One other possible explanation is that the guy did have an negligent discharge and the cops fudged the report/story to protect the person (who just so happens to have a friend in the department that gave him permission to use the range).
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Dropped round goes off in police station
- Thread starter News Shooter
- Start date
One other possible explanation is that the guy did have an negligent discharge and the cops fudged the report/story to protect the person (who just so happens to have a friend in the department that gave him permission to use the range).
A couple years ago when Randy Cain taught a match in the area, he mentioned that he has seen cartridges discharge after being dropped onto the ground.
It is rare, but it can happen. Since the cartridge is not confined within chamber, the pressure dissipates quickly and what pressure is created does not have much time to accelerate the bullet. Also, the cartridge case will be going in the opposite direction from the bullet (and at a higher speed, since it is lighter). As a result, the bullet velocity is far, far lower than it would be when shot out of the gun.
Here's the thread I was looking for:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=59883&an=0&page=0#59883
It is rare, but it can happen. Since the cartridge is not confined within chamber, the pressure dissipates quickly and what pressure is created does not have much time to accelerate the bullet. Also, the cartridge case will be going in the opposite direction from the bullet (and at a higher speed, since it is lighter). As a result, the bullet velocity is far, far lower than it would be when shot out of the gun.
Here's the thread I was looking for:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=59883&an=0&page=0#59883
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Yes, it is certainly possible. I've even managed to do it myself,when I was buying some ammo at State Line in Mason, with a box of loose packed 10mm reloads, some of which had high primers.
Strangely enough the floor I dropped the box on had a low pile commercial carpet on it. I was carrying a pile of boxes (about 300 rounds worth) and one fell off the top, and when it hit the floor... BANG!!!! There was only one other customer in the store when it happened, and he just about shit his pants because he thought someone had an ND, although it was not nearly as loud as real ND would be if it was fired out of a gun barrel. It was loud enough to make my ears ring and block out hearing for several seconds, though. The ringing went away in not that much time.
It must've landed rim down against another cartridge. The bullet went straight up and went through the foam
ceiling panel and bounced off the wood ceiling, but it did no visible damage to that floor. We found the bullet
rolling around inside the drop ceiling. The bullet was a 180 gr lead flat point. We found the brass on the floor and the top part of it was basically shredded to bits. It had blown the box of ammo apart and the force of the explosion ripped the little box to shreds and caused setback in a few rounds that were left in there. Upon further inspection we found other rounds that had high primers, so that was clearly the cause (well, other than my clumsiness).
A freak accident, to put it mildly. I would imagine that under normal circumstances with well made ammo, dropping it on a flat surface would not result in discharge. You could probably sit throwing rounds onto a cement floor all day and not get one of them to go off, the best you'll probably end up with is a bunch of damaged ammo.
-Mike
Strangely enough the floor I dropped the box on had a low pile commercial carpet on it. I was carrying a pile of boxes (about 300 rounds worth) and one fell off the top, and when it hit the floor... BANG!!!! There was only one other customer in the store when it happened, and he just about shit his pants because he thought someone had an ND, although it was not nearly as loud as real ND would be if it was fired out of a gun barrel. It was loud enough to make my ears ring and block out hearing for several seconds, though. The ringing went away in not that much time.
It must've landed rim down against another cartridge. The bullet went straight up and went through the foam
ceiling panel and bounced off the wood ceiling, but it did no visible damage to that floor. We found the bullet
rolling around inside the drop ceiling. The bullet was a 180 gr lead flat point. We found the brass on the floor and the top part of it was basically shredded to bits. It had blown the box of ammo apart and the force of the explosion ripped the little box to shreds and caused setback in a few rounds that were left in there. Upon further inspection we found other rounds that had high primers, so that was clearly the cause (well, other than my clumsiness).
A freak accident, to put it mildly. I would imagine that under normal circumstances with well made ammo, dropping it on a flat surface would not result in discharge. You could probably sit throwing rounds onto a cement floor all day and not get one of them to go off, the best you'll probably end up with is a bunch of damaged ammo.
-Mike
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In an even rarer case (like the one I just described) the bullet CAN fly someplace, if that cartridge case is up against something... so when the bullet and the case part company, the bullet can get pushed in the other (unobstructed) direction. Obviously, the force will still be nothing like as if it had been fired out of a barrel...
probably would leave a welt, though.
-Mike
In the incident I personally experienced, the noise was pretty
damned loud. A layperson would easily assume it to be gunfire.
A gunperson who has had the misfortune of having their bell rung
(by being exposed to gunfire without hearing protection) would
probably be able to tell the difference.
With loud noises, I think the human ear does strange things
depending on the distance one is from the source. When you
are really close to the source, and the noise is way too loud, things
often don't sound like they should sound, because one's
ear is probably pissed off at the excessive sound level.
-Mike
I can personally attest to a 5.56 round tossed by some moron into a Car/bonfire we had at Norwich Univ. in 1984 or so going off and striking the guy next to me in the leg. Pretty bloody chunk taken out of his thigh and we were 25 feet or so away from the fire. There had been some FTX's going on during the week, and someone pilferred some rounds and threw them in the blaze. My guess is that these were blanks and not FMJ's, so maybe the little hole acted as a nozzle to direct the round. Pretty lucky that the guy just needed some stitches and was ok.
![[banana]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/029.GIF "Banana [banana]")
Finally some one who can agree that my story is not unique..or an outright lie.
Just about everyone I've ever told about my son's incident has tended to disbelieve me.
Thank you !!!!
Finally some one who can agree that my story is not unique..or an outright lie.
Just about everyone I've ever told about my son's incident has tended to disbelieve me.
Thank you !!!!
I always believed you
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Huh. Physics tells me that force equals mass times acceleration (F=MA). So, acceleration being equal, the greater mass will have a greater impact (force). Or maybe you're saying that the lead, having greater mass, will travel with less acceleration than the brass?
Damn. I'm confused.
Yup. You are
.Suppose neither the case nor the bullet are constrained. That is, suppose the cartridge is horizontal when it goes off. Both have roughly the same area that will be acted upon by the pressure caused by powder ignition (~ .78 * diameter squared). With the same force (pressure times area) acting on both bodies, the velocity of the bullet (the heavier body) will be less than the body of the cartridge (the lighter body).
Yup. You are
Suppose neither the case nor the bullet are constrained. That is, suppose the cartridge is horizontal when it goes off. Both have roughly the same area that will be acted upon by the pressure caused by powder ignition (~ .78 * diameter squared). With the same force (pressure times area) acting on both bodies, the velocity of the bullet (the heavier body) will be less than the body of the cartridge (the lighter body).
In other words, A=F/M. The greater the mass, the less the acceleration. Which is what I thought I was supposed to understand from the previous post. Got it, now. Thanks.
Yes. The force for both is the same, but Mcartridge < Mbullet, so Acartridge > Abullet.
Of course, we've made a number of simplifying assumptions which are patently not correct. Chances are, if the bullet goes off because it hits the ground, then the cartridge case is facing the ground (because the primer hit the ground), so now you are dealing with gravity, plus the cartridge case probably hits the ground again after detonation and that is probably not an elastic collision, etc., etc....
Huh. I think as a practical matter that gravity can be ignored in this example ...
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
... Time to collect some empirical data. I'll be right back ...
Finally some one who can agree that my story is not unique..or an outright lie.
Just about everyone I've ever told about my son's incident has tended to disbelieve me.
Thank you !!!!
I was on the fence... haha
Anyway, I've tossed some soda cans into a fire before...good thing we were taking shelter behind a picnic table when they went off. shrapnel covered my friend's yard for weeks.
It was a 40mm exploding round. He found it while hiking. When he slammed it on the desk to emphasize a point, it emphasized his fingers all over the room.
Guess it wasn't "spent" then, was it?
No. No, it wasn't.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I wonder if being the Grand Poobah of the Darwin Awards prevented him from being charged with bringing a DD into class (provided he did not have the stamp for it)? Heck, how about HE in general?
This is about as bright as being over in Europe and polishing up an UXO for a door stop!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_midlands/6979845.stm
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If the 40mm was a golden orb (HE) he would have probably not lived to tell about it.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
It probably was a practice round, and IIRC, those generally do not count as a DD/EXPDD, at least not federally.
(they probably contain less than the minimum amount of substance, or are exempt as "target marking devices". )
-Mike
rain
in stead of guessing why does not some one on here check for facts. the Nra did a test on this subject and came to a conclusion.I personally saw a case the rd was 8 mm lebel in a MG and a hang fire the person ejected it and it flew in air.it went of like a cap(primer)and the case split,there was damage a good cut on srm when the case passed by the gunner,band aid cured that and the case dropped at my wifes foot about 25 ft away.it was ripped open.they dont explode.if confined thats different.or black powder or blank powder.![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
in stead of guessing why does not some one on here check for facts. the Nra did a test on this subject and came to a conclusion.I personally saw a case the rd was 8 mm lebel in a MG and a hang fire the person ejected it and it flew in air.it went of like a cap(primer)and the case split,there was damage a good cut on srm when the case passed by the gunner,band aid cured that and the case dropped at my wifes foot about 25 ft away.it was ripped open.they dont explode.if confined thats different.or black powder or blank powder.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
in stead of guessing why does not some one on here check for facts. the Nra did a test on this subject and came to a conclusion.I personally saw a case the rd was 8 mm lebel in a MG and a hang fire the person ejected it and it flew in air.it went of like a cap(primer)and the case split,there was damage a good cut on srm when the case passed by the gunner,band aid cured that and the case dropped at my wifes foot about 25 ft away.it was ripped open.they dont explode.if confined thats different.or black powder or blank powder.
This post is probably awesome in English.
