Consealed Carry Insurance

drgrant

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Maybe you should, they are much more confusing than plans for self defense.
No, they're not, given that if you choose either of those poorly you probably won't end up in jail as a result of it.

I'm just suspicious of these things because there's always a catch.....

I'm not well off either, but I'm not going to blow $40 a month (or whatever it is) without thoroughly vetting them out.

-Mike
 

Len-2A Training

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Acujeff,

I think for full disclosure you should state that you are a registered agent for Second Call insurance, with a vested interest in the "product".

I sat thru that webinar also and NRA wanted me to sign up to sell this "product". I intentionally chose NOT to get involved.

Your statement below is sadly useless:
After you call 911, your second call is to Second Call Defense so emergency services start even before police arrive to make sure your rights are protected.
I don't know if you thought of this or it is part of Second Call's canned sales pitch but there will NOT be a "second call" coming from you. 911 will keep you on the phone until the police arrive, which minimizes your chances of being shot by the police. And the police will confiscate your phone and put you under arrest (very typically in MA), holding your phone as potential evidence.

So unless that 2nd call is from a friend that witnesses the event to Second Call, you won't be notifying anyone before the police attempt to interrogate you.

That's the way the real world of a shooting rolls, it isn't hollyweird here.
 

Garys

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Just as I have auto insurance because I plan to ram my car into another car. Or have homeowners because I plan to burn my house down.

Makes sense.

My assumption is that in the civil case the attorneys will use the fact that you bought this type of insurance as an indication that you intended to shoot somebody.

As for me, I have umbrella coverage that covers anything I am liable for that isn't criminal. $2 MM is less than $300 if you don't own boats and ATV's.
 

drgrant

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I think the difference, though, is that a fire or a car accident is unintentional, whereas shooting someone takes an affirmative act on your part. I think this is a key differentiator.

In any case, the statement you quote was part serious, part sarcasm, as based on my experience with lawyers, they will interpret anything you say or do as proof of ill intentions and use it to fatten up the inevitable settlement.
Civil actions in the wake of SD shootings are mostly ayoob glue fume products, contrary to popular belief. Not impossible but generally not worth going FR over.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I think for full disclosure you should state that you are a registered agent for Second Call insurance, with a vested interest in the "product".
Note his affiliate id in the link he provided in his post.

So unless that 2nd call is from a friend that witnesses the event to Second Call, you won't be notifying anyone before the police attempt to interrogate you.
True, however, it is a simple matter to refuse interrogation until you have counsel present. Anyone with enough forthought to have a legal plan in place should have this issue pre-thought out and not fall victim to "I want to explain I am the good guy so this all goes away quickly".

Remember, when the cops say "Tell us what happened so we can all go home", the "we" they are referring to is the interrogation team - you are not part of that "we".
 
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Acujeff

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Acujeff,

I think for full disclosure you should state that you are a registered agent for Second Call insurance, with a vested interest in the "product".

I sat thru that webinar also and NRA wanted me to sign up to sell this "product". I intentionally chose NOT to get involved.

Your statement below is sadly useless:

I don't know if you thought of this or it is part of Second Call's canned sales pitch but there will NOT be a "second call" coming from you. 911 will keep you on the phone until the police arrive, which minimizes your chances of being shot by the police. And the police will confiscate your phone and put you under arrest (very typically in MA), holding your phone as potential evidence.

So unless that 2nd call is from a friend that witnesses the event to Second Call, you won't be notifying anyone before the police attempt to interrogate you.

That's the way the real world of a shooting rolls, it isn't hollyweird here.
I believe the real consequences is the point of this thread. After the emotional and physical ordeal of successfully defending yourself with a firearm, you are going to have to go through the ordeal of defending yourself again with the legal system, especially in a blue state, like MA. If you are a gun owner, it's in your best interests to have a plan and some appropriate resources. You can try to handle things yourself and leave it to the legal system to sort it out but that's very risky. I don't think anyone, except law enforcement, recommends being interrogated without legal representation.

At some point you are going to need legal representation to protect your rights, stay out of jail or get out of jail. It's likely to cost a lot of money, especially if not handled properly right away. Second Call Defense chose their name and organized to provide "immediate" legal and financial resources to gun owners that continue all the way through completion of criminal and civil litigation.

After talking to criminal defense lawyers and checking out the other organizations, I chose SCD because I think it offers the best legal and financial resources and I am posting the info and my findings. I think it’s a good thing to discuss the issue, benefits and options on the forum. Gun owners are intelligent enough to decide for themselves what they need and want.

Perhaps you can tell us what you dislike about SCD, where it is lacking or fails in their services and resources? Please advise us what you recommend instead in the event of an armed self defense event and how to handle the legal consequences?
 
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Len-2A Training

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I already know who I'd hire and he's damn expensive, but he's also one of the few best attorneys in that business. His number is on my cell, house phone directory and my Wife's cell phone.

Working with attorneys, I've learned that just because they are listed as "specializing" in something does not make them good, and if I ever have to defend myself I want the very best representation as my life depends on it!!

Neither you or I have any clue who SCD would be sending to represent us.

I didn't like the hard-sell by SCD on instructors to sell their program. When I teach I want to look out for the best interest of my students and if I'm selling a "product", I have a vested interest (the meager commission they give you) in recommending someone/something instead of recommending the very best.
 

Acujeff

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I already know who I'd hire and he's damn expensive, but he's also one of the few best attorneys in that business. His number is on my cell, house phone directory and my Wife's cell phone.

Working with attorneys, I've learned that just because they are listed as "specializing" in something does not make them good, and if I ever have to defend myself I want the very best representation as my life depends on it!!

Neither you or I have any clue who SCD would be sending to represent us.

I didn't like the hard-sell by SCD on instructors to sell their program. When I teach I want to look out for the best interest of my students and if I'm selling a "product", I have a vested interest (the meager commission they give you) in recommending someone/something instead of recommending the very best.
Just because you know of a attorney, or carry his card, doesn’t mean he can, or will, respond to you immediately after an armed self defense event. It doesn't mean he is knowledgeable about that state's lethal force and firearms laws. What if your armed self defense occurs in a different state than your attorney's practice? It's good you have a plan and attorney, but as you agree, it will cost you a lot of money. It's also good you can afford it, but what about those of us who cannot afford the best legal services money can buy?

That's why organizations offering some combination of legal and financial services for armed self defense have formed. They are starting and growing because there has been an absence of adequate specific coverage and services anywhere else for gun owners. The best ones are started and run by pro-RKBA legal and insurance professionals and provide the money for your own attorney or access to the best lethal force criminal defense attorneys in the jurisdiction the event occurs. This gives the gun owner the most options and the resources to pay for them.
 
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There is a legal 'insurance' plan offered to employees of many companies here in MA and nationwide.

Pre-paid Legal, I think it was called.

Back when I was an employee years and years ago, I had it. It was useful when I got a speeding ticket in NC (had to show up or send an attorney). Saved me the cost of hiring an attorney for the day.

Also had to divorce my wife way back when. Was worthless for that. All in all, waste of money and a false sense of security.

I think this gun insurance is worth less than that.

Like Len said, I want the very best, and I'll wait for him to call me back, and keep my trap shut until then.


PS: I think the company, Pre-Paid Legal was run out of business for bad business practices. Quick google and they don't show up. This 'second call" thing sounds like the same scam.

I'll just stick to follow Andrew Branca's advice in his book and try not to shoot nobody who don't need shooting. And then keep my mouth shut.

Did I mention keeping your mouth shut is the most important thing?

Just trying to drill that point home. Wait for your attorney.

ETA: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/question-are-prepaid-legal-service-plans-28184.html

So, skip this insurance. Likely not worth it.
 
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Len-2A Training

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Just because you know of a attorney, or carry his card, doesn’t mean he can, or will, respond to you immediately after an armed self defense event. It doesn't mean he is knowledgeable about that state's lethal force and firearms laws. What if your armed self defense occurs in a different state than your attorney's practice? It's good you have a plan and attorney, but as you agree, it will cost you a lot of money. It's also good you can afford it, but what about those of us who cannot afford the best legal services money can buy?

That's why organizations offering some combination of legal and financial services for armed self defense have formed. They are starting and growing because there has been an absence of adequate specific coverage and services anywhere else for gun owners. The best ones are started and run by pro-RKBA legal and insurance professionals and provide the money for your own attorney or access to the best lethal force criminal defense attorneys in the jurisdiction the event occurs. This gives the gun owner the most options and the resources to pay for them.
You're still "selling" this product. I find the hard sell a turn-off and SCD did that to me.

The attorney I'm referring to is one that is expert in this field.

The irony is that it looks like my Wife's former fitness trainer is married to this attorney's son! Just confirmed that by checking LinkedIn for the attorney.

Admittedly he may not be the one to use for non-MA SD cases, but I bet he knows his peers in the other states that I might travel to.

My solution isn't for everyone but I still prefer to stay neutral as an instructor rather than pushing a "product" for a commission to my students.
 

Lopro

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Thank you all for your opinions on this subject , I need to research this information and come up with a plan that will work for me , you all gave me a lot to think about.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Accujeff -

In the interest of full disclosure, can you tell us what, if any, compensation you receive if someone signs up through the link with your affiliate ID?

And, is it like a multi-level marketing arrangement where any new Second Chance member can become an affiliate and collect a commission on people they sign up?

Is there any independent auditing of the Second Call books to give some sort of assurance they have the funds to pay out; are not paying their founders excessive compensation; are backed by an insurance policy (in the even claims exceed revenue); and have a track record of payment?

Civil actions in the wake of SD shootings are mostly ayoob glue fume products, contrary to popular belief. Not impossible but generally not worth going FR over.
Bernie Goetz would disagree.

There is a legal 'insurance' plan offered to employees of many companies here in MA and nationwide.

Pre-paid Legal, I think it was called.
There are legit prepaid legal services, for example ARAG and Hyatt. I had ARAG at work and used them for a house closing - case approval with one day, and the attorney I used (picked from a big list) didn't charge me anything.

BUT, these mainstream prepaid plans are generally good for "family legal" stuff - house closings, wills, trusts, etc. They are not designed for criminal defense. They generally include some sort of discount (ARAG was 25%) on the hourly rate for non-covered legal work, but will not fund a major criminal case.
 
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Acujeff

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Accujeff -

In the interest of full disclosure, can you tell us what, if any, compensation you receive if someone signs up through the link with your affiliate ID?

And, is it like a multi-level marketing arrangement where any new Second Chance member can become an affiliate and collect a commission on people they sign up?

Is there any independent auditing of the Second Chance books to give some sort of assurance they have the funds to pay out; are not paying their founders excessive compensation; are backed by an insurance policy (in the even claims exceed revenue); and have a track record of payment?

I became a recruiter to let friends at my gun club know about it and get a rebate on the first month free with my web link code. The fees are the same whether they use the code or not. I get credited if they do and SCD pays me about $1.50. It’s not much and it just gets donated to gun organizations. Use the link if you want the rebate.

I encourage folks to get knowledgeable on the subject. There’s lots of good information on lethal force and the aftermath on the websites of the organizations that offer these programs. Feel free to compare their services and benefits.

Second Call Defense is backed by the NRA endorsed insurance program, administered by Lockton Affinity, LLC and underwritten by Lloyds of London which makes it securely funded and guaranteed.
 
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