Fatal Shooting in Worcester by Westborough LTC holder UPDATE: Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter! 4-7 Year Sentence with 77 Days Credit.

SFC13557 said:
Yes, but I don't think it was exactly those words.
I believe it was more like "we don't believe in people taking the law into their own hands" which was code for no self-defense with a weapon.
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Sorry no it was those exact words: “Self help” and that is exactly what she meant.
 
glockforlife said:
OK. So I am having a little trouble following what seems to be the consensus logic here. I have had an argument with someone. I am back in the car. They then break my car window. I have a firearm in the car but I should wait to see what happens next first? Did I get this right?
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Did the guy flee the scene?
 
If the victim was a member of a politically protected class, the shooter will be arrested. Even if the shoot was textbook.

Considering Zimmerman’s criminal trial cost him well over a million dollars, and that doesn’t include the cost of defending a civil lawsuit by Martin’s family, it’s far cheaper to do anything to avoid shooting someone.

As Ayoob says, no one ever wins a gunfight. You can only hope to lose less than you would have lost if you didn’t have the gun.
 
rogersmithiii said:
If the victim was a member of a politically protected class, the shooter will be arrested. Even if the shoot was textbook.

Considering Zimmerman’s criminal trial cost him well over a million dollars, and that doesn’t include the cost of defending a civil lawsuit by Martin’s family, it’s far cheaper to do anything to avoid shooting someone.

As Ayoob says, no one ever wins a gunfight. You can only hope to lose less than you would have lost if you didn’t have the gun.
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And no. Worcester is not a safe place any more.
 
"And no. Worcester is not a safe place any more."
As I stated previously depends on where you are in Worcester.

"For a long time, Worcester would not issue LTCs for anything except sporting and target."
You are correct just like most Ma. cities.
 
rogersmithiii said:
For a long time, Worcester would not issue LTCs for anything except sporting and target.
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At one point WPD offered handgun safety training. This was before it became a requirement, I think it cost $10, and they ran it twice each month, and filled it every time. There was a time when the PDs thought of issuing LTC as just part of the job and not a battle they needed to win.
 
42! said:
At one point WPD offered handgun safety training. This was before it became a requirement, I think it cost $10, and they ran it twice each month, and filled it every time. There was a time when the PDs thought of issuing LTC as just part of the job and not a battle they needed to win.
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Imagine if there were "constitutional carry"? Then, this would not involve the police at all. One less thing for them.
 
SFC13557 said:
"And no. Worcester is not a safe place any more."
As I stated previously depends on where you are in Worcester.

"For a long time, Worcester would not issue LTCs for anything except sporting and target."
You are correct just like most Ma. cities.
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It used to be that Park Ave was the dividing line between dysfunction, and civilized behavior. But the slime has crossed that boundary, and moved into western Pleasant Street, Tatnuck, Forest Street and even the high-end, Salisbury Street area. Add to the fact that socialists and communists have infiltrated the city council, and government, and you have the beginning of the end. Especially, when the free, federal money shuts off.
As much as Worcester likes to brag about the downtown, it's still filled with drug addicts, criminals, homeless people, and the mentally ill. A friend owns a business on Main Street, right in the heart of downtown, and he finds piles of human excrement in his foyer every single day.
 
rogersmithiii said:
It used to be that Park Ave was the dividing line between dysfunction, and civilized behavior. But the slime has crossed that boundary, and moved into western Pleasant Street, Tatnuck, Forest Street and even the high-end, Salisbury Street area. Add to the fact that socialists and communists have infiltrated the city council, and government, and you have the beginning of the end. Especially, when the free, federal money shuts off.
As much as Worcester likes to brag about the downtown, it's still filled with drug addicts, criminals, homeless people, and the mentally ill. A friend owns a business on Main Street, right in the heart of downtown, and he finds piles of human excrement in his foyer every single day.
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Went to buy a gift for my (adult) son at the Owl Shop, which is one of the coolest cigar and tobacco shops to be found IMHO. Sadly, the owner wants to GTFO of Mass and will close at end of year to move to NH. He doesn't even have specific plans for a reopening- just wants to go. :( Some favorite restaurants have closed, but that could be the usual risky business cycles for restaurants though if the city was thriving maybe they'd survive.

While I don't think Worcester is the worst of problem cities and a FAR cry from St. Louis, New Orleans, etc.; as we slip into recession combined with inflation it is only going to head in the wrong direction.
 
headednorth said:
-verbal altercation between two guys
-one guy is sitting in his car, the other is standing outside of it.
-window gets broken somehow by someone
-guy in car shoots other guy
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5: guy in car makes a statement thinking the police and courts are his friends
 
Rat187 said:
5: guy in car makes a statement thinking the police and courts are his friends
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Willing to bet that the actual statement was harmless and did not reveal anything that wasn’t plainly obvious but was cherry picked for the purposes of the statement of facts. There was no way he was going home that morning.
 
eboos said:
Willing to bet that the actual statement was harmless and did not reveal anything that wasn’t plainly obvious but was cherry picked for the purposes of the statement of facts. There was no way he was going home that morning.
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That's the problem. People think they can talk their way out of an arrest.

They need to realize, they WILL be arrested and likely charged with SOMETHING regardless of circumstances or what they say or dont say. Police instinct will always be to cya, make an arrest and let the DA handle it from there. They'll typically be making it easier for a lawyer to deal with their situation later on by saying nothing.
 
Mountain said:
Went to buy a gift for my (adult) son at the Owl Shop, which is one of the coolest cigar and tobacco shops to be found IMHO. Sadly, the owner wants to GTFO of Mass and will close at end of year to move to NH. He doesn't even have specific plans for a reopening- just wants to go. :( Some favorite restaurants have closed, but that could be the usual risky business cycles for restaurants though if the city was thriving maybe they'd survive.

While I don't think Worcester is the worst of problem cities and a FAR cry from St. Louis, New Orleans, etc.; as we slip into recession combined with inflation it is only going to head in the wrong direction.
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Yes, I read the Owl Shop was closing and looking to relocate to NH. Longtime Worcester business, not good!
 
SFC13557 said:
Yes, I read the Owl Shop was closing and looking to relocate to NH. Longtime Worcester business, not good!
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I'm surprised they lasted that long, the 40% excise tax in MA on cigars makes doing business at retail a very difficult prospect. Basically if you priced your product to be competitive and actually make money you're selling stuff at 40% over what the same product is an hour away.... and people don't enjoy raep. The only way raep works is if you're selling sticks in a full service lounge.
 
drgrant said:
I'm surprised they lasted that long, the 40% excise tax in MA on cigars makes doing business at retail a very difficult prospect. Basically if you priced your product to be competitive and actually make money you're selling stuff at 40% over what the same product is an hour away.... and people don't enjoy raep. The only way raep works is if you're selling sticks in a full service lounge.
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Yup, used to stop in when daughter was at Clark and I was in my cigar addiction. The Irish Times was a great bar near there and is gone also I believe.
 
Mountain said:
Went to buy a gift for my (adult) son at the Owl Shop, which is one of the coolest cigar and tobacco shops to be found IMHO. Sadly, the owner wants to GTFO of Mass and will close at end of year to move to NH.
Click to expand...
Two Guys Smoke Shop started as a hole in the wall 200 Sq Ft store on lower Broadway in Everett..... They advertised on Howie Carr and got lots of interest... and booked to NH to avoid the MA taxes.

Not a lot of cigar availability in Pelham, but the line of cars with MA plates coming up from Lowell via Dracut to the cigarette stores just over the border in mind boggling... save 40 bucks plus a carton and you can get menthol cigs in NH.
 
headednorth said:
That's the problem. People think they can talk their way out of an arrest.

They need to realize, they WILL be arrested and likely charged with SOMETHING regardless of circumstances or what they say or dont say. Police instinct will always be to cya, make an arrest and let the DA handle it from there. They'll typically be making it easier for a lawyer to deal with their situation later on by saying nothing.
Click to expand...
It's amazing how many people know nothing of the criminal justice system and think that being arrested is the end of their world as they know it and resist. Like, no dude. Once you've been charged, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced, then you can say unequivocally that your world as a free man is probably over. Lots of steps in between, and with criminal justice these days, unless you're a white guy, everyone else is being let out the back door by these soft-on-crime liberal DAs and activist judges. Resisting arrest, for many of them, is just delaying the inevitable catch and release, and potentially reducing the chance of it.
 
42! said:
At one point WPD offered handgun safety training. This was before it became a requirement, I think it cost $10, and they ran it twice each month, and filled it every time. There was a time when the PDs thought of issuing LTC as just part of the job and not a battle they needed to win.
Click to expand...
in the cool version of our universe, people booked this in advance and the $10 was sometimes low light, dynamic courses
 
Tartakovsky said:
It's amazing how many people know nothing of the criminal justice system and think that being arrested is the end of their world as they know it and resist. Like, no dude. Once you've been charged, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced, then you can say unequivocally that your world as a free man is probably over. Lots of steps in between, and with criminal justice these days, unless you're a white guy, everyone else is being let out the back door by these soft-on-crime liberal DAs and activist judges. Resisting arrest, for many of them, is just delaying the inevitable catch and release, and potentially reducing the chance of it.
Click to expand...
What is also amazing is what qualifies as "resisting arrest". For many, being arrested, or detained even, is confusing and stressful. A natural reaction would be to try to explain your situation as you know it. Then as the officer is grabbing your arm because you did not immediately comply, your natural reaction is to pull away to avoid such contact. Congratulations! You just unlocked achievement: Stop Resisting. 80 gamer points and a throwaway charge to use as a bargaining chip for a plea deal.
 

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