CMP Service Grade HRA range report. stock fit mods and tune

[mac1911]

Received my latest CMP Garand last week. CMP Service grade H&R manufactured M1 Garand. Serial dates to 1955 along with 12-55 barrel. All but the gas plug and trigger group assembly appear to be HRA. Finish is very nice and appears to be original barrel. No pitting. Came with new cmp stock set. As with all my past Garands I started with a detail strip, clean and inspection http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/detailstrip.html

On this rifle I passed on checking every part for proper specifications per http://estore.thecmp.org/store/cata...pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=

As I resembled the rifle I performed the tilt test in the various stages. This is the only video I could find that covers this. My HRA failed #2 and #4 test. The Op rod on mine rubs on the belly of the stock and along the upper hand guard on the edge along the op rod travel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIoxbtdPXY I have a Service grade Springfield that falis this test also but shoots good. Its a USGI stock so I did not mess with it. This may or may not matter depending on the amount of contact and the rifle may function just fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIoxbtdPXY

The detail strip is really good to do. Even though the rifles appear to be "clean" from the cmp they are not really clean.
1. barrel had a good amount of copper fouling. Took approx 40 patches before the "blue" tint on the patch was just faint
2. The amount of grit and crud/dust in the rear sight assembly is pretty nasty. A plus to detail strip of the rear sight is once cleaned oil and lubed the sight adjustments will be smoother and easier to turn the knobs.

Ok reassembled and lubed per CMP recommendations off to the range I go with 2 HXP 1972 en bloc clips. All I had time for. I set my targets at 50 yards as this is easier to see whats going on with the groups especially windage. Today was a function day more than anything. For the most part all functioned well. Below is the 2 groups I shot From a lead sled rifle rest. I will say this particular rifle has a nice trigger. As you will see my "7" shot groups where not terrible. I did not have time or my spotting scope to track my shots so no info for what shot did what ?

As you can see from the pics this garand is probably well with the specs for government work. The groups are very similar. 4 vertical stringing and a left and right "flyer" I am almost certain if I tracked the shots I would bet the two groups would match almost shot for shot as far as impact goes. ie: 1st shot goes left? As you see there is only 7 shots in each group. That's because on the seventh shot with both groups jammed up. Garands where know to have a 7th round issue with the early models. I can bet this is caused by the op rod binding.
I will post the mods I do along the way. I will start by fitting the wood better. There is a good amount of info out there for "accurizing the M1" I followed a article in american rifleman. I cant find a link that works right now but its out there. So far my garands have all benefited from "Accurizing". I do not do anything that will render it illegal for the JCG matches.

 

[Terrence]

mac, what kind of clips were you using? I bought some new production AEC3 clips and about half caused a 7th round stoppage. My USGI clips never cause this problem.

 

[mac1911]

What ever the clips where out of the can of hxp 1972. I a host of problems with the hxp 72 clips but never the 7th round issue. I am certain its because of the op rod hitting.
if you could emagine how the op rod spring pushes up the linkage to raise the bullets.
If you slow this down by a binding op rod the cartridges will loosely float inside the magazine with in the clip.. its hard to describe...I have a whole tin of hxp for the testing. I will retain these clips to test also. I'm going to some pics of the op rod rub spots later.
I'm going to try my best to do a step by step to see where I can take this HRA. Then I will find a hand load that does well in it.....this will be a few months in the works.

 

[Terrence]

I'd like to see the pics of the rub spots and compare them to my HRA with CMP wood. I never did the tilt test, I just cleaned and lubed her and took her to the range. I guess if you shoot your rifle enough the op rod will wear away the offending portions of the stock....but thats the half ass way to do it!

 

[majspud]

I should look at that someday. I wonder if all USGI wood generally fits to tolerances/specs.

MS

 

[mac1911]

small up date, Op rod contact points on stock



Im not very good at pictures or editing them but I did the best I could trying to show where the op rod is hitting. With the eye it stands out much better. Section 1 and 2 are where it hits the heaviest, section 3 on the right also... Its hard to pick up but look for the RED and White outlined areas

 

[Terrence]

Yup, definitely some wear and tear on those points. This new wood is so dang frustrating!

 

[Terrence]

Added pics of my stock to compare


New CMP wood from my 5.5 HRA SG. Note the 2 rub areas in the red boxes. I think these spots have rubbed just about all the park off my op rod right where the drawing and lot numbers are located. I've fired >200 rounds through this rifle. You can't tell from the pics, but the spots have a glossy 'polished' surface from contact with the op rod. Mac, how do you plan on sanding your stock down? I am going to knock these high spots down a bit.

 

[mac1911]

Yup, definitely some wear and tear on those points. This new wood is so dang frustrating!

Yes it is. It gets better even still. The new stock metal isn't any better and I found several spots where the new metal or stock is not true
I found heavy contact through the stock ferrule and lower band rubbing the op rod.
I can also see the front hand guard metal is bit out of shape this was contacting the gas cylender just behind the stacking swivel.
pics to come. Been working on it tonight.

 

[mac1911]

View attachment 46703
New CMP wood from my 5.5 HRA SG. Note the 2 rub areas in the red boxes. I think these spots have rubbed just about all the park off my op rod right where the drawing and lot numbers are located. I've fired >200 rounds through this rifle. You can't tell from the pics, but the spots have a glossy 'polished' surface from contact with the op rod. Mac, how do you plan on sanding your stock down? I am going to knock these high spots down a bit.

I was planning on getting all fancy and shit....then I remembered where my router was. Berried in the abyss. So I slapped a mini drum sander on the dremel tool. Happen to be good enough for the ferrule relief grinding also.
I used sand paper,files and various shaped items to get things done.

 

[mac1911]

1st pic is where The op rod has been contacting the lower band for some time. I relieved the band a bit with a dremel tool. I took a spare Known straight op rod to just see if the contact areas where the same. The HRA op rod is good as the contact areas are the same.
2nd pic is the new metal on the stock. it was also rubbing, relieved with dremel.
3rd pic is something my other garands have not had a problem with. when installing the gas cylender I noticed it would tweek the front upper hand guard off to the side. The small tang at the rear near the stacking swivel was contacting the ferrule, again dremel tool and files to get to clear.
I also filed off about 1/16 of an inch off the rear hand guard to relieve the contact up against the reciever. just enough to get a piece of paper in there. My camera decided to not work half way through the process.
Only place now that has any op rod contact is a very slight contact on the metal band up inside the the front hand guard. Not much you can do with that except remove the metal strap. This will allow your front hand guard to split if you grab it to move the rifle.

Caution on rear upper hand guards. When toying with the hand guard band its easy to damage the upper hand guard. I lost a small chip on one side installing it ? hard to see once installed.

So op rod is clear, barrel is clear as it can be. Handguards are not to tight. Gas cylender is tight on the splines. If any thing I hope this at least helps with at least a consistant group. My 1952 SA service grade had a verticle stringing issue. I did the same thing to it as I did here and it now groups nice 3" groups. Before it would throw rounds between 4 and 7 " verticle more so when warm.
I will test this as it is. I will dress up the crown If I feel it will improve anything.

I also have installed these on my garands
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699389/wolff-rifle-service-spring-pack-m1-garand

 

[Terrence]

+1 Great post, Mac, very informative. I need to find the motivation to sand those binding spots on my stock down and while I'm at it, I'm going to check my HRA's op rod to see if I have similar wear on the lower band. Did you apply any sealant or finish to the area where you filed the metal?
BTW if you're as fed up with new CMP stocks as I am, I found flights from Logan to Atlanta (1 1/2 hour drive to Anniston Store from ATL airport) for $160 round trip. Save your pennies and take a trip to the holy land of Garands to hand pick SG's with USGI wood.

 

[mac1911]

Believe me I have tossed that idea around many times of flying down. #1 problem is that wont really fly well with the wife....flying to buy a gun would be a toughy..

Usgi wood wont be better per say. My 1942 sa usgi stocked rifle is a tad on the loose side.

So far all 4 of my garands have improved by insuring the op rod runs free and the hand guards have some play. It is what it is. The stocks are probably good enough for government issue?

I will touch up any metal ground with cold blue. I plan on shooting this rifle and useing it. I am a "shooting" collector. This is why I don't buy very pretty highly collectable guns.

Also before you start anything on your rack to service grade garand make sure its not rare and don't mess with usgi wood with cartouches.

I should have mentioned this first. You can start with simple mode to get a bit of accuracy out of your garands. Start with this
http://www.thecmp.org/Sales/askarmorergascylinderpeen.htm
Then if you have strange patterning shot groups shoot with out your hand guards installed Also do all testing off a decent rest or sand bags. I like to use hxp for rough testing try to use the same lot/tin head stamps. Good luck.

Also. I am not a gun Smith...I have only been playing around w ith mods on my garands for a few years.

http://www.thecmp.org/Sales/askarmorerindex.htm lots of info here also

 

[Terrence]

That wouldn't go over well with my wife either. Spending a couple hundred to travel down south to spend a couple thousand? Hard to justify that expense right now. I would love to visit the South Store before they run out of M1 rifles. What we need is an NES agent to go down for us, like Magna over @ CMP forums. We could probably clean the place out of good rifles.

While your 70 year old stock is loose now, back in 42 I bet it was nice and tight and had plenty of clearance in the correct areas. These new stocks seem like quality reproductions, but I doubt some of the fit issues issues like rubbing on op rods would have been passed inspection.

It is what it is

Yep, you nailed it there dude.

 

[mac1911]

I'm going to say if the action cycled it was good to go....garands where designed to work.

 

[mac1911]

There's tons of info out there most I found over the years on cmp forum and milsurps.com. I am horrible at storing data on my computer. I seem to have a hard time finding files once they are filed?

 

[OfficerObie59]

+1 Great post, Mac, very informative.

+1

Nice group.

By the way, I use this for quick 50 yard zeros. I think I've posted it before, but I recommend adding it to a PowerPoint file so it keeps to scale. I can send you that actual ppt. file by request.

 

[mac1911]

I was a little shocked at the group especially with the rear handguard so tightly jammed against the reciever. And the gas cylender crammed up against the front hand guard. I thought for sure it would crack upon shooting. If I can get rid of those left and right sliders and keep the stringing under a few inches I'm happy

 

[mac1911]

One thing most garands would benefit from,,,,,,

new springs will help almost any garand

 

[Gator9329]

Thanks for all the info

 

[mac1911]

I'm at a stand still now. Need to get to range and see what has changed. Th

 

[mac1911]

new springs and onto the wood

the wood.
well I took it to a local wood refinisher to get and idea of what to do. It does not show in the pics but there is a light glaze film over the wood. His thoughts where what ever they used dried to fast or what stain they are mixing with the oil is not mixing well.
End result is I'm going to sand the finish off with 220 grit. See what it looks like. Then maybe hit it with some red mahogany stain then tung oil it. I might try brownells lin speed gun oil?

I replaced the op rod spring which you can see is much shorter. From all the specs I came across the op rod spring length should be min 19.0 inches Max 20.25" long. The original spring was 18.5"
Iused the Wolff brand service pack. Op rod, hammer, ejector, extractor springs along with a new clip latch spring from orion7. The Wolff op rod spring is right on the Max length of 20.25".
I have replaced all these springs in my other garands and will continue this with anyother one iget if I'm going to shoot it.
I don't expect to get to the range for several weeks. Stock work will be done now. I'm finding blocks of time to get things done faster than I thought

I just looked at the before pics. You can see the last 4" of the button stock is a solid color almost a straight line. Compared to the grain on the rest of the stock. I thought this might go away once stripped. And sanded. Once I reapplied the red mahogony stain this pattern returned..owell

 

[majspud]

All right. Got me interested enough to dismount the action and take a pic. Looks like light rubbing in two places?

A little sanding in those two areas?

MS

 

[Terrence]

Interesting, maj. Your wear spots are on the top of that channel whereas the wear on my new CMP wood was on the inside of the stock channel. Does the under side of your oprod have any abnormal wear? Have you performed the tilt test on your rifle?

I sanded the high spots off on my stock on Friday. After I sanded the area with the dremel I tested for clearance by applying a light film of grease to the part of the oprod which was hitting the stock, cycled the action several times, and then checked for grease on the stock. It took me 7 or 8 times to sand down enough until there was no grease left on the wood. I checked the stock lower band for wear and there was also some worn off finish from hitting the oprod but I decided to tackle that project another day.

 

[majspud]

You'll have to describe what the tilt test is.

Looks like very slight wear marks at the front of the op-rod above the drawing number.

Stock is USGI HRA.

MS

 

[mac1911]

Majspud...your marks don't look like they would really affect much if anything. Plus you have usgi original wood. In my original post there is a link to the tilt test.
I wouldn't modify a usgi wood with cartouches...rest assure if you buy a new stock set from cmp most likely will have some fit issues.

 

[Terrence]

Same here, I wouldn't touch that stock. The 2 wear spots don't look that bad anyways, and your op rod looks pretty good in the pics. Wanna trade your usgi hra stock for my new cmp wood?
The tilt test bascially involves removing certain components, such as the op rod spring, to see if your action will cycle smoothly (without spring power) by raising the muzzle or the buttstock.

 

[Warm_Garand]

For those with more money than time, you might consider buying a "fitted unfinished" stock from Dean's.

http://dgrguns.com/New-M1-Garand-Stocks.htm

It will provide you with a drop-in, match-fitted stock, save you quite a bit of time removing the existing finish, Dean knows his business, and he does very good work.

You can also sell your CMP stock and buy unfinished (read: no finish) stocks for $99 from Dupage Trading and fit them yourselves.

http://www.dupagetrading.com/m1-stocks/m1-stock-sets.html

Again--it saves you from spending 4 or 6 man-hours removing the existing finish.

Work the grain with 220, round off all the sharp corners, stain it with dark walnut (or red mahogany), couple coats of Tung or Linseed oil, and you have a sweet-looking stock.

NOTE: You do not sand the lockup surfaces of the rifle--the areas under the trigger group or the receiver, with the minor exception of the area just behind the receiver legs to an inch before the heel of the receiver.

If you want the look of USGI stock, you could send it off to TR Findley. He will stamp your stock with all the "correct" cartouches for any given maker and serial number, using the actual stamps. You could leave the DGR stamp in the op-rod channel so the noble, high-minded "collectors" don't freak out at you and have to start breathing into a paper bag because your $169 WWII repro stock looks (oh yeah--and shoots!) way better than their $600 collectors stock which never leaves their padded velvet-line gun safe.

But there I go again....grinding my petty little axes (lol).

Youtube video of "Tilt Test:





Take a rifle that does not pass the tilt test and fix that first--and you will generally be looking at a night-and-day difference in accuracy.

Again--the goal here is to allow for a single mechanically-repeatable harmonic every time the rifle is fired, so the rifle is vibrating in exactly the same way every time (or as close as possible) so that you are minimizing randomized variables. That's basically all "accurizing" a rifle really consists of.

 

[mac1911]

Deans fancy grade walnut stocks are very nice. 2 members at my club have some really great looking Dean stocks. to fancy for some. I would do a deans if I wanted a nice and pretty piece of wood or had 0 time and skills. I dont keep track of the time I put into my projects. I just do a hour here 20 min there between the rest of my life. rough guess is about 5 hours so far.

 

[majspud]

The rifle passes the tilt test easily both in and out of the stock. I did not bother with the 4th test, with the removal of the hammer. Op-rod spring measures 19.5".

Guess I'm good to go as is straight from CMP.

MS