Well for $60 that is probably a good idea.
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Getting a lawyer?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Well for $60 that is probably a good idea.
+1.... You want counsel that knows how to represent people
by means of self defense. A lot of "lesser" attorneys will
chinse out on this because it is simpler for them to cut a deal; you
certainly don't want one of those.
-Mike
I'd be stuck with the court appointed freebie lawyer. I could get about $5k in equity out of my home. Sell my car might generate another $5k. I might be able to swing a personal loan to cover the difference, but afterwards would have no choice but bankruptcy so that's not much of an option. I think I could swing the initial representation but if it went to trial I'd be screwed.
I'd never accept a deal. I have to be able to pass a CORI check or I won't have my job anymore. I certainly wouldn't accept anything that would prohibit me from owning firearms in the future.
I'd never accept a deal. I have to be able to pass a CORI check or I won't have my job anymore. I certainly wouldn't accept anything that would prohibit me from owning firearms in the future.
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That's very easy to say, until you are in a situation where the attorney tells you "We've been offered a no jail time deal. You'll have a record and all that entails, but your case could go either way and aquital is by no means assured. I suggest you take the deal. If you want to fight it, I'll need a another $50K added to the retainer and a few more tens of $K for expert witnesses and private investigators. Oh, by the way, if we take this to trial and you lose prison time is a virtual certainty. Go home and talk it over with your family, the deal will be open for another 3 days to give you time to decide."
I remember talking to a CA attorney handling a gun case that he would "never plead out". When I asked him about it a couple of years later, he bragged about how he got the case plead out as a misdemeanor. I reminded him of the "no plea" stance and he responded by telling me what a good deal he got his client. Perhaps he did - that's the reality.
Most people in prison are probably guilty, but if you think that the highly publicized DNA based cases are the only ones where innocents have been convicted, I have an assortment of bridges you can buy.
A number of people here have mentioned that they keep one or more lawyers cards in their wallets, or numbers on their cell phone or both.
This later is well and good if you are able to call your lawyer - AND REACH HIM (or HER) before the cops get there and take you down to the station.
But understand this. Once you are taken down to the station, you will be allowed ONE phone call that actually reaches someone. If it's a long weekend, and your lawyer is out sailing and you get his ANSWERING SERVICE, you've had your one call and you're all done. You will then sit in jail until the long weekend is over and he gets back to town.
Not only is this not a pleasant way to spend a long weekend, it can SERIOUSLY hurt your chances of winning an acquittal. One of the first things a good defense attorney will do is get a really good PI - think retired FBI Agent or Homicide Investigator - on retainer and looking for evidence that helps you. The more time that elapses between the shooting and start of your PI's investigation, the harder it becomes for him to find witnesses, evidence, etc.
So the real answer is not to call a lawyer with your one phone call, it's to call some TRUSTED OTHER. Your spouse, your brother or sister, etc. Someone you would trust with your life. Someone who is now free to fight for you, making numerous calls to numerous people if necessary, arrange bail if necessary, etc.
This person needs to be pre-briefed on where to find the necessary written information - attorneys phone numbers, bank account information, possibly a presigned power-of-attorney, whatever is needed.
Regards
John
This later is well and good if you are able to call your lawyer - AND REACH HIM (or HER) before the cops get there and take you down to the station.
But understand this. Once you are taken down to the station, you will be allowed ONE phone call that actually reaches someone. If it's a long weekend, and your lawyer is out sailing and you get his ANSWERING SERVICE, you've had your one call and you're all done. You will then sit in jail until the long weekend is over and he gets back to town.
Not only is this not a pleasant way to spend a long weekend, it can SERIOUSLY hurt your chances of winning an acquittal. One of the first things a good defense attorney will do is get a really good PI - think retired FBI Agent or Homicide Investigator - on retainer and looking for evidence that helps you. The more time that elapses between the shooting and start of your PI's investigation, the harder it becomes for him to find witnesses, evidence, etc.
So the real answer is not to call a lawyer with your one phone call, it's to call some TRUSTED OTHER. Your spouse, your brother or sister, etc. Someone you would trust with your life. Someone who is now free to fight for you, making numerous calls to numerous people if necessary, arrange bail if necessary, etc.
This person needs to be pre-briefed on where to find the necessary written information - attorneys phone numbers, bank account information, possibly a presigned power-of-attorney, whatever is needed.
Regards
John
Guys and gals, if you are interested in self-defense in Massachusetts, I'd urge you to sign up for our Art of Concealed Carry seminar. This educational experience may give the wisdom necessary to avoid a deadly encounter, and obviate the need to hire a qualified criminal defense and firearms lawyer to defend you.
In this four hour course, we'll review and discuss the lawful use of force, concealed carry methods, both good and bad, and participate in a few role play scenarios to illustrate the legal issues and practical choices we all must make, often in an instant.
The next class will be held in February. Visit www.GOAL.org for more details or call the headquarters at (508) 393-5333 if you want to sign up. Spaces go quickly, so don't delay.
Darius Arbabi
In this four hour course, we'll review and discuss the lawful use of force, concealed carry methods, both good and bad, and participate in a few role play scenarios to illustrate the legal issues and practical choices we all must make, often in an instant.
The next class will be held in February. Visit www.GOAL.org for more details or call the headquarters at (508) 393-5333 if you want to sign up. Spaces go quickly, so don't delay.
Darius Arbabi
I live in NY, so I've never taken the GOAL course. It certainly sounds like a good first step.
If you want to take the next step after that, I would recomend Ayoobs LFI I or his Judicious Use of Deadly Force course.
LFI I is 40 hours - 4 ten hour days or 5 eight hour days and is about half range work and half classroom lecture.
Judicious Use of Deadly Force is 20 hours in 2 days and is the classroom part of LFI I (The range part is also offered separatly and is called Stressfire.)
I've taken LFI I twice, about 5 years apart. The first time I took it, there was a lawyer in the class who was taking it for the second time, and had brought his wife along to take it also.
Much of the classroom work is videotapes of Ayoob lecturing. These are then followed by question and answer sessions on the subject covered.
If you are involved in a shooting, your lawyer will be able to show these video tapes to the jury as part of your defense to establish what your level of training was and why and how you knew you were facing a deadly threat that REQUIRED you to use deadly force. And just incidently, educate the twelve sheeple on your jury who are going to be judging you as to the reality of what's involved instead of the Hollywood bullshit they've seen all their lives.
This UNIQUE course is one of the best insurance policies you can have.
Mas teaches LFI I in NH several times a year, and at least once a year in CT. Judicious Use of Deadly Force is taught as there is demand for it, and since their is no range work, can be taught anywhere, in a Holiday Inn Conference room or whatever. If ten or so of you were interested, you could doubtless get Mas to offer it some weekend in a convenient place in MA.
I've done a bunch of courses over the years with a number of different instructors. They were all good, but on the subject of using Deadly Force, none of them could touch Ayoob.
Regards
John
MaverickNH
NES Member
Got the last seat in the 21Feb08 Art of CC class -lucky me.
I took LFI-I about 5yr back and a Self-Defense Law course at SIGArms Academy about 9yr back (Branca was the instructor, I believe). Not that I'm a CCW law junkie, but I think the more perspectives you can get, expecially from a practicing lawyer who you can call on when in need, the better prepared you might be when TSHTF.
And as a NH resident working in MA, I need constant reminders that the border is more than a dotted line on the map for those who carry.
I took LFI-I about 5yr back and a Self-Defense Law course at SIGArms Academy about 9yr back (Branca was the instructor, I believe). Not that I'm a CCW law junkie, but I think the more perspectives you can get, expecially from a practicing lawyer who you can call on when in need, the better prepared you might be when TSHTF.
And as a NH resident working in MA, I need constant reminders that the border is more than a dotted line on the map for those who carry.
Twigg
NES Member
I hope you also put in a reservation for the May 8th class iffin' the Feb. class stays full.
MrsTwigg is the second one on the waiting list for Feb. and I reserved her a seat for the May 8th class just in case.
I took this class last year and I'll tell ya, this is a very informative and well presented class.
When they say the seats go fast they mean it !
P-14
NES Member
Advice for Getting A Lawyer a la NEShooters LLC
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25439&highlight=neshooters+llc
There are two articles of interest by Lisa J. Steele on the website under Articles/Legal:
*Aftermath of a Shooting - Miranda http://www.neshooters.com/miranda.pdf)
*Aftermath of a Shooting - Finding and Hiring Counsel (http://www.neshooters.com/counsel.pdf)
Good reading materials!
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25439&highlight=neshooters+llc
There are two articles of interest by Lisa J. Steele on the website under Articles/Legal:
*Aftermath of a Shooting - Miranda http://www.neshooters.com/miranda.pdf)
*Aftermath of a Shooting - Finding and Hiring Counsel (http://www.neshooters.com/counsel.pdf)
Good reading materials!
JimConway
Instructor
Finding an attorney
There are 2 legal articles by Lisa Steele on the Neshooter web site, as follows:
One on the Miranda law at http://www.neshooters.com/miranda.pdf
and another that I posted today on Finding and Hiring an Attorney at http://www.neshooters.com/counsel.pdf
I think that the second article should answer your question. I suggest that the Miranda article is very important for everyone to print and read.
There are 2 legal articles by Lisa Steele on the Neshooter web site, as follows:
One on the Miranda law at http://www.neshooters.com/miranda.pdf
and another that I posted today on Finding and Hiring an Attorney at http://www.neshooters.com/counsel.pdf
I think that the second article should answer your question. I suggest that the Miranda article is very important for everyone to print and read.
Looks good in theory but that is pretty high premium for what you get. I remember a past thread about it and that was one of the main criticisms of it.
100,000 liability; civil defense, possible 50,000 criminal defense reimbursement. $165 year. (less expensive option).
That is about what I pay for a $1,000,000 umbrella liability policy and there is a hugely better chance I need that policy over the SD policy.
If it was cheaper I think I'd do it. I'd be interested to hear some more recent opinions on it though too.
Does anyone know if it was Scrivener?
While this is a common phrase thrown about, I've never seen an agency limit a detainee to one call. We routinely allowed more than one call at times. In many cases it takes more than one call to arraign someone to come up with bail money. In fact in thirty years, I've never seen anyone actually call a lawyer. That call and friend or family member but never the actual lawyer who, as it has been pointed out isn't going to be available in most cases.
Hello,
Click on the arrow located beside the name Hophead, whom you have quoted. It will bring up the original post and a link to the news article. Within the article, it states the Defense Attorney's name.
Kevin Reddington of Brockton.
Best Regards.
+100 !
The course and the instructors are well worth the tuition and the commute from Boston. If you live closer to Northboro than Boston, you'll get an even better value!
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Best Regards.
Got To See One In Action
Not to take anything away for our resident attorneys, they seem to know their trade, but I was a juror on a murder case about two years ago. I was able to see attorney Reddington in action, he was able to get twelve people to find his client not guilty. I, being an alternate juror, was stunned by the verdict.
IIRC, he also had a high profile case, involve a doctor from the Cape, go his way recently.
In my mind, he knows what it takes to get the not guilty verdict.
Kurt
Not to take anything away for our resident attorneys, they seem to know their trade, but I was a juror on a murder case about two years ago. I was able to see attorney Reddington in action, he was able to get twelve people to find his client not guilty. I, being an alternate juror, was stunned by the verdict.
IIRC, he also had a high profile case, involve a doctor from the Cape, go his way recently.
In my mind, he knows what it takes to get the not guilty verdict.
Kurt
ccm75
NES Member
Interesting subject and probably the worst nightmare for you and your family....
I think there may be some confusion between the case: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070326/NEWS/70326005
and the Ragsdale case in Shrewsbury where DA chose not to prosecute and police chief wont let it drop. Ragsdale shot LEO in his house at top of stairs on 2nd floor in the dark and claims no one announced themselves as police until after shot fired)
Which (Ragsdale's choise of Atty) raises in my opinion, an important point. I doubt there are more than a few experienced lawyers in MA who have handled a SD case. My thinking would be to go with an experienced well known criminal attorney from the county where the case is pending. Who was the guy that got the 2nd trial for Pring Wilson that resulted in a mistrial? ( Harvard student stabs local to death with "pocket knife")
If you are in western MA, you dont want a Boston attorney and vice versa. Having an attorney that is known to the court and jury pool can be a big advantage. For me in Central MA, if I get in a Jamb I am calling either the aforementioned Peter Etenberg, Lou Aloise, or James Ryan. All "heavy hitters" in this neck of the woods. Then once the dust settles I consult with NES/firearms experts and go with the one (or two) that feel right and have a track record with same kind of case and facts.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
And get ready to pay and cash out the equity on the house...
Your homeowners insurance and umbrella may not do much for you unless you "accidently" or "negligently" harmed someone. Intentional acts are specifically excluded from coverage in all policies.
I think there may be some confusion between the case: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070326/NEWS/70326005
and the Ragsdale case in Shrewsbury where DA chose not to prosecute and police chief wont let it drop. Ragsdale shot LEO in his house at top of stairs on 2nd floor in the dark and claims no one announced themselves as police until after shot fired)
Which (Ragsdale's choise of Atty) raises in my opinion, an important point. I doubt there are more than a few experienced lawyers in MA who have handled a SD case. My thinking would be to go with an experienced well known criminal attorney from the county where the case is pending. Who was the guy that got the 2nd trial for Pring Wilson that resulted in a mistrial? ( Harvard student stabs local to death with "pocket knife")
If you are in western MA, you dont want a Boston attorney and vice versa. Having an attorney that is known to the court and jury pool can be a big advantage. For me in Central MA, if I get in a Jamb I am calling either the aforementioned Peter Etenberg, Lou Aloise, or James Ryan. All "heavy hitters" in this neck of the woods. Then once the dust settles I consult with NES/firearms experts and go with the one (or two) that feel right and have a track record with same kind of case and facts.
And get ready to pay and cash out the equity on the house...
Your homeowners insurance and umbrella may not do much for you unless you "accidently" or "negligently" harmed someone. Intentional acts are specifically excluded from coverage in all policies.
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