Dual Residence

[HuntMaine]

Buy whatever you want but don't bring anything into Mass that runs foul of the AWB

This ^^^^^

Also you are not dual unless you are filing and paying income taxes in BOTH states. You have a primary residence and own property in the other.

 

[Asaltweapon]

This ^^^^^

Also you are not dual unless you are filing and paying income taxes in BOTH states. You have a primary residence and own property in the other.

It sure as shit proves it.
I had to provide an original state or town document in ink with the full address in plain view to satisfy the FFL. No copies accepted.

 

[Asaltweapon]

western side of Maine. Fryeburg, ME. But I drive to/from MA often so anywhere from MA line to as far as Portland would be doable .

I’d be looking at WW and S3.
WW was just a mail order for me but nice people. No bullshit.
S3 is active on social media. No direct experience.

 

[pastera]

This ^^^^^

Also you are not dual unless you are filing and paying income taxes in BOTH states. You have a primary residence and own property in the other.

May be pedantic but that's not correct.
Not every state has income taxes.
You must be a resident of both states.
One way of proving residency is showing a receipt for real estate taxes paid on a home, or a lease for a residence.

I pay income taxes in two states but am not considered a dual resident since I work in the second state without a residence there.

 

[Asaltweapon]

My comebt may be pedantic but that's not correct.
Not every state has income taxes.
You must be a resident of both states.
One way of proving residency is showing a receipt for real estate taxes paid on a home, or a lease for a residence.

I pay income taxes in two states but am not considered a dual resident since I work in the second state without a residence there.

Property tax bill. Motor vehicle or trailer registration works just fine if the address is clearly shown.

 

[HuntMaine]

May be pedantic but that's not correct.
Not every state has income taxes.
You must be a resident of both states.
One way of proving residency is showing a receipt for real estate taxes paid on a home, or a lease for a residence.

I pay income taxes in two states but am not considered a dual resident since I work in the second state without a residence there.

Real estate taxes do not neccesarily prove residency though. I have property in several states and pay real estate taxes. It’s being in that location for I think 185 days(?) then that state can go after you for Income Tax. I make it easy by owning nothing in my name, avoids extra taxes.

 

[Sf Becket]

Taking weapons from MA into Maine is not a big deal, vice versa its a headache. Honestly I would view it as you have guns you buy and they stay in Maine.

Actually there are a number Firearms that you can bring in to Mass if you are moving there. Glocks for example as long as you have a ten round magazine

 

[pastera]

Real estate taxes do not neccesarily prove residency though. I have property in several states and pay real estate taxes. It’s being in that location for I think 185 days(?) then that state can go after you for Income Tax. I make it easy by owning nothing in my name, avoids extra taxes.

Again, not all states have income tax so that is a non sequitor.
Payment of real estate taxes on a home in another state is not proof of residence since you could rent that home out but it is evidence to support a person's claim that they do reside in that state.
As far as time that is also not relevant. One can own a vacation home where you only stay for one week per year and for federal firearms purposes you are a resident of the state for the time you are residing in that vacation home.

 

[Dench]

Why do you think they should offer any sort of personal exemption not in line of duty?

Why do we think they should have any exemptions at all?

 

[HuntMaine]

Again, not all states have income tax so that is a non sequitor.
Payment of real estate taxes on a home in another state is not proof of residence since you could rent that home out but it is evidence to support a person's claim that they do reside in that state.
As far as time that is also not relevant. One can own a vacation home where you only stay for one week per year and for federal firearms purposes you are a resident of the state for the time you are residing in that vacation home.

However as I said if you stay 183 days you are on the hook to pay taxes to that state so yes it is relevant

 

[pastera]

However as I said if you stay 183 days you are on the hook to pay taxes to that state so yes it is relevant

Please stop adding complications by referencing tax law.
A person doesn't need to have ANY tax liability to be a resident for federal firearms purchasing purposes.
The OPs parents could have given him a signed lease agreement for zero dollars or he could simply put the electricity in his name.
All a person needs is a document showing that they have a residence in that state and are currently residing (easy since your standing in a gun store) at that residence in order to comply with federal laws and regulations.
Could you use a resident tax return for proof of residency, probably but that's not a document I'd be happy turning over to some random worker at a gun store.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Please stop adding complications by referencing tax law.
A person doesn't need to have ANY tax liability to be a resident for federal firearms purchasing purposes.
The OPs parents could have given him a signed lease agreement for zero dollars or he could simply put the electricity in his name.
All a person needs is a document showing that they have a residence in that state and are currently residing (easy since your standing in a gun store) at that residence in order to comply with federal laws and regulations.
Could you use a resident tax return for proof of residency, probably but that's not a document I'd be happy turning over to some random worker at a gun store.

I was told to my face that a utility bill is not proof enough to the shop I was working with. Original only .gov paperwork only as I mentioned prior and it must be in the current year so my property tax bill that didn’t show up until Nov was only good for a month and change if I wasn’t living here now.
Technically the .gov documents do show some of your tax liability like excise taxes.

 

[HuntMaine]

Please stop adding complications by referencing tax law.
A person doesn't need to have ANY tax liability to be a resident for federal firearms purchasing purposes.
The OPs parents could have given him a signed lease agreement for zero dollars or he could simply put the electricity in his name.
All a person needs is a document showing that they have a residence in that state and are currently residing (easy since your standing in a gun store) at that residence in order to comply with federal laws and regulations.
Could you use a resident tax return for proof of residency, probably but that's not a document I'd be happy turning over to some random worker at a gun store.

I never said they did, maybe read it again. What I said is YOU are liable for taxes if you reside in the state for more than 183 days so claiming you are a resident in a govt form opens you up for scrutiny . I could care less about how you think you can claim residence. My point is the states DOR can come knocking and claim their share of taxes from your income. That’s a fact. So if you want to play games with the tax man, go for it

 

[pastera]

I never said they did, maybe read it again. What I said is YOU are liable for taxes if you reside in the state for more than 183 days so claiming you are a resident in a govt form opens you up for scrutiny . I could care less about how you think you can claim residence. My point is the states DOR can come knocking and claim their share of taxetur s from your income. That’s a fact. So if you want to play games with the tax man, go for it

Since the thread is specifically for the question of proof of residency for the purpose of meeting federal firearms purchase regulations, state level tax implications simply have nothing to do with the conversation.

 

[pastera]

I was told to my face that a utility bill is not proof enough to the shop I was working with. Original only .gov paperwork only as I mentioned prior and it must be in the current year so my property tax bill that didn’t show up until Nov was only good for a month and change if I wasn’t living here now.
Technically the .gov documents do show some of your tax liability like excise taxes.

FUDDish FFLs are going to FUDD.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

This ^^^^^

Also you are not dual unless you are filing and paying income taxes in BOTH states. You have a primary residence and own property in the other.

Income tax has nothing to do with dual residency for the ATF. a Tax bill such as property tax, is sufficient, but income tax is not a requirement

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I never said they did, maybe read it again. What I said is YOU are liable for taxes if you reside in the state for more than 183 days so claiming you are a resident in a govt form opens you up for scrutiny . I could care less about how you think you can claim residence. My point is the states DOR can come knocking and claim their share of taxes from your income. That’s a fact. So if you want to play games with the tax man, go for it

wrong again. Stop spreading bad information.

 

[Asaltweapon]

FUDDish FFLs are going to FUDD.

Really?? It’s their shop and rules in order for them to stay in good grace with the BATFE. How else does a duel resident prove the residency? My INCOME tax does not do that cause I wasn’t paying income taxes.
My trailer registration is proof as it showed my complete address and was stamped by the town tax collector.
Same woman takes care of property tax collections.


It’s hardly a FUDD dealer where I bought my 365 that does not have that stupid MA safety.
I now DGAF and can buy anything I want.

 

[pastera]

Really?? It’s their shop and rules in order for them to stay in good grace with the BATFE. How else does a duel resident prove the residency? My INCOME tax does not do that cause I wasn’t paying income taxes.
My trailer registration is proof as it showed my complete address and was stamped by the town tax collector.
Same woman takes care of property tax collections.


It’s hardly a FUDD dealer where I bought my 365 that does not have that stupid MA safety.
I now DGAF and can buy anything I want.

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

What form of identification must a licensee obtain from a transferee of a firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The identification document presented by the transferee must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The identification document must also be valid (e.g., unexpired) and have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose...

www.atf.gov

What is required of an FFL to verify residency is very broad. A shop not taking documents that show residency along with a government issued ID for identity is FUD.
I could see a cell phone bill not being proof of residency but an electric bill (current) along with a tax bill (most recent) should be more than enough.
Especially since it would be on you for lying on the 4473.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

What form of identification must a licensee obtain from a transferee of a firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The identification document presented by the transferee must have a photograph of the transferee, as well as the transferee’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The identification document must also be valid (e.g., unexpired) and have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose...

www.atf.gov

What is required of an FFL to verify residency is very broad. A shop not taking documents that show residency along with a government issued ID for identity is FUD.
I could see a cell phone bill not being proof of residency but an electric bill (current) along with a tax bill (most recent) should be more than enough.
Especially since it would be on you for lying on the 4473.

You wrote it. Not me. Just one is needed and you offer 2?

I’m done with this bs being a state resident now.

 

[pastera]

You wrote it. Not me. Just one is needed and you offer 2?

I’m done with this bs being a state resident now.

If your ID is from another state or is a passport (no address), you will need further documentation to show contemporary residence in the state in which you are purchasing (or a bordering state for long arms).
What types and numbers of documents might vary but an FFL not accepting clear documentation with a government issued ID and some other proof of residency is acting as a FUD.
It's on you if you falsify residency documents not the FFL (assuming the documents are at least believable)

 

[HuntMaine]

wrong again. Stop spreading bad information.

Mmm no that’s not wrong it’s 183 days so there’s that.

 

[HuntMaine]

Income tax has nothing to do with dual residency for the ATF. a Tax bill such as property tax, is sufficient, but income tax is not a requirement

Never said it did. Gotta read the post sometimes.

 

[paul73]

It’s their shop and rules in order for them to stay in good grace with the BATFE.

if they reject utility bills and property tax bills - those are no 'rules' - it is their own interpretation.
what was the shop, anyway, to reject those?

 

[free]

Anyone know a good CPA site that accountants use? Looking for some accurate gun advice. Thanks.

 

[HuntMaine]

My comment was tax focused not ATF, seems like it confused people. My point was to be careful as to not open yourself to more taxes. In terms of firearms out of state , have done it, and never had an issue.

For those who claim the 183 days was misinformation I’ll leave it here Learn about legal and residency status in Massachusetts

 

[Asaltweapon]

if they reject utility bills and property tax bills - those are no 'rules' - it is their own interpretation.
what was the shop, anyway, to reject those?

A bill only requires a mailing address. It does not say you live there.
MMS was the shop. Further south I’d expect a much deeper prodding.

 

[paul73]

A bill only requires a mailing address. It does not say you live there.

like i said - a bullshit interpretation. what is good for RMV is good for any other entity.

if you ask for a soviet internal passport with 'propiska' stamp in it - you better gotta know what it is you`re asking for.

 

[Asaltweapon]

if they reject utility bills and property tax bills - those are no 'rules' - it is their own interpretation.
what was the shop, anyway, to reject those?

JFC!
Point out to me where I wrote that.

 

[Asaltweapon]

like i said - a bullshit interpretation. what is good for RMV is good for any other entity.

if you ask for a soviet internal passport with 'propiska' stamp in it - you better gotta know what it is you`re asking for.

Explain this to me then.

The bills were all mailed to MA. It only mentions the service address. It’s a rental. Now what?