Euro 5.56s

tk421991

tk421991

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Just wondering: anyone ever shoot a European 5.56x45 rifle? FAMAS, Steyr AUG (full auto), SA80, L85, AK-101? I'd buy a FAMAS or AUG clone if I had the money and someone made a FAMAS clone. I've handled one of the new semi auto Steyrs at Heritage G&C but I don't have $1850 to spend.
 
Everything you need to know about the FAMAS, including the surrender handles and surrender sticks (5:50 for those who can't wait). No offence frenchman lol :)


I have an Aug clone (MSAR E4), it is a very fun rifle, and short.
 
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beaker said:
Everything you need to know about the FAMAS, including the surrender handles and surrender sticks (5:57 for those who can't wait). No offence frenchman lol :)


I have an Aug clone (MSAR E4), it is a very fun rifle, and short.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the video, but what's with the male yoga pants? [puke2]
 
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Actually, I don't think I've been very helpfull, and I apologize for my smartass remark.
If you have any specific questions about the FAMAS, I might be able to help you to a certain extent, albeit my knowledge, as humble as it may be, is limited to the A1 model. I have never even held the A2 or DM version. Shoot me a PM with any question you might have.
 
frenchman said:
Actually, I don't think I've been very helpfull, and I apologize for my smartass remark.
If you have any specific questions about the FAMAS, I might be able to help you to a certain extent, albeit my knowledge, as humble as it may be, is limited to the A1 model. I have never even held the A2 or DM version. Shoot me a PM with any question you might have.
Click to expand...

It's all good, I just have an intellectual curiosity. There's no way I'd be able to actually buy a FAMAS since they usually sell for over $10,000 and even if I did buy one, it would be a safe queen.

I'm familiar with AKs and ARs, just wondering if anyone on here has had any experience with modern European rifles. How's the accuracy, which do you prefer, the reliability, how easy to field strip, etc. I don't have any specific questions and I'm not looking for a buyer's guide. I always want to know more about all kinds of guns.
 
Well, I've shot the British SA, the German HK G3, the FN FAL of the comrades from Belgium, and had the opportunity to shoot most European sniper systems at some of the very early NATO competitions. Anyhow, I did not have the opportunity to field strip any foreign rifles.
The British rifle I got to shoot was brand new at that time, which should give you an idea of how much of an old fart I am. The rifle had an optic, iirc, and the weapon was a total piece of trash. FTEs galore. The G3 I shot was the German sniper version with an Hensoldt optic. Went BANG every time, and was around 1.5-2 MOA. The thing was quite heavy, and despite the weight, it still gave you a decent hit in the shoulder. It is, up to this day, my personal #1 choice for work as a designated marksman. The FAL I got to shoot had a giggle switch, and I couldn't hit jackshit on full auto, but it shot decent results on semi.
Now, the FAMAS... Accuracy: ok for a battle rifle. Ergonomics: not all that great. Reloading is a bitch. Lots of fumbling with your weak hand. On the other hand, you can switch from 3 round burst to full grin in a pinch, while staying on target. The sighting system must have been designed by Stevie Wonder. You have to hold your head pretty high to use the open sights, and that's a good way to get your noggin ventilated in a hurry. The FAMAS comes apart like a charm. You can set it up for right or left hand shooter in under 2 minutes. The sling that comes with it is ok, and the integrated bipod is good. What's really awesome is that you can shoot rifle grenades without alterations. And it's hard to beat in close quarters because of its compactness.
 
frenchman said:
Well, I've shot the British SA, the German HK G3, the FN FAL of the comrades from Belgium, and had the opportunity to shoot most European sniper systems at some of the very early NATO competitions. Anyhow, I did not have the opportunity to field strip any foreign rifles.
The British rifle I got to shoot was brand new at that time, which should give you an idea of how much of an old fart I am. The rifle had an optic, iirc, and the weapon was a total piece of trash. FTEs galore. The G3 I shot was the German sniper version with an Hensoldt optic. Went BANG every time, and was around 1.5-2 MOA. The thing was quite heavy, and despite the weight, it still gave you a decent hit in the shoulder. It is, up to this day, my personal #1 choice for work as a designated marksman. The FAL I got to shoot had a giggle switch, and I couldn't hit jackshit on full auto, but it shot decent results on semi.
Now, the FAMAS... Accuracy: ok for a battle rifle. Ergonomics: not all that great. Reloading is a bitch. Lots of fumbling with your weak hand. On the other hand, you can switch from 3 round burst to full grin in a pinch, while staying on target. The sighting system must have been designed by Stevie Wonder. You have to hold your head pretty high to use the open sights, and that's a good way to get your noggin ventilated in a hurry. The FAMAS comes apart like a charm. You can set it up for right or left hand shooter in under 2 minutes. The sling that comes with it is ok, and the integrated bipod is good. What's really awesome is that you can shoot rifle grenades without alterations. And it's hard to beat in close quarters because of its compactness.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, good reading! [grin]
 
That looks like the issued APXL 806 on your 49/56. How do you like it?
is it one of the re chambered ones, or original caliber?
 
I picked up a Steyr AUG A3 in Dec 2009. I wanted one back in the late '80s when the first were imported.
They were going for $700 out the door back then. The same A1 today goes for $3.5-5k as it is "pre-ban"


Malodave
 
I remember it being 3.85. I had the same set up as a SDM. Transitionned to the FRF1 and a little later FRF2. The F1 had the same APXL, but my company being wealthy (yeah, right) we purchased civi Zeiss 8x42 for the F2.
 
If the 3rd from the top is a Lebel carbine, you have a kinda legendary weapon there, and not in a good way. It is said that it is the worst recoiling weapon the French. Forces ever used. Can you confirm that?
 
I haven't shot it too much, but when I did I didn't notice anything horrible. It's certainly no worse than any other carbine firing a full-size military cartridge. Of course, I'm a Mosin Nagant nut too, so maybe I just don't notice the pain anymore!

Also - I think I've only fired reloads in the carbine, so maybe they were pretty mild as compared to the original military spec ammo.
 
I thought this would interest @frenchman. I vaguely recall a debate over the accuracy of the SL8 though I can't find the thread/posts. Anyway, this is directly related to the thread title as this doesn't get more Euro 5.56 than the HK G36.:

Mounted my Trijicon VCOG 1-8x on the SL8/G36 conversion and zeroed at 100 yards this weekend. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to go through all the different bullet weights to figure out which was most accurate for the 1 in 7 twist bull barrel that comes on the SL8 (vs. the pencil barrel on the G36). What I know is that the heavier 5.56 match rounds are more accurate and consistent than the lighter ones. I ended up zeroing with M855 (I have a ton of it), and then shot some 69 and 74 grain match ammo. 69 was decent, 74 was more so.

Rifle is sub MOA with the right ammo. Didn't take a lot of work to get there either.

For specs: HK SL8 w/ 20" capped bull barrel converted by Black Ops Defense to an HK G36 with an 18" barrel w/ Surefire muzzle brake. Magazine is the HK mag conversion to STANAG mags, so it takes/shoots double stack mags vs. the proprietary HK single stack. Went with the ACR stock, because I prefer it to the standard G36 options and the AR stocks look silly on it. I opted for the Hera Arms Gen 2 lower vs. the G36 lower and mag block conversion. The Hera is aluminum, sturdy and well made and has various adapters for stocks. The pistol grip is more like an AR grip with texture and storage vs. the plain G36 grip. Internals are all HK, including the trigger. This allows an easy conversion back to an SL8, albeit one that could take single or double stack mags depending on the bolt/mag well used.

With optic, weighs in at 12lbs unloaded. Optic weighs almost 2lbs. Bull barrel accounts for a bit of this as well. For comparison, a G36 weighs in at 8lbs bare and an SL8 at 9lbs. I see the difference in weight vs. the G36 as the heavier barrel, aluminum carry handle (G36 is polymer), Hera aluminum lower receiver (HK receiver is polymer), VFG, sling, BUIS. ACR stock is slightly heavier than a standard G36 stock.

Only issues I've had with it are aluminum 10 round mags don't release properly. 30 round prebans work fine as do various polymer mags. However, I can't put 30 rounds in the mags, have to go with 29 as the mags won't sit properly and lock in otherwise. I vaguely remember a drill sergeant telling me back in basic to not fit 30 rounds in and always go 29 with various M16's back in the day, so maybe this is a more common issue than I recall. I'm old and can't remember well that far back.

Ergonomics are good. Manual of arms and dealing with jams (had one light primer strike and FTE) were simple to deal with and field stripping is quick, albeit not as quick as an AR and requires a tool to remove the rear screws holding the stock/receiver. Only issue I really have is the optic is mounted high and requires keeping your chin welded to the stock instead of your cheek. It's a little awkward and takes getting used to if you’re accustomed to an AR flattop. I may address it by getting a lower carry handle.

1702312543333.png


This is what the HK started life as:
1702314394108.png
 
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frenchman said:
Nice makeover. Let me guess, all in, you’re probably in KA SR 15 territory (price wise).
Click to expand...
$1500 for the SL8.

$1500 for the G36 gunsmith conversion (barrel cut and threaded and surefire brake installed, bolt modified to handle double stack feed, upper receiver blown out to accept double stack feed, lower parts swapped to hera lower from HK thumbhole lower. Markings changed to G36 from SL8. I still have some color fill to do on the markings.

Roughly $1000 in conversion parts.

Call it an even $4000 before adding the VCOG, sling, VFG, BUIS, etc. so yeah, KA territory.

As is in the picture, fully kitted out: $6400.

Having HK goodness that is relatively rare in these parts and something other than an AR, priceless.

* Black Ops Denfense in PA did the gunsmith conversion work.
 
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