Confused newb questions

[jasons]

Getting back to this. Even near the upper limits of the set of data I went with, my shots were coming in 2-2.75" low on the target at 100 yards. My best groups came with the load that had the groups 3-4" low on the target. (zero-ed the scope with factory lake city 5.56.) Now I'm thinking, before I just readjust my zero for the lower powered loads and develop in those ranges, if I try and stretch these out to say 200 yards, are they just going to bounce on the dirt before the target? (There were some 45 bullets that were on the ground in front of a target stand yesterday, lol, so I'm now worried about vastly under powered charges just limping out of a barrel too.)

There is no pressure signs at the high end, and I'm thinking I can go up to 25 grains like the powder jug says, and if the pattern holds true should be at my current elevation zero around 24 grains, which is about .7 grains over the Hordany book. This is 223 load data out of a 556 chamber, bolt action. Am I being dumb and reckless here or am I okay in thinking this rifle wants a hotter load than I'm currently running?

I'm a little confused. Are you saying the powder manufacturer lists a max of 25 grains with that specific bullet but the Hornady book lists something lower?

 

[Beansie]

I'm a little confused. Are you saying the powder manufacturer lists a max of 25 grains with that specific bullet but the Hornady book lists something lower?

Yes. But the powder has three or four loads, only one going to 25.

Out of my AR the loads shoot the same as factory at 23 grains. Shoot low out of the bolt gun... I'm totally baffled lol.

 

[jasons]

Yes. But the powder has three or four loads, only one going to 25.

Out of my AR the loads shoot the same as factory at 23 grains. Shoot low out of the bolt gun... I'm totally baffled lol.

Three or four loads with the exact same bullet? I see three different loads for three different bullets on their website. You have to match the bullet to the load (not just the weight of the bullet, the actual bullet type as well.)

Tell us exactly what you have for components (primer brand and type, power brand and type, bullet brand and type) and we can probably give you better advice.

 

[Beansie]

Hodgden H-335
Winchester SRP
Hordany 55g bulk bullets

 

[jasons]

Hodgden H-335
Winchester SRP
Hordany 55g bulk bullets

OK, then ignore any loads for different bullets regardless of where they come from. (For example the Hodgdon load that lists 25.3 max is for the Speer soft point.)

My book shows 23.2 max for the Hornady 55 grain bullets and H335, which should produce a velocity of 3100 fps from a test rig. There's really no reason to exceed that unless you really know what you're doing.

M193 spec ammo is moving a bit faster so it's not surprising that the zero is a bit different. If you want to attempt to duplicate M193 velocities you'll probably want to try a different powder.


EDIT: With all that said, book loads generally are on the conservative side and it is possible to safely exceed them in very specific circumstances but frankly it's not a good idea for a self described "confused newb" to try. (I mean that with no intent to offend, we all started out there as some point.)

 

[Beansie]

OK, then ignore any loads for different bullets regardless of where they come from. (For example the Hodgdon load that lists 25.3 max is for the Speer soft point.)

My book shows 23.2 max for the Hornady 55 grain bullets and H335, which should produce a velocity of 3100 fps from a test rig. There's really no reason to exceed that unless you really know what you're doing.

M193 spec ammo is moving a bit faster so it's not surprising that the zero is a bit different. If you want to attempt to duplicate M193 velocities you'll probably want to try a different powder.

Where are you seeing the spear soft point listed? Am I just missing it on the webpage?

Okay, so I just need to adjust my elevation down then on my scope?

And yeah I had the same 23.2 max as well...

Any idea why it hits in a similar place out of the AR but is low out of the bolt gun?

 

[jasons]

Where are you seeing the spear soft point listed? Am I just missing it on the webpage?

It says "55gr SPR SP," which is an abbreviated way to say "55 grain Speer Soft Point." I wish they wouldn't use abbreviations, but it is what it is.

Okay, so I just need to adjust my elevation down then on my scope?

Yeah, pretty much. Find a good (read: "safe") load that groups good and adjust your zero accordingly. I have lots of different zeros for the different loads I use. That's just part of the fun.

And yeah I had the same 23.2 max as well...

Cool. It's good to verify from different sources.

Any idea why it hits in a similar place out of the AR but is low out of the bolt gun?

Voodoo magic. I don't know different guns are just different. I have three identical clone service rifles, same barrels, same twists, same sights, same everything, even built by the same person - each of them have slightly different zeros with the exact same load.

 

[mac1911]

Where are you seeing the spear soft point listed? Am I just missing it on the webpage?

Okay, so I just need to adjust my elevation down then on my scope?

And yeah I had the same 23.2 max as well...

Any idea why it hits in a similar place out of the AR but is low out of the bolt gun?

Do not get to hung up on what 1 load does in different guns. As jasons says each gun is different.
I have 2 RRA NM uppers ordered the same day. One likes my hornady 75gn match loads I been using for a few years the other does not.
My varmint rifle with scope I have 3 loads it shoots well and just have a cheat sheet that prints out the zero's with the scopes manufactures software to fit in the scope lens cover.

"

 

[Beansie]

EDIT: With all that said, book loads generally are on the conservative side and it is possible to safely exceed them in very specific circumstances but frankly it's not a good idea for a self described "confused newb" to try. (I mean that with no intent to offend, we all started out there as some point.)

Just saw your edit, don't worry about it, I'm not offended in the slightest.




But as to what you an 1911 just said, the lower charges were grouping better anyway, so I'll work in those ranges and just adjust my elevation. The good news is all my handloads grouped better than the factory stuff so that was satisfying.

Thanks.