to a very real assault on ammunition supplies.

The Department of Defense has issued a directive that bans the sale of military brass to ammunition re-manufacturers.

Without that brass, a very large dent is put into civilian ammunition supplies.

New Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS) requirements call for the "mutilation of shell casings". Mutilation, incidentally, is the destruction of the property "to the extent that prevents its reuse or reconstruction".

Government officials will determine what constitutes "sufficient mutilation" but it's safe to say that it will no longer be suitable for remanufacturing.

The first word of this latest decision came over the weekend when Georgia Arms' Larry Haynie released a letter notifying him of the new requirement.

For a company with an order in for 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, .308 and .50 BMG, that was not a pleasant notification.

Georgia Arms was remanufacturing more than one million rounds of .223 ammunition monthly; selling that ammo on the civilian market to resellers and to government agencies all over the country.

Tomorrow, Georgia Arms will start sending cancellation notices for .223 ammunition to law enforcement agencies across the United States. Haynie says he may have to layoff half of his sixty-person workforce.