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Consealed Carry Insurance

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lopro, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Lopro

    Lopro NES Member

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  2. robjax

    robjax

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    I have looked into the insurance before through other companies. can't recall the names. It was a little pricey and your coverage was tiered based on your premium. I don't know baout this company but insurance does seem a good idea in this litigious society.

    I often wonder why why don't hear of these civil suits when it's a gang banger getting caught for making a hit.....
     
  3. Bfatz

    Bfatz

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    Look if you have to pull out your firearm and actually use it in a life or death situation so be it thats what having personal protection is for, if you carry a knife and use in a similar manner there's no difference are you gonna apply for knife carrying insurance as well? all your doing is just padding the insurance companies pockets and the " Common sense gun law " nut portfolios.

    We need mental case insurance as well as I'm afraid these people in society are gonna hurt me while shopping at Market Basket...
     
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  4. Goliathan

    Goliathan NES Member

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    I'm struck by how poorly written that page is. Doesn't instill confidence, that's for sure.
     
  5. timbo

    timbo Navy Veteran NES Member

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    The problem with insurance of any kind is it usually starts out as voluntary and then these insurance companies realize they have another money stream so then it almost always becomes mandatory because of the insurance company's power over congress.

    Most insurance is nothing more than legalized extortion (think obamacare).

    - - - Updated - - -

    I noticed that too...If they can't take time to proofread their web page, it shows their inattention to detail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  6. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 NES Member

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    Normally I'd agree with you but there are a couple of legitimate "insurance" policies out there that are specifically geared towards getting you money to obtain a lawyer after you've been involved in a self defense shooting. There was a very long thread on this here on NES last year sometime and there were a couple good options given. After review I joined the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network. http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/home-page

    It's basically a group of firearm owners who have gotten together to provide a service which includes an immediate deposit to your account to obtain a lawyer, bail if you are arrested and further payments for a log term legal battle. Cost to join is minimal compared to the money you'll pay out if involved in a shooting. Plus they send out a significant amount of training and legal videos that you get when you become a member. The videos alone are worth more then the fee to join.

    Give them a look over. I think there are more then a few here that are members as well.
     
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  7. bill o

    bill o

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    I think the style is for search engine optimization.
     
  8. robjax

    robjax

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    ....and the insurance said if the firearm was legal and you had legal authority to be carrying in that jurisdiction you would be covered. Otherwise you will not be covered for that incident.

    maybe GOAL and the NRA should seek to implement legislation whereas any and all acts of self defense are held harmless from any civil action/liability with the government covering any and all legal costs to the defender. After all, we would have been doing the job of law enforcement in that instance.

    If the gov was paying for you defense too then they might be more inclined or get more pressure to actually make sure they aren't bringing charges to see if whatever they throw against the wall sticks...

    And sanctions to any DA who would be going on a witch hunt against legal gun owners.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  9. JayMcB

    JayMcB NES Member

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    That style doesn't excuse the bad spelling.
     
  10. Rider

    Rider

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    My assumption is that in the civil case the attorneys will use the fact that you bought this type of insurance as an indication that you intended to shoot somebody.

    As for me, I have umbrella coverage that covers anything I am liable for that isn't criminal. $2 MM is less than $300 if you don't own boats and ATV's.
     
  11. tk421991

    tk421991

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    The NRA also offers an insurance policy program.
     
  12. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 NES Member

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    Actually I think it shows that you have thought through what the possibilities are and have shown forethought to provide coverage for you and your family. You have home insurance in case of theft/fire and you have car insurance in case of an accident. You don't want any of that to happen but know that having no insurance could financially wreck you. Same with self defense insurance. You don't want to shoot anyone, but if forced too you have coverage.
     
  13. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    you spelled concealed wrong [smile]
     
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  14. MAGG

    MAGG NES Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. deces

    deces

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    Move to a state with strong stand your ground & castle doctrine laws.
     
  16. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    Are you covered only for firearms-related self-defense incidents, or any self-defense incidents?
     
  17. Rider

    Rider

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    I think the difference, though, is that a fire or a car accident is unintentional, whereas shooting someone takes an affirmative act on your part. I think this is a key differentiator.

    In any case, the statement you quote was part serious, part sarcasm, as based on my experience with lawyers, they will interpret anything you say or do as proof of ill intentions and use it to fatten up the inevitable settlement.
     
  18. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 NES Member

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    I've always taken it to mean firearms in self defense but reading through the site a bit they specify self defense but do not specify what you used for self defense. Good question though.
     
  19. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    A good attorney would stand a very good chance of having this information excluded from trial as prejudicial and irrelevant.
     
  20. Acujeff

    Acujeff NES Member

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    Most of the organizations covering armed self defense actually involve a membership offering either financial coverage or legal services or both. Some programs cover criminal defense but not civil legal defense costs or judgments.

    The best ones are started and run by pro-RKBA legal and insurance professionals because there has been an absence of adequate specific coverage and services anywhere else for gun owners. Most conventional liability and homeowners insurance do not cover criminal charges or the intentional act of armed self defense. It is for that reason anyone knowledgeable on the subject - gun organizations, writers, instructors, and attorneys are recommending armed self defense programs as an important part of an adequate self defense plan.

    Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc. is an excellent organization but it is mostly geared towards education. It offers referral to a legal network but the only guaranteed financial benefits are a retainer for the lawyer. Members must apply for a grant for any further criminal defense costs, which are likely to be considerable more. Importantly, they offer no benefits at all for civil suits.

    I think Second Call Defense offers the most comprehensive services and coverage. It is managed exclusively by gun rights defense attorneys and advocates. Second Call Defense is backed by the NRA endorsed insurance program, administered by Lockton Affinity, LLC and underwritten by Lloyds of London.

    For more info:
    http://www.secondcalldefense.org/?affiliate=20084

    If you join via the website you get a rebate of your first month payment.
     
  21. 95North

    95North

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    Most of these polices only offer to reimburse you for attorney's fees after you are found not guilty. So you will be on your own to come up with a retainer at the outset of the case. The policy is useless should you enter into a plea agreement to mitigate the risk of going to trial. Definitely read the policy carefully before you buy.
     
  22. Acujeff

    Acujeff NES Member

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    Getting the best legal services and the money to pay for it, as soon as possible, will usually determine if the aftermath of armed self defense become complicated and catastrophic. Most gun owners are not prepared, legally or financially, to deal with the legal system. One reason Zimmerman's case was so abusive, lengthy and expensive was he didn't have appropriate legal resources right away.

    If you have appropriate legal resources "before" the police arrive you have the best chance of protecting your rights and minimizing the complications. After a traumatic self defense incident the worst plan is to deal with law enforcement by yourself or first go looking for legal and financial resources from jail.

    I was using the NRA Self Defense Insurance previously but it always bothered me that it provided no upfront finances or legal services. You had to find your own attorney and legal resources, pay out of pocket and eventually get reimbursed.

    I switched to Second Call Defense which offers better criminal and civil coverage but also includes a full range of emergency and immediate resources such as 24/7 access to legal services, bond, attorney referral and retainer, crisis management, and other necessary legal and financial services to protect your rights. After you call 911, your second call is to Second Call Defense so emergency services start even before police arrive to make sure your rights are protected. They will pay for your own lawyer, or find you the right defense lawyer wherever you are in the US.

    If you browse around their website there is a lot of good information on the aftermath of armed self defense.

    http://www.secondcalldefense.org/?affiliate=20084

    If you decide to join on the website you can get a rebate on the first month of membership. It's like getting the 1st month free. You can cancel, or change, anytime.
     
  23. ccm75

    ccm75 NES Member

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    Your homeowners policy and applicable umbrella will cover you for accidents and injury/damages caused to others by your "negligence". If your insurance company determines that you acted intentionally - count on a denial of coverage....

    So if you shoot someone and get sued, you better be prepared to present facts that point to an accidental shooting or you are going to be left swinging in the wind.
     
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  24. jkelly1229

    jkelly1229

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    Sure let me get my unicorn to give my leprechaun a ride to his pot of gold and then we can sit down and write the law down together lol.
     
  25. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    I bet most of the companies that purport to offer such insurance have about 9000 escape clauses. IMHO you're probably better off taking that money and using it to do something else to increase your safety in other ways, it'll probably pay bigger dividends.

    -Mike
     
  26. the_shootist

    the_shootist Banned

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    I got this far without it, I'll take my chances
     
  27. Acujeff

    Acujeff NES Member

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    Most gun owners put an awful lot of thought and work into our guns, how to own and use them legally, and even how to prepare for self defense. But most gun owners have no comprehensive plan how to deal with the aftermath of armed self defense.

    Unfortunately, even when you have legally and justifiably used a firearm in self-defense (even if you didn't fire a shot) you may have to defend yourself a second time in the legal system. You can't depend on the law enforcement system to protect your rights or justify your self defense. Their job is to investigate and place blame.

    You will be investigated and can be arrested. You'll have to immediately find a gun rights attorney, money for bail and attorney retainer, and begin a defense against criminal charges. Self defense, castle doctrine and stand your ground are legal "defenses" not get out of jail free cards.

    You can lose your job and get bankrupted by legal fees. You could spend years in jail. Without a proper legal defense and the money to pay for it, you could literally lose everything.

    Even if you're not charged, the charges are dropped or you win the criminal case, you can lose your home, savings, and personal property in a civil case by the criminal who attacked you, or by the surviving family. They have nothing to lose and you have everything to lose. It seems the legal system almost encourages them, especially the "I get a share" attorneys.

    In the gun magazines and websites, Massad Ayoob and others, often write about the cases of justified armed self defense where the defender winds up investigated, charged, prosecuted, jailed or sued. They often recommend, as part of your self defense plan, to have a legal program in place that will deal with the aftermath. The worst plan is "I'll take my chances".
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  28. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    The problem with these insurance gigs is there's no ironclad guarantee that they'll pay out when you need them to. If anyone thinks investing in these things is a good idea I'd probably get the paperwork and pay a real attorney first to review it. If it's the type of deal where THEY choose your representation for you, that could be dangerous by itself.

    -Mike
     
  29. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    My homeowners policy excludes intentional acts except those intended to protect persons or property.

    It's not like you are dealing with NY Life when you buy one of these policies and, even if they have good intentions, there is no guarantee they will be financially sound enough to fund you defense when needed.
     
  30. Acujeff

    Acujeff NES Member

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    Good questions but it's not hard to understand the different benefits of the organizations covering armed self defense. Do you pay an attorney to select your auto and home insurance? Maybe you should, they are much more confusing than plans for self defense.

    If you have enough financial or legal resources of your own then there is no need for any insurance. Insurance is for those of us who don't have substantial resources. I choose one that provided financial and legal services, that I could not easily provide myself, at an affordable price. Second Call Defense pays up front and will pay for your own lawyer, or find you a qualified criminal defense lawyer.
     

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