For the love of all that's good and decent, PLEASE lock your doors when you're home.

potentially honest ?WTF kind of term is that ?If I pull up to an intersection with my window down or door unlocked and I get carjacked, I'm culpable ? If I don't get to the polls early and a potentially honest person votes in my name am I culpable ? The criminal has all the blame for criminal acts ,temptation has never been an excuse and never should be. To excuse bad behavior because a victim didn't adequately (which is a matter of opinion)prevent the crime is asinine.

DONE
 
Yup, done, you don't get it.

It's a matter of personal responsibility.

Don't leave something of value unsecured and then get mad, you did it to yourself. You're an adult, and you know better.
 
davemata said:
typo?

Simply put, we are all responsible to be the "first responders" to an emergency situation at our homes if we're there. Not locking a door in this day and age is just full retard. So yeah, in this case, Tim L, the victim has culpability if they left their damn door open.
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Failing to lock up your stuff is not akin to culpability. Is I already posted, it isn't smart, but that a world apart from placing blame for a crime on the victim as you are.

Wrong... Bat guy is bad. What you are saying is that anyone who gets mugged "has culpability" for failing to not walk there, failing to not look like a mark failing to go all Charles Bronson, etc...

Crime is committed by criminals. The is no doubt that many/most seek easy victims, so it is in your bet interest to not be one of those, but if you are not actively provoking a response, then you are not to blame for the crime. That falls on the criminal and their parents.
 
davemata said:
Don't leave something of value unsecured and then get mad, you did it to yourself. You're an adult, and you know better.
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See above, nope...

... Also no one is perfect. I can virtually guarantee at some point you will screw up and leave something unlocked with the best of intentions. Front door, car door, etc... You get distracted, loved one needs to be rushed to the ER for stitches, etc...

If it hasnt happened, you either did not realize it, have been lucky up to this point or are lying.
 
davemata said:
Yup, done, you don't get it.

It's a matter of personal responsibility.

Don't leave something of value unsecured and then get mad, you did it to yourself. You're an adult, and you know better.
Click to expand...

WOW. Dude you really need to get your **** straight. That is quite possibly one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on NES and that is saying a lot. I agree about personal responsibility but Tim L has the right idea.
 
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I have a bike, I leave it unattended leaning against a sign. Which is reckless, and retarded since it is generally accepted that unattended bicycles get lifted.

Who is at fault when I return and my bike is gone?

The person who stole, and me for making it easy for them. If I had used a hardened mini-u lock, and they still lifted it, I had been responsible in my attempt to secure my belongings.

It's not shifting the blame, it's saying be responsible for your stuff.
 
30Mauser said:
Okay, so I'm pretty sure we all agree that one must not mess with another person's stuff, whether it's locked up or not, and we should keep our home and valuables secured.

Thank you for the public service announcement, can we close this thread now?
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Thank you future junior mod.
 
cstockwell said:
WOW. Dude you really need to get your **** straight. That is quite possibly one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on NES and that is saying a lot. I agree about personal responsibility but Tim L has the right idea.
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If being responsible for making sure your stuff isn't easily lifted is a difficult concept, you need to pull your head out. Seriously.
 
Isn't easily lifted, so there are degrees of responsibility ? If a person can only afford a cheap lock it's their own fault if a criminal takes their stuff ? Should we give a criminal a pass if being in that profession he can easily steal a car or pick a lock .Who decides "adequate precautions"? Is a sign that says please don't steal my bike adequate ?Once again slowly, If you steal something ,you and you alone own the blame. I can't even imagine a court system full of lawers debating "adequate responsibility".If I can easily walk in to your house and the wife is in the shower can I have my way because she didn't take responsibilty to put a vault lock on the bathroom.You should pull your head out, the lack of oxygen is affecting your judgement.
 
And with the sheer numbers of folks that are unemployed and passed receiving a government check, in other words, no income, the amount of crime is going up. Many a person is getting desperate and not for their next fix, just a meal. This is going to continue to get worse, people are broke and getting broker. Home invasions/thefts are up an astonishing 20% in our tri-town area here in CT., fortunately most are when no one is at home, but that is sheer luck. You only read and hear of the highlights when bad goes worse. Just go down to your PD and read the blotter, you'll shit your pants. Locks, lights, dogs and open carry. I'll make the call to the coroners office to come pick up the perp.
 
You know, you made me see the light. I'm going to open my safe right now and put the contents on my dinner table to make sure it's easily seen through the window. Unlock all doors and windows and go on a long trip. During this trip I'll leave jewelry and electronics in plain sight in my jeep.

It won't be stolen right? Although if it is, like the rappers say, "it ain't my fault."

What a load of horse crap.

I'll chalk this one up to West coast v. East coast. The concept of securing possessions may not have made it out here yet.
 
I don't argue that. Hell, I even agree with you to a point. I'm just tempering my agreement with you with an understanding of how things work. You work hard for something nice, you get it. Those who don't have it may want it. If you don't take some minor steps to protect it while unattended you may become a victim of an opportunistic thief. (Theft in this case, home invader with a machete, firebomb throwing clown, whatever.)

It really sucks we even have to have to have this discussion, but I don't live in Mayberry. You may. The reality I live with is: If you have something nice, put it away when you're done with it, and lock it if it has value and a thief may want it. I keep my bike locked, my jeep locked, and my safe locked. If I fail at locking something of value up, and it grows legs, well... I failed at being a responsible owner.

Hell though, you're free to lock up your stuff or not, just don't expect sympathy if it gets stolen because it wasn't appropriately secured.
 
I understand that you want the things you value to be secured."Appropriatey secured" is in the eye of the beholder and if some one steals that which you hold dear(in the case of the OP) The home owner is not culpable in the crime because of the degree of difficulty the thief encountered to get it.I carry a gun to protect my family and myself, my neighbor may not.If he is walking his family down on main street for an ice cream and a man runs up ,stabs him and takes his wallet,he is not culpable.He is a citizen following in his pursuit of happiness without malice or criminal thought, he is the victim. We can debate all day whether he should have armed himself but he is under no legal obligation to do so.He is not culpable.
 
My back door is unlocked right now. Come on over, we'll put on the coffee! "Davemata" must not have cats or kids. I cannot imagine living my life behind locked doors all the time.
 
davemata said:
If being responsible for making sure your stuff isn't easily lifted is a difficult concept, you need to pull your head out. Seriously.
Click to expand...

You are clearly a libtard. I can't believe you even can keep typing this crap without thinking. OH YES you are correct the victim is clearly responsible for ALL the wrongdoings of the criminals. Please turn in your balls, your firearms and join the ranks of the rest of the Mass libtards.
 
Dave if you want to spread some blame around, before you blame the victim, you should look at those who espouse and elect those who further policies of blaming the victim instead of the criminal and punishing them accordingly.

As a result of those policies we have created a criminal mill that starts training antisocial behavior during youth and reinforcing the idea that it is society's fault they are thugs.

Progressives have been on a push in the past few years to drive more and more people into the cities citing all these wonderful benefits of, even forced, urbanization, but they ignore the impact on freedom and perhaps more importantly the rise of antisocial behavior bred in cities that brings people to your sad line of thinking.

No one makes the thug steal your bike. The real question is what is it about our liberal systems that suggests to him that the risk is worth it? The answer is almost everything...

P.s. so, I guess you are right, it is your fault he stole your bike... [laugh]
 
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davemata said:
typo?
Click to expand...

Whoops. Yup, typo.
Tim L said:
Locking doors keeps honest folks out but it is not a crime deterent.
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Absolutely wrong.

You assume that every criminal is determined hell or high water to attack the target of their choosing. While that may be true in some situations where a house or car is cased and the break in is long planned, to apply it as a general rule just not in line with reality. Again, the reality is that most property crimes are crimes of oppurtunity--the criminal makes balances what will yeild the greatest amount of reward for the least amount of risk of getting caught. Here's one: Opening unlocked doors instead of causing noise and leaving potential evidence by forced entry.

I can't count the number of times I've responded to a rash of break-ins to a neighborhood where only unsecured, unlocked targets were victims. The reason is that there were more than enough unsecured targets available to keep the theives busy without having to resort to smashing windows or prying doors. Why bother doing that if you don't have to? I've also seen and heard of the "CSI effect" weighing on these decisions; for example, a criminal unwilling to smash a window for fear he might get cut and leave blood at the scene.

While I don't blame or hold accountable victims in such circumstances, sometimes you do wonder what happened to common sense of the guy who reports he left his $1,500 work laptop on the passenger seat of an unlocked car in a neighborhood where break-ins have been frequent.

It's when the government steps in and affirmatively punishes these things (ex. victim of a break-in whose secured firearms get stoled has his LTC revoked) where I have an issue. Placing culpability upon victims has no place in the law, but I think it has every place in making your own personal judgments as to how complacent or naive someone is to the reality of the dangers in society.
Tim L said:
So a woman in a bikini at the beach earns a rape ? Bullshit.
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In the vast majority of cases, rape is a crime committed to assert power, not to exact a sexual desire. I highly doubt that those stories we seem to hear once a year or so of some parolee breaking into a home and raping an 88 year-old woman are motivated by an unsatiable desire to mate with the most attractive members of the species.
 
Coyote33 said:
My back door is unlocked right now. Come on over, we'll put on the coffee! "Davemata" must not have cats or kids. I cannot imagine living my life behind locked doors all the time.
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I have cats and kids and all my doors are locked 100% of the time.

I'm not sure what you find so hard to imagine about life "behind locked doors all the time". I come and go into and out of my house as I please.

Your hyperbole is beyond dumb.
 
Bill Nance said:
I got this link from Jay G's blog:



link

Just thought I'd mention:

Last spring we had a robbery by a two-bit, previously non-violent punk that turned deadly. I'm familiar enough with the case to know that this was a chance affair. This guy didn't plan on confronting anyone. He got inside through an UNLOCKED SIDE DOOR and was surprised when he stumbled upon the homeowner. He panicked and killed him with a nearby blunt instrument, and in further panic went on to kill the other two people in the house.

Not in any way excusing his actions. He's getting life w/o parole and only escaped the death penalty because the case was too weak for it. But ALL THREE of those people would probably be alive today if they had locked their damned door. This was not planned to be a home invasion. It was sloppy security meets really bad luck.

Just a thought.

-Bill
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Head count and lock it, Everyone carries in the house. Someone wants in they have to sledge hammer their way in. Then they get to meet the armed residents. The doors are locked for the protection of the person that wants to illegally enter.
 
If it were not for the cold, the door would be open. There is a brief window in spring and fall when it is warm enough to leave the doors open and there are no bugs. I enjoy that.
 
davemata said:
So yeah, in this case, Tim L, the victim has culpability if they left their damn door open.
Click to expand...
They don't bear any culpability. But they are dumbasses for not hardening their property.

To all of you who love to live with the doors unlocked: yep, you are a dumbass. Crime exists. Deal with it or pretend that it doesn't.
 
Coyote33 said:
If it were not for the cold, the door would be open. There is a brief window in spring and fall when it is warm enough to leave the doors open and there are no bugs. I enjoy that.
Click to expand...

I do have my doors open sometimes during spring and fall. In those occasions, I am carrying. And the door gets closed and locked if I move to a part of the house where I can no longer observe it.

There is crime in the world and sometimes it finds you. Yes, it doesn't happen often. But I am not willing to play the game of probability when the stakes are my wife and daughter.

You do whatever you want. Don't make no difference to me.
 
Jose said:
I do have my doors open sometimes during spring and fall. In those occasions, I am carrying. And the door gets closed and locked if I move to a part of the house where I can no longer observe it.

There is crime in the world and sometimes it finds you. Yes, it doesn't happen often. But I am not willing to play the game of probability when the stakes are my wife and daughter.

You do whatever you want. Don't make no difference to me.
Click to expand...
Every situation is potentially different. Dogs, no dogs, barking dogs, quiet dogs, home alone, carrying at home, etc... You don't need to live in fear, just understand the implications of your actions and act accordingly...

It is still the thug's fault. Though Dave shares some culpability for coddling him... [laugh]
 

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