Dropped round goes off in police station

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Is this possible?

GRAND FORKS, N.D., March 6 (UPI) -- A North Dakota man had some explaining to do after a round fired when he dropped ammunition in the lobby of the Grand Forks police station, police said.

John Hammen of Grand Forks was held for questioning after the bullet went off while he was on his way to the firing range in the basement of the police station Wednesday, the Grand Forks (N.D.) Herald reported.

"We heard a shot go off in the hallway. A number of us ran out and found sitting on the stairwell a gentleman who said he dropped a box of ammunition and one round went off," Capt. Kerwin Kjelstrom said.

Police recovered a box of ammunition and a 45-caliber gun, which was given back to Hammen before he left the building, Kjelstrom told reporters.

The department will conduct "a review of how people come in (to the law enforcement building) and how weapons are secured and how they use our range," Kjelstrom said.
 
I guess anything is possible, but I've never heard of a round going off when dropped while it was still in the box.
 
I suppose if the brass was still around it should something, no? Would it look different if not fired in a chamber? Not to mention a primer strike.
 
The police station allows non-police to use their range for shooting? Huh? I don't get it....

Ive always wondered about dropped ammo....seems to me that so long as it lands primer-first, theres a decent chance of setting the cartridge off if the primer hits something hard...when i found a round of 9mm in my dryer, i wondered how much chance there was that in all that tumbling, the primer never whacked anything inside....
 
More info...



GF police release man who says his box of ammunition dropped in police lobby, one round went off
By Chuck Haga, Herald Staff Writer
Published Wednesday, March 05, 2008


Grand Forks police have released a man held for questioning after police responded to what sounded like a gunshot in the lobby of the law enforcement building shortly before 10 this morning.

"We heard a shot go off in the hallway," said Capt. Kerwin Kjelstrom, one of about five officers who responded to the shot from the detectives' room.

"A number of us ran out and found sitting on the stairwell a gentleman who said he dropped a box of ammunition and one round went off," Kjelstrom said.

The man, identified by police as John Hammen of Grand Forks, was taken to an interviewing room.

Kjelstrom said police recovered a box of ammunition on the floor "with a corner blown off."

"At this point, that supports his story," Kjelstrom said.

Police also recovered a .45-caliber gun, which was returned to Hammen when he was released shortly before 11 a.m. Kjelstrom said Hammen told police he brought the weapon and ammunition to the police department and planned to meet someone who had authorized him to use the department's shooting range, located in the basement.

Kjelstrom and other officers said it is unusual for a round to go off if dropped, but something may have struck the firing cap.

Officers found the .45-caliber round behind seating by windows near the main entrance on the west side of the law enforcement building. It was undamaged and appeared not to have struck anything before settling behind the window seating. When a round goes off outside a chamber, the force behind the shell may be dissipated, officers said.

Still, the loud report -- Kjelstrom likened it to a clipboard falling hard onto the floor -- got hearts racing.

"This is a police department, and there are people who are not happy with us," Kjelstrom said, explaining the concern of officers who responded.

"You hear a round go off, and everybody wonders what are we going to find when we go out the door. Fortunately, nobody was hurt, there were no injuries."

Kjelstrom said he cannot recall anything like this morning's incident happening at the law enforcement center.

Police closed the lobby about 10:05 a.m. and used yellow tape to close off part of the lobby near the stairwell. Doors were locked at the main and Fifth Street entrances until about 11 a.m.

Kjelstrom said there will be "a review of how people come in (to the law enforcement building) and how weapons are secured and how they use our range."
Click to expand...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=69607&section=News
 
I imagine when a round goes off outside of a barrel, there's not a large chance of the bullet or casing hurting anybody too badly, except perhaps a person immediately next to it when it goes off. Since the gas will dissipate very quickly once the bullet has left the casing, the bullet and casing aren't going to get accelerated very much. In fact, I seem to recall a Mythbusters where they were exploding rounds with a microwave and couldn't get the exploded round to even make much of a mark on the inside of the oven. Once they put it in a gun, though, the bullet made quick work of the oven door.
 
I once washed 3 or 4 .22LR rounds with no resultant holes in the washer or dryer...

Tiktock said:
The police station allows non-police to use their range for shooting? Huh? I don't get it....

Ive always wondered about dropped ammo....seems to me that so long as it lands primer-first, theres a decent chance of setting the cartridge off if the primer hits something hard...when i found a round of 9mm in my dryer, i wondered how much chance there was that in all that tumbling, the primer never whacked anything inside....
Click to expand...
 
Mythbuster did something like that again with a .22lr being used as a fuse in a car..once again, without a barrel do direct the force of the explosion, the bullet did little to no damage.
 
jdubois said:
I imagine when a round goes off outside of a barrel, there's not a large chance of the bullet or casing hurting anybody too badly, except perhaps a person immediately next to it when it goes off. Since the gas will dissipate very quickly once the bullet has left the casing, the bullet and casing aren't going to get accelerated very much. In fact, I seem to recall a Mythbusters where they were exploding rounds with a microwave and couldn't get the exploded round to even make much of a mark on the inside of the oven. Once they put it in a gun, though, the bullet made quick work of the oven door.
Click to expand...

You need to talk to my son who was sitting near a campfire when someone threw a .22lr into the fire. It went off and hit his index finger. His finger is deformed with a large chunk missing and there is still shrapnel buried in his bone.

If it had hit is face or any other part of his body, there would have been real problems.

I watched that Mythbusters and it's crap. I know from personal experience.
 
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Mythbusters did a whole episode on this one (this case the rounds were set off in an oven). Basically unless the round is in a gun there is little to no danger. Even a 50 cal. round was used - they figured it would give you a bad day - but probably not kill you.
 
45 acp said:
Sounds like BS to me.
Click to expand...

Roger that. [rolleyes]

IF - again, if - a cartridge discharged when the box of ammo was dropped, there would be a split case, the primer might be blown out of the case (there being nothing to hold it in) and the bullet would be sooty and almost intact.

If they find an intact case with the primer in it, it will be apparent numb-nuts fired his gun while fumbling around with it en route to the range.
 
Wasn't there also a news story this year where a little kid got hurt by flying brass pieces when a box of rounds dropped off their kitchen counter? Like anything else, its probably more horribly bad luck than anything else. More people are probably hurt by dropping dishes in their kitchen than dropped rounds of ammo....
 
There is chance this was a more typical negligent discharge, but the shooter concocted the "dropped box of ammo" story. As to non-police using police ranges - I have heard that many years ago Natick let town residents use the range under the Chief Arena regime.
 
Scrivener said:
Roger that. [rolleyes]

IF - again, if - a cartridge discharged when the box of ammo was dropped, there would be a split case, the primer might be blown out of the case (there being nothing to hold it in) and the bullet would be sooty and almost intact.

If they find an intact case with the primer in it, it will be apparent numb-nuts fired his gun while fumbling around with it en route to the range.
Click to expand...

According to the article they did find the bullet...

Officers found the .45-caliber round behind seating by windows near the main entrance on the west side of the law enforcement building. It was undamaged and appeared not to have struck anything before settling behind the window seating. When a round goes off outside a chamber, the force behind the shell may be dissipated, officers said.
Click to expand...

If it was discharged from a firearm it would have rifling marks on it.
 
Pilgrim said:
You need to talk to my son who was sitting near a campfire when someone threw a .22lr into the fire. It went off and hit his index finger. His finger is deformed with a large chunk missing and there is still shrapnel buried in his bone.

If it had hit is face or any other part of his body, there would have been real problems.

I watched that Mythbusters and it's crap. I know from personal experience.
Click to expand...

could the lighting of the .22 round.. being it would be like a firecracker.. cause something to fly out.. even maybe the shell casing itself?

Remember.. the shell is much lighter then the bullet.. when it explodes.. physics is going to tell you that the lighter item is going to take more of the impact.. I see the casing being more of a flying weapon then the bullet itself...
 
Cherokee_Outlaw said:
could the lighting of the .22 round.. being it would be like a firecracker.. cause something to fly out.. even maybe the shell casing itself?

Remember.. the shell is much lighter then the bullet.. when it explodes.. physics is going to tell you that the lighter item is going to take more of the impact.. I see the casing being more of a flying weapon then the bullet itself...
Click to expand...


The Dr pulled lead out of the wound before he sewed it up. There is still lead in his bone.

We wondered about that too. My son later found the casing.
 
Fsorrent said:
Does that apply to polygonal barrels?
Click to expand...

Yes, but the impressions aren't as clearly defined or crisp as traditional broach cut or button cut rifling.

I'm not certain how far along ballistics/firearms forensics technology has progressed, but when polygonal rifling first came out it was difficult (if not impossible), for examiners to link a fired round to a specific gun.

Edit to add... pic of bullet with polygonal rifling impressions.

polygonal.jpg
 
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Theory: Handloads, high (improperly seated) Federal (soft, easy to ignite) primer,and the "box" was not a styrofoam factory box but rather a reloader's box with no cushioning? I could see an unlucky drop firing a cartridge in this case.
 
Some people on the Bullseye-L list have reported that they have had reloaded rounds go off that were just sitting on the bench.
All 45's. The primer may have been damaged during reloading and a very slight shock set it off.
 
In the early 80's, I have a Colt jr .25, had a spare mag in my pocket. pulled the spare out along with some loose bills. the follower had gotten caught on a burr inside the mag, the rounds got loose & fell into my hand, then the follower released discharging one of the rounds still in the mag.
BOOM! basically the sidewall of the case explodes outward...shrapnel in my left hand. The hospital scene & Watertown, Belmont & Camb PD is a whole 'nother story!

I was told Mass State PD tried to recreate the incident and was using the example in their training.

[grin]
 

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