Flying with Handguns

[ASHDUMP]

One other thing about NY, according to their state law (which I realize is in conflict with FOPA), it's illegal for an out of state resident to transport a gun through the state unless they hold a NY permit or are going to a competition.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf

If he's coming back from MO to MA, he'll be driving through.

It also says this in parenthesise -

(A provision of federal law
provides a defense to state or local laws which would
prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate
travel if the person is traveling from any place where he
may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other
place where he may lawfully possess and transport such
firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In
vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in
a locked container other than the glove compartment or
console)

 

[PaulD]

It also says this in parenthesise -

(A provision of federal law
provides a defense to state or local laws which would
prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate
travel if the person is traveling from any place where he
may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other
place where he may lawfully possess and transport such
firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In
vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in
a locked container other than the glove compartment or
console)

Yes, it provides a defense. However, that won't prevent the state trooper from arresting you. I agree that the NY law is BS but I only posted that as a warning of what you might have to deal with. It's the letter of the NY law.

 

[ASHDUMP]

Yes, it provides a defense. However, that won't prevent the state trooper from arresting you. I agree that the NY law is BS but I only posted that as a warning of what you might have to deal with. It's the letter of the NY law.

Yeah, I hear ya and thanks for the tidbit. I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Is it in defense of the gun holder who is transporting? Or in defense of the NY state law?

 

[Cabinetman]

The real issue here, fellas, is theoretical practice over experienced practice. Sure, FOPA covers you. Do you want to deal with all the crap that hits the fan however? Sure, I'm going to publicly admit that I've been "guilty" of burying a properly locked handgun in all my camping gear when I've traveled through NY figuring that if they get down to that level of inspection, my stuff is shrewn across the interstate because I got leveled by a big scary truck. Barring that, I traveled quietly from origin to destination, legal at both ends.

Hey, the bad guys do it with their "piece" stuffed in their pants.

Not one of us here want to incur the wrath of some idiot wearing a white shirt with logos on the shoulders who is having a bad day. We don't want to be paying lawyers or lose our expensive toys or, more importantly, the ability to buy and own them. That's why we discuss all this to death and cover as many scenarios as possible. At this point there's hardly an excuse for any legal minded shooter having a bad travel experience because so much as been said in these forums.

Funny how different states approach firearm in luggage. Alaska? If you don't have a gun in your luggage or rifles in a case you're looked at suspiciously! In New England? You're probably computer profiled against mug shots of every known mafia guy as they check your luggage.

In Hartford, I stood there while the TSA opened and checked my .45 in front of about 60 other passengers waiting in line next to me. You should have seen their collective eyes as they all leaned closer to get a good look! You could see them all whispering to each other, too. I would have loved to have known what their conversations were.

Rome

 

[PaulD]

Yeah, I hear ya and thanks for the tidbit. I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Is it in defense of the gun holder who is transporting? Or in defense of the NY state law?

IANAL but I read the NRA's statement that NY has a stupid law and if you're arrested for it, you can use FOPA as a defense. in other words, the NY trooper will only care about NY law and your lawyer will have to apply federal law. Cabinetman has some good points also.

It might be worth a call to the NY State Police to see what they generally do in these cases.

 

[Cabinetman]

FYI, State laws trump Federal Laws most of the time. States are individual entities that make up their own rules. They are not supposed to curtail or limit rights as outlined in the Constitution. For instance they can't limit your access to free speech. They sue as hell, however, curtail your access to the 2nd amendment rights, don't they? If federal laws trumped State laws, we wouldn't have this hodge-podge of regulations state by state.

We are a nation of individual states, each with their own set of rules. Even marriage is different in some states than others.

So, while FOPA can be argued, NY troopers will throw you in the slammer and leave it for the lawyers to figure out. Great way to spend part, if not all, of your vacation.

The Federal Government is supposed to have very limited power to trump State authority. This is one of the problems we're having today: Feds assuming power over things they have no right to assume. In the Federalist Papers, it was enumerated that whatever power wasn't specifically given to the Federal Government went to the States. That being said, ALL states have to accept every other state's driving licenses. That's because it falls under part of the interstate commerce rules. That same arguement has been made about firearms licences without success to date. Even my C&R license can be curtailed by my local state. Many states, like New Jersey, hardly even recognize that Federally Issued License.

Rome

 

[ASHDUMP]

FYI, State laws trump Federal Laws most of the time. States are individual entities that make up their own rules. They are not supposed to curtail or limit rights as outlined in the Constitution. For instance they can't limit your access to free speech. They sue as hell, however, curtail your access to the 2nd amendment rights, don't they? If federal laws trumped State laws, we wouldn't have this hodge-podge of regulations state by state.

We are a nation of individual states, each with their own set of rules. Even marriage is different in some states than others.

So, while FOPA can be argued, NY troopers will throw you in the slammer and leave it for the lawyers to figure out. Great way to spend part, if not all, of your vacation.

The Federal Government is supposed to have very limited power to trump State authority. This is one of the problems we're having today: Feds assuming power over things they have no right to assume. In the Federalist Papers, it was enumerated that whatever power wasn't specifically given to the Federal Government went to the States. That being said, ALL states have to accept every other state's driving licenses. That's because it falls under part of the interstate commerce rules. That same arguement has been made about firearms licences without success to date. Even my C&R license can be curtailed by my local state. Many states, like New Jersey, hardly even recognize that Federally Issued License.

Rome

Understood.

What would you do if you were driving to visit a family member or friend in a friendly state but you had to drive through NY? Would you do it? Just wondering...

I think I will take a chance on this state and bring my handgun. By that time I'll be almost home and willing to take a chance.

 

[Cabinetman]

Simple. As long as I was permitted in the end state, I would have no problem burying a handgun locked in my trunk under all my luggage or supplies. The exposure to being searched is remote and even if I was, I would simply explain to the officer that I was peaceably driving through his state under the FOPA rules to a state where I could have my handgun for sporting purposes such as camping or whatever.

This "exposure" is well below handing my luggage containing a handgun at JFK or Logan, however. FOPA does give you a leg to stand on and chances of having to deal with major issues while driving aimably on the interstate is nill unless I'm going 85 in a red Mustang. I'm not a criminal and do have the credentials on both ends. So, there's nothing stopping me from doing that as I have in the past. Still, NY feels they are special and if the cop wants to give you a real time of it you're in for a long day. Just keep your wits about you and follow the rules.

I do the same thing when I head up to VT or NH from CT. I have to drive the full width of MA and simply lock my handgun in a hard case and put it in the trunk along with my overnight bag. No harm no foul.

Rome

 

[ASHDUMP]

UPDATE -

Well I've got my new car and I'm at a SUPER8 Motel off the highway somewhere in IL.

I didn't bring my gun but wish I did. I can't wait to get the hell out of this Motel. I don't like sleeping without it!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you get yourself lost in a crowd of one, rather than standing out like a turd in the punchbowl, 99% of your travels will be incident free. I've been in cars stopped in NY (once by the NY troopers) where the driver was stupid enough to answer "pistol match" rather than "vacationing" when asked why we were in NY - both times were uneventful, and the officers were aware of the match exemption in 265.20-13b. That is not to say there cannot be problems, especially in and near NYC, and this involved the state, rather than federal exemption, so in other words - you mileage may vary.

 

[KMaurer]

Even in NY, the only place I've heard any reports of chronic problems are the NYC area airports policed by the Port Authority Police, and the Albany airport, where the local DA was trying to make a name for himself (probably so he could get in on some of the better graft available to state officials).

Ken

 

[PaulD]

UPDATE -

Well I've got my new car and I'm at a SUPER8 Motel off the highway somewhere in IL.

I didn't bring my gun but wish I did. I can't wait to get the hell out of this Motel. I don't like sleeping without it!

Good luck Ashdump.

I might be doing a similar trip at some point in the near future.

 

[Kevlar]

Even in NY, the only place I've heard any reports of chronic problems are the NYC area airports policed by the Port Authority Police, and the Albany airport, where the local DA was trying to make a name for himself (probably so he could get in on some of the better graft available to state officials).

People flying out of these airport may find this letter helpful:

http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf

 

[XTAV750]

We're heading to FL to visit my wifes parents and I was considering taking my M&P with me. I was unsure about packing ammo and this is what I found on the website:

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).

So if Im reading this right, I can pack two loaded mags in the same locked box as the firearm i f I pack them in a mag pouch. Does that sound right?

 

[ScottS]

We're heading to FL to visit my wifes parents and I was considering taking my M&P with me. I was unsure about packing ammo and this is what I found on the website:

You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).

So if Im reading this right, I can pack two loaded mags in the same locked box as the firearm i f I pack them in a mag pouch. Does that sound right?

Technically you are, in fact, correct, although I have found varying levels of knowledge/compliance by the various airlines. Carrying along a print-out of the relevant regulatory guidance is often cited as helpful.

 

[medbill]

Ammunition can be stored in loaded magazines in a mag pouch but those magazines must be separate from the locked firearm as I understand it. I just recently flew to Fla for some training with Tactical Response last month and I kept my mags empty and locked up with my pistol in a starlight case which was placed inside my TSA locked luggage. One box of 50 carry rounds was stored in the factory cardboard box and placed inside the suitcase but not inside the pistol case. It was good to go flying into Florida and back to upstate NY from Orlando. Kinda like shipping a firearm, they don't want ammunition in the same box.

 

[ScottS]

Ammunition can be stored in loaded magazines in a mag pouch but those magazines must be separate from the locked firearm as I understand it. I just recently flew to Fla for some training with Tactical Response last month and I kept my mags empty and locked up with my pistol in a starlight case which was placed inside my TSA locked luggage. One box of 50 carry rounds was stored in the factory cardboard box and placed inside the suitcase but not inside the pistol case. It was good to go flying into Florida and back to upstate NY from Orlando. Kinda like shipping a firearm, they don't want ammunition in the same box.

To be blunt, you understand wrong.

From the TSA Website:

• You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
• You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
• You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but this kind of "I think I heard someone once say..." doesn't really add to anyone's understanding of the situation.

 

[Kevlar]

We're heading to FL to visit my wifes parents and I was considering taking my M&P with me. I was unsure about packing ammo and this is what I found on the website:

So if Im reading this right, I can pack two loaded mags in the same locked box as the firearm i f I pack them in a mag pouch. Does that sound right?

Yes.

Technically you are, in fact, correct, although I have found varying levels of knowledge/compliance by the various airlines. Carrying along a print-out of the relevant regulatory guidance is often cited as helpful.

Good advice.

Ammunition can be stored in loaded magazines in a mag pouch but those magazines must be separate from the locked firearm as I understand it. I just recently flew to Fla for some training with Tactical Response last month and I kept my mags empty and locked up with my pistol in a starlight case which was placed inside my TSA locked luggage. One box of 50 carry rounds was stored in the factory cardboard box and placed inside the suitcase but not inside the pistol case. It was good to go flying into Florida and back to upstate NY from Orlando. Kinda like shipping a firearm, they don't want ammunition in the same box.

Incorrect.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.

ETA: ScottS beat me to it

 

[BossHarley]

CT does not require a permit to own a firearm. Not even a pistol or AR etc. You are allowed to own a handgun and keep it in your place of residence/work, but cannot transport it concealed or even locked except to have work done by a gunsmith or to sell to a dealer.
In CT you can buy a rifle/shotgun with a 2 week wait or a hunting license -- I purchased my Bushmaster DCM this way in 2002 while waiting for my permit. You can even transport for hunting / target shooting perfectly legally.

I believe all states allow the transport of firearms through the state (so long as properly secured). I made a lot of calls (PA, NY, NJ) when I first moved from MD to CT, and all said I was fine as long as I kept them locked and separated from ammo.....

 

[Scrivener]

I believe all states allow the transport of firearms through the state (so long as properly secured). I made a lot of calls (PA, NY, NJ) when I first moved from MD to CT, and all said I was fine as long as I kept them locked and separated from ammo.....

You need to read more. Or, at least, SOME.

It is not a question of what "states allow;" it is FEDERAL LAW.

Google FOPA and learn.

 

[medbill]

I stand corrected

 

[Cabinetman]

BossHarley, you are correct.........

.......except..........the question begs.....how does one GET a hand gun in to take to their home or business in the first place?

Sure, CT says that as a property owner or business owner, you have the right to have a firearm on your premesis but it can NEVER leave that property because you don't have a permit to carry it, even in a box, locked or disassembled. That would connote posession without a permit if it were discovered.

The ONLY WAY to obtain a handgun in CT is to have a permit or what's called a "certificate of eligibility". Both require you take a safety course and have a background check done. So, you might as well go for the full permit at that point. The ONLY WAY for you to get around that is to move to CT with your handgun from another state. No one can "give" you one, leave you one to borrow, sell you one, or gift you one. That would be considered a "straw man" situation.

This is the BIG LIE in CT. The DPS cries that we have "loopholes" all day long yet they've created a catch-22 loophole all their own with the laws.

Rifles are another story as we still allow FTF sales without permits. But, I don't recall many homeowners walking around with an AR strapped to their backs. That would make the mailman and Jehova Witnesses who knock at your front door a bit wary, I'd think. LOL

Just thought I'd clarify.

Rome