FPC Challenge to MA Handgun Roster

[Coyote33]

Tombstone's ordinance provided permits to residents. It was effectively an ordinance against transient non-residents that didn't have regular business in town.

Isn't this what Massachusetts does with non-residents now? Only now, they go a step further and allow non-resident permits.

 

[JFR2]

I'm wondering if the rosters get ruled unconstitutional, will Mass do a Bruen-response bill, a la NY and NJ? And then we're really screwed.

-JR

 

[pastera]

While it's obvious that the number of gun laws exploded after the civil war to keep black people from owning guns, I don't think it's accurate to say "a single gun law". e.g.: There were laws to prevent American Indians from having guns from the very beginning (clearly racist) and laws in places like Tombstone in the 1880s against carrying guns (more likely public safety).

In any case, it's probably not a great argument to say there weren't *any* laws, 'cuz it's so easily disprovable.

What can be said is there was no Tradition of laws.
And Tombstone in the 1880's was a territory and therfore specifically exempted from inclusion in the traditional record.

 

[Waher]

But none the less, that law, which existed ad a law, is evidence of licensing.

It existed for approximately two years before it was repealed for not being in line with Arizona law.

 

[milktree]

It existed for approximately two years before it was repealed for not being in line with Arizona law.

This requires some explanation, as @pastera points out Arizona wasn’t a state, so do you mean Arizona territory?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Meh, gun broker, transfer at FLL.

No need to deal with a local marking it up X% because he has 10 in stock and 30 people waiting.

Prices will still be at a premium well above what would be paid but for the 1986 ban. Do you really think dealers are going to let full auto AR's go for a mere $500 premium (not including tax stamp) over the current $20K+ price? There will be years of pent up demand to satisfy; then prices may recede a bit more - but you are not going to beat the added margin over a semi auto by using gun broker.

Hopefully some startups would get into the autosear and 3 pin lower business.

 

[Joeldiaz]

I'm wondering if the rosters get ruled unconstitutional, will Mass do a Bruen-response bill, a la NY and NJ? And then we're really screwed.

-JR

News flash, they’re already working on a Bruen response bill. The MA legislature is currently conducting a state wide gun law “listening tour.” They’re making multiple stops to talk to constituents about possible gaps in our gun laws in preparation of their new huge omnibus gun bill.

 

[Broc]

Prices will still be at a premium well above what would be paid but for the 1986 ban. Do you really think dealers are going to let full auto AR's go for a mere $500 premium (not including tax stamp) over the current $20K+ price? There will be years of pent up demand to satisfy; then prices may recede a bit more - but you are not going to beat the added margin over a semi auto by using gun broker.

Hopefully some startups would get into the autosear and 3 pin lower business.

Full auto?
I missed that part, I was talking about average "currnetly not on the list" guns.

 

[Broc]

I'm wondering if the rosters get ruled unconstitutional, will Mass do a Bruen-response bill, a la NY and NJ? And then we're really screwed.

-JR

Didn't that get shut down?

I am a little lost, so much happened.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Full auto?
I missed that part, I was talking about average "currnetly not on the list" guns.

I guess I got sidetracked - I was referring to what would happen if the ban on accepting MG Form 1's was struck down.

 

[Broc]

I guess I got sidetracked - I was referring to what would happen if the ban on accepting MG Form 1's was struck down.

That would be amazing.

 

[APFSDS]

Some info on the Omnibus bill (scant though it is):

Details 'in the air' but House committed to gun bill

BOSTON — Two days after news of another mass shooting rocked the nation, this time in Nashville, Massachusetts lawmakers renewed their commitment to passing an omnibus gun bill this session.

“While Massachusetts remains among one of the safest states regarding violence, such violence continues to make headlines, and I am committed to do something about that,” said Senate Majority Leader Cynthia Creem.

Creem said the Legislature will focus on ghost guns, reducing violence through a public health lens by investing in community programs, and making Massachusetts a leader in the collection and analysis of gun data and research.

article continues....

So probably a ban on, or at least requirement to serialize, "ghost guns," and who know WTF the rest of that gobbledygook means. Probably feel-good programs that do nothing except give someone's cousin a job.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Prices will still be at a premium well above what would be paid but for the 1986 ban. Do you really think dealers are going to let full auto AR's go for a mere $500 premium (not including tax stamp) over the current $20K+ price? There will be years of pent up demand to satisfy; then prices may recede a bit more - but you are not going to beat the added margin over a semi auto by using gun broker.

Hopefully some startups would get into the autosear and 3 pin lower business.

At least in the AR market, I'd bet that every company that currently sells stripped lowers will switch their CNC program to include the third hole overnight. PSA would sell a meme version with engraving pointing at that hole. Jigs with just the 3rd hole could be sold/3D-printed quickly and easily, so conversions would be accessible. Heck, I'm sure there are gunsmiths that could make a cozy hustle just adding that hole.

I see the biggest delay in trigger groups. Even there, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that half the cassette trigger companies have made FA versions for internal testing; I know I would if I were in their shoes. Adding a SKU to their website, and offering it at Midway/Brownells would probably take less than an afternoon. If we had any reason to think it was coming, the hold up would become machine time.

 

[pastera]

I'm wondering if the rosters get ruled unconstitutional, will Mass do a Bruen-response bill, a la NY and NJ? And then we're really screwed.

-JR

I doubt it - if they make a big fuss then more people will be informed of the change.

 

[pastera]

Some info on the Omnibus bill (scant though it is):

Details 'in the air' but House committed to gun bill

BOSTON — Two days after news of another mass shooting rocked the nation, this time in Nashville, Massachusetts lawmakers renewed their commitment to passing an omnibus gun bill this session.

“While Massachusetts remains among one of the safest states regarding violence, such violence continues to make headlines, and I am committed to do something about that,” said Senate Majority Leader Cynthia Creem.

Creem said the Legislature will focus on ghost guns, reducing violence through a public health lens by investing in community programs, and making Massachusetts a leader in the collection and analysis of gun data and research.

article continues....

So probably a ban on, or at least requirement to serialize, "ghost guns," and who know WTF the rest of that gobbledygook means. Probably feel-good programs that do nothing except give someone's cousin a job.

They know they have to walk a thin line in order to keep the cases local - If Mass goes maximum retard (already is full) then SCOTUS will pick up the case.
Look at Alito's dissent (Thomas concurring) in  Antonyuk
If another state F'ks around, the conservatives on SCOTUS are ready for them to find out. Piss them off enough a d we might see a very clear striking of all licensing and restrictions on time,place and manner of carry.

 

[drgrant]

While it's obvious that the number of gun laws exploded after the civil war to keep black people from owning guns, I don't think it's accurate to say "a single gun law". e.g.: There were laws to prevent American Indians from having guns from the very beginning (clearly racist) and laws in places like Tombstone in the 1880s against carrying guns (more likely public safety).

In any case, it's probably not a great argument to say there weren't *any* laws, 'cuz it's so easily disprovable.

Yeah, its definitely been a long marinating train of malaise. Not to mention the faggotry against concealed hamdguns probably also predates the 1900s, too.

 

[Coyote33]

Full auto?
I missed that part, I was talking about average "currnetly not on the list" guns.

Yeah, same.

I guess I got sidetracked - I was referring to what would happen if the ban on accepting MG Form 1's was struck down.

There was (is) a ban on MG Form 1's? Is that a machine gun license? Or does it have to do with purchase? Did not know there was a ban like this.

They know they have to walk a thin line in order to keep the cases local - If Mass goes maximum retard (already is full) then SCOTUS will pick up the case.
Look at Alito's dissent (Thomas concurring) in Antonyuk.
If another state F'ks around, the conservatives on SCOTUS are ready for them to find out. Piss them off enough a d we might see a very clear striking of all licensing and restrictions on time,place and manner of carry.

Wait, is this the person who says just wait a few years, and things will get sorted out? Meanwhile, reality has new laws coming down the pipe, picking up speed. Time for a reality check.

 

[Mesatchornug]

There was (is) a ban on MG Form 1's? Is that a machine gun license? Or does it have to do with purchase? Did not know there was a ban like this.

Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm (ATF Form 5320.1) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov

New machine guns have been illegal since 1986 for private citizens. He's basically saying that, if the registry reopened, they'd be overwhelmed with applications.

Wait, is this the person who says just wait a few years, and things will get sorted out? Meanwhile, reality has new laws coming down the pipe, picking up speed. Time for a reality check.

 

[pastera]

Wait, is this the person who says just wait a few years, and things will get sorted out? Meanwhile, reality has new laws coming down the pipe, picking up speed. Time for a reality check.

Why do you reply?
You don't read the actual decisions
You don't watch the relevant LawTuber lawyers.
You have nothing to contribute but uniformed contrarian drivel.

I linked the Antonyuk application refusal which was one sentence by Sotomayor but includes a clear statement from Alito showing the court definitively agrees with the district court's issuance of an injunction AND offers to take up the issue if the inferior courts delay explination or relief.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yeah, same.


There was (is) a ban on MG Form 1's? Is that a machine gun license? Or does it have to do with purchase? Did not know there was a ban like this.



Wait, is this the person who says just wait a few years, and things will get sorted out? Meanwhile, reality has new laws coming down the pipe, picking up speed. Time for a reality check.

The ban was on the processing of any civilian transfer of a machine gun made after May 19, 1986. It was the "Hughes Ammendment" passed on a questionable voice vote. Form 1s are still accepted for SBRs, AOWs, DDs and cans.

 

[Joeldiaz]

I linked the Antonyuk application refusal

you didn’t actually, your link was broken. Might want to fix that.

 

[pastera]

you didn’t actually, your link was broken. Might want to fix that.

On my phone so hard to check

Fixed the link but not a hard task to C&P a name into google.

22A557 Antonyuk v. Nigrelli (01/11/2023) - Supreme Court https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22a557_0pm1.pdf

 

[Coyote33]

Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm (ATF Form 5320.1) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov

New machine guns have been illegal since 1986 for private citizens. He's basically saying that, if the registry reopened, they'd be overwhelmed with applications.


View attachment 740899

Thanks. I don't follow machine gun stuff. I thought this whole post was about Massachusetts' handgun roster, and somehow machine gun licensing or maybe a machine gun roster crept into it. Appreciate the info.

Why do you reply?
You don't read the actual decisions

They are not in basic English most of the time.

You don't watch the relevant LawTuber lawyers.

They suck.

You have nothing to contribute but uniformed contrarian drivel.

"Contrarian drivel"? You mean, "someone disagrees with you"? Sorry/not sorry.

I linked the Antonyuk application refusal which was one sentence by Sotomayor but includes a clear statement from Alito showing the court definitively agrees with the district court's issuance of an injunction AND offers to take up the issue if the inferior courts delay explination or relief.

A whole lot of hot air right here with not much meaning or impact on the ground in Massachusetts. Again sorry/not sorry.

 

[drgrant]

Why do you reply?
You don't read the actual decisions
You don't watch the relevant LawTuber lawyers.
You have nothing to contribute but uniformed contrarian drivel.

I linked the Antonyuk application refusal which was one sentence by Sotomayor but includes a clear statement from Alito showing the court definitively agrees with the district court's issuance of an injunction AND offers to take up the issue if the inferior courts delay explination or relief.

Well..... Somebodys gotta play Beatrice......


View: https://youtu.be/DFQcaBRongE

 

[pastera]

Thanks. I don't follow machine gun stuff. I thought this whole post was about Massachusetts' handgun roster, and somehow machine gun license or maybe a machine gun roster crept into it. Appreciate the info.

Yes, a side conversation came in that blurred because people responded to both topics in single posts

They are not in basic English most of the time.

Agree but it only takes reading a handful of decisions to get a good understanding.
Also, Thomas writes in a very straightforward manner so the difficulty is in the standard formatting of the opinions. Again easy to overcome with studying a handful of cases.

They suck.

Why? Because you want a 20 second yes or no answer to a complex problem?
Or is it because they don't qualify to present the weather to the NES leg humper club.

Contrarian drivel"? You mean, "someone disagrees with you"? Sorry/not sorry.



A whole lot of hot air right here with not much meaning or impact on the ground in Massachusetts. Again sorry/not sorry.

How about presenting a counter argument like an adult. You don't add to the conversation you disagree with.
The predictions many of us have made since Bruen (and myself since Caetano) have been building among the lower courts and are becoming inevitable.
We have stated what we believe the path will be and that path is mostly being followed.
You believe we are wrong so present your case as to how the state(s) will escape the narrow road of Text, History and Tradition.
The timeline is all that is in question

 

[Coyote33]

Heck, I came in from a nice day outside, checked a few things, made a comment and left. I'm not getting past scratching the surface on anything today. Lighten up, Francis.

 

[pastera]

Would current machine gun owners be rejoicing or grieving if there were a decision requiring the ATF to accept registration applications for new guns?

I see this as a best case in any foreseeable future.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Some info on the Omnibus bill (scant though it is):

Details 'in the air' but House committed to gun bill

BOSTON — Two days after news of another mass shooting rocked the nation, this time in Nashville, Massachusetts lawmakers renewed their commitment to passing an omnibus gun bill this session.

“While Massachusetts remains among one of the safest states regarding violence, such violence continues to make headlines, and I am committed to do something about that,” said Senate Majority Leader Cynthia Creem.

Creem said the Legislature will focus on ghost guns, reducing violence through a public health lens by investing in community programs, and making Massachusetts a leader in the collection and analysis of gun data and research.

article continues....

So probably a ban on, or at least requirement to serialize, "ghost guns," and who know WTF the rest of that gobbledygook means. Probably feel-good programs that do nothing except give someone's cousin a job.

Coincidentally, the trans recently caught planning to shoot up a school and local Christian churches (busted on a domestic call before being able to act), had 3D “ghost gun” blueprints and no other weapons.

Seems to me the feds had she/he/it prepped to make “ghost gun” headlines with some killin when the local PD busted up the party.

 

[pastera]

Coincidentally, the trans recently caught planning to shoot up a school and local Christian churches (busted on a domestic call before being able to act), had 3D “ghost gun” blueprints and no other weapons.

Seems to me the feds had she/he/it prepped to make “ghost gun” headlines with some killin when the local PD busted up the party.

Yeah, I see some afterglow on the operation.

 

[Palladin]

I think so. "Investment" in Glocks was always a Massachusetts thang. What other plastic gun could you pay a premium for and actually have it hold it's full inflated purchase price over time? And let's not even mention the super-insane prices people have paid for pre-ban Glock magazines. Yikes!!!

If that is ending, Glock investors are soooo screwed!

Think deli ticket emporium