Deputy at Florida school 'never went in' during shooting, sheriff says

[NHPatriot]

ftr...I didn't say I wouldn't do my best to thwart the attack...I was saying that 95% of people would probably say 'eff this, above my paygrade.'

Hold on, this is exactly what you said:

Can you blame him?

A service pistol versus an AR?

Sorry, what you said and what you said you were saying isn't even close. Clearly the answer to the question from your perspective was that we could not blame him, which is ridiculous on its face if he really stood down, clearly implying that having a service pistol justified not engaging someone with an AR. Then you launch into this diatribe to try and obfuscate that point:

i know nothing of the situation, but if he was told to hold fast for backup than he probably did the right thing. two sets of eyes on any situation is probably better than 100% of an advantage over a single person.

Hold fast for backup is probably the right thing? So the body count can grow while he does nothing? Do you need more sets of eyes to look at the dead bodies of the students?

i haven't seen so much as a news clip on this whole thing I care so little...so please excuse my ignorance.

all you washed up middle aged keyboard warriors out there feel free to flame 'me' for being a coward (even though I wasn't talking about ME) when you've probably never done a damn heroic thing in your life either...and would VERY likely do the same damn thing this sheriff did. I forget how tough all you guys are here (sarcasm).

some of the guys on this site are REAL bad asses...me, i've never even had a chance to prove myself in a situation that would require me to act one way or the other...so I won't pretend like I would automatically go into BAMF mode and B-line for the shooter and tear his jugular out with my teeth. I would HOPE that I would fall back on training and wouldn't even have to think about anything. but then again, one never knows until faced with a situation like that.

i think a lot of you guys out there would learn a lot about yourselves the next time you're at the range...put your pistol down on the firing line and back up 10 paces...do side straddle hops (jumping jacks) for 1 single minute...no rest time, step up to your pistol and try to get a round on paper...not so easy anymore with all that adrenaline in your body is it? lost some acute motor function in your extremities, did you?

yes...I'm a Marine...a 7+ year reservist POG with no time in combat and a single 'deployment' to Japan. I don't pretend to be anything I'm not...but i'll let those of you here that think of yourself as bad asses continue to live your pipe dreams (does NOT apply to everyone, obviously).

Kids were bleeding out and more were being shot. You are tossing out ad hominem attacks to people who find your line of thinking appalling and then move on to talking about adrenaline effects, as if that has more importance than engaging and suppressing an active shooter, adrenaline or no adrenaline.

I am no hero. But if someone is put in that situation, I can't possibly see standing down as a viable option. And defending the notion of standing down in that situation is appalling.

 

[kevin9]

cams, I understood perfectly what you were trying to say. Sometimes, some people (a small minority here, at most), are looking for a reason to argue.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Shootings present an interesting choice. Do schools go with a wide-window approach to doors to make it more difficult for teachers to sexually abuse children without witnesses or use small or absent windows to make it more difficult to shoot in. Decisions, decisions.

I do know of one papist church that replaced all the classroom doors in their family indoctrination center with one having huge windows (about 2x2 in the upper half of the door) for exactly this reason, so this is not a mere theoretical question.

 

[Sprocket]

Sounds like he won't be 'protecting and serving' anyone moving forward. I highly doubt ANY police department (in the US at least) would consider hiring him now.

"Protecting and Serving - Himself"

 

[Bmcl322]

When a child's life is involved, our lives mean nothing. I would give my life in an instant for any child, and I have children that need me. That said, they would always know their Dad died for all the right reasons. A good death is it's own reward!

 

[cams]

You knew the assignment when you took the job.

I agree 100%. I’ve eaten my share of them and never complained about it, but that was my point, he should have taken a big bite, conducted a ball check and done his GD job.

 

[TayNinh_66]

I have not been in a close quarters gunfight but I have done enough in my life requiring balls I am 90% certain I would have run in on the shooter until the range was two feet.

When bullets are zipping by a few inches over your head and you're trying to make yourself 1/4" high, it's hard to move. Overcoming fear isn't easy. Having a Lt or Sgt screaming at you helps. I won't judge the deputy. He probably never fired a shot in the face of danger. Apparently wasn't cut out for the job. I'm not sure he would have made a huge difference. Cruz did a lot of damage in several minutes.

 

[whacko]

He signed up for the job. Yes, I blame him.

He has no legal mandate to put his life on the line to protect anybody! He's a cop.....not a Soldier or Marine. This is why I puke in my mouth a little every time a f***ing cop uses the word "civilian" when referring to people that are non law enforcement! Cops are civilians also!

 

[whacko]

I agree 100%. I’ve eaten my share of them and never complained about it, but that was my point, he should have taken a big bite, conducted a ball check and done his GD job.

it's not his job! He's a f***ing cop not in the military. Cops have no legal mandate to risk their lives to protect anybody.

Sure most cops would do it and that's what they took the job for......but they have no mandate to protect anyone.

 

[whacko]

"Protecting and Serving - Himself"

The guy quit he was not fired.....because they can't fire him for not risking his life. If he was fired he'd win a law suit in a nano second.

That said.......yeah he probably won't get another job in LE........and that's fine.

 

[mibro]

When bullets are zipping by a few inches over your head and you're trying to make yourself 1/4" high, it's hard to move. Overcoming fear isn't easy. Having a Lt or Sgt screaming at you helps. I won't judge the deputy. He probably never fired a shot in the face of danger. Apparently wasn't cut out for the job. I'm not sure he would have made a huge difference. Cruz did a lot of damage in several minutes.

This did not require a frontal assault on a fixed position, it's more than likely Cruz would have dropped his weapon at the first sign of armed opposition as he clearly did not intend to die, just get some attention for his problems. If you were lucky enough to approach him from behind it would have been over in three seconds. [I was a Lt in an airborne regiment btw so I would have been the one doing the screaming.]

I dunno, the internet is jammed with theoretical tough guys but even at my age now I just can't see myself doing nothing.

 

[weekendracer]

The guy quit he was not fired.....because they can't fire him for not risking his life. If he was fired he'd win a law suit in a nano second.

That said.......yeah he probably won't get another job in LE........and that's fine.

Conduct unbecoming. It's the death blow to anyone in LE. It's almost impossible to disprove and have seen people with termination papers against them for it.

 

[Tim_McD]

I cannot believe nor condone the behavior of this gutless puke, but I do have one question: resigned or retired

I do not take how it is being replaced at face value, I would like to know definitively

 

[M60]

it's not his job! He's a f***ing cop not in the military. Cops have no legal mandate to risk their lives to protect anybody.

Sure most cops would do it and that's what they took the job for......but they have no mandate to protect anyone.

I hear you. They have no obligation to protect and serve, but if that's the case, shouldn't the slogan on the cruisers be changed to " no obligation to protect and serve ". Maybe we can get some dems to start a push for a truth in slogan law.

 

[76Too]

Kids were bleeding out and more were being shot. You are tossing out ad hominem attacks to people who find your line of thinking appalling and then move on to talking about adrenaline effects, as if that has more importance than engaging and suppressing an active shooter, adrenaline or no adrenaline.

I am no hero. But if someone is put in that situation, I can't possibly see standing down as a viable option. And defending the notion of standing down in that situation is appalling.

10 to 1 you'd do the same thing this guy did...that's my bet that will never proved right or wrong I realize, but statistically you really think you (personally) would run in there gun drawn and ready to fight? I doubt it, dude.

You know some fancy words that I don't, and you're probably pretty right on pulling apart how I actually feel (that is to say that I could probably care less about these sorts of things unless it is effecting me directly), but I think you need a little more perspective on how piss poor this dudes training ACTUALLY is. I know in the Corps I've not had NEARLY enough training to feel comfortable going into combat. I can hit center black off-hand with an M16 but it doesn't mean I'd be any good in a gun fight. I can throw a guy over my shoulder in MCMAP, but I doubt I'd EVER be able to pull that shit off in an actual hand to hand.

I AM kind of an adrenaline junky and would probably take the shot at playing hero in this guys situation, but I doubt i'd do as well as I'd hope. I don't blame this dude one bit for being a pussy, probably KNOWING that he would not be able to handle the situation...at that point isn't he just making himself a liability in the situation? Not nearly as many people would do what you would HOPE they would do, is what I'm getting at...and I doubt you would either...no matter how appalling (I do know that word though).

 

[devldog131]

He was a deputy, a sworn officer. His only job was to protect the innocent from the malevolent. Did he?

No. The cowardly P.O.S. hid as shots rang out and and children died. He is a disgrace to law enforcement and a worthless human being.

 

[42!]

I cannot believe nor condone the behavior of this gutless puke, but I do have one question: resigned or retired

I do not take how it is being replaced at face value, I would like to know definitively

Media says Retired, so his pension is safe....

 

[Picton]

I agree 100%. I’ve eaten my share of them and never complained about it, but that was my point, he should have taken a big bite, conducted a ball check and done his GD job.

Fair enough.

 

[cams]

it's not his job! He's a f***ing cop not in the military. Cops have no legal mandate to risk their lives to protect anybody.

Sure most cops would do it and that's what they took the job for......but they have no mandate to protect anyone.

It is his job, he’s an armed and uniformed presence there being paid to and has been trained to, specifically, keep the peace and protect life and property.

 

[Jason Flare]

He was a deputy, a sworn officer. His only job was to protect the innocent from the malevolent. Did he?

No. The cowardly P.O.S. hid as shots rang out and and children died. He is a disgrace to law enforcement and a worthless human being.

The police have no legal requirement to protect anybody. He is not a disgrace to law enforcement. He is law enforcement.

 

[Them Apples]

Not sure how in the hell this guy will ever live with himself. Every person known to him will know that he was the coward that wouldn't perform his job when it mattered the most. Absolutely f'n pathetic!!

 

[whacko]

He was a deputy, a sworn officer. His only job was to protect the innocent from the malevolent. Did he?

No. The cowardly P.O.S. hid as shots rang out and and children died. He is a disgrace to law enforcement and a worthless human being.

No he did not have a duty to respond. that was decided by the supreme Court in 2005. Police have no duty to respond and risk their life according to scotus ruling.

 

[whacko]

It is his job, he’s an armed and uniformed presence there being paid to and has been trained to, specifically, keep the peace and protect life and property.

Scotus said he does not have to protect anybody in 2005!

 

[Jason Flare]

Not sure how in the hell this guy will ever live with himself. Every person known to him will know that he was the coward that wouldn't perform his job when it mattered the most. Absolutely f'n pathetic!!

I agree that his life is practically over for the fact that he didn’t respond to the shooter, but it was never his job to protect anyone.

 

[Them Apples]

I agree that his life is practically over for the fact that he didn’t respond to the shooter, but it was never his job to protect anyone.

Yeah right, keep telling yourself that.

 

[Jason Flare]

Admin. posted that 100% of the members here at NES understood that the police have no duty to protect.

There is evidence that he may have overestimated.

 

[Radtekk]

So many things to say.... Actually, I hope he shows the same lack of balls tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that. I hope he lives to a ripe old age, remembering EVERY SINGLE MOTHERf***ING DAY what a completely worthless piece of shit he is. I don't care what the ROE are, even though they apparently say "Attack fast" or similar. Conscience, morals, values, self-respect, HUMANITY demand that a passerby, a teacher, a SWORN PEACE OFFICER put their life ahead of DYING CHILDREN. I don't have to posture, pose, presume, whatever to know that I would go. I know what I would feel if I DIDN'T go.

No, it's not the same, and I'm older, fatter, and slower, but back in the day I bounced in bars. All kinds. From dive go-go bars to high-end clubs where I wore an earpiece and a suit. And no matter WHO the dude was, or how big, or how many, I never, EVER backed down. And yeah, I took my share of beatings.

Forget all the posing, posturing, hurr-durr rhetoric. Dude, when you accepted that FIRST paycheck however many years ago you signed a contract. With every single kid that died that day. You SWORE to protect them. You didn't. I don't care why. You stood there and listened while they died. There is finally somebody walking this earth who I have less use for than my ex-wife, and that's saying a LOT. I don't care how many times you did something good, heroic, hard, whatever. That day you failed. You are deserving of no more, nor less, than the enduring contempt of every single person you meet. You should NOT be allowed to own a firearm, or a knife, or rope, or a car and a garden hose. You should not be allowed to change your name to escape people knowing exactly who you are. I hope you go deaf from the screams and drill holes in your eardrums to try and make it stop. I hope you gouge your eyes out to try to stop seeing the carnage YOU allowed to happen. I hope you die lonely, broken, alone, 100 years from now, reliving your cowardice every day. Truly, f*** YOU.

 

[Fixxah]

Any pools going on how many days before he offs himself?

 

[Nick Fury]

Thats a whole lot of deflective hot air posted that has yet to address this...

Can you blame him?

A service pistol versus an AR?

No amount of armchair insulting is gonna get that ship back to port. Maybe try a minute of jumping jacks and then post: "That was an inaccurate and inappropriate off the cuff remark. Sorry bout that..."

 

[Boris]

Any pools going on how many days before he offs himself?

probably the same as Lon Loriuchi. I bet he moves to Mexico where his pension buys him enough tequila and cheap hookers not too worry about it too much.