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Cmp field grade specials in 308 back in stock
- Thread starter mac1911
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I feel like I should know this already, but can .308 Garands shoot full powered "regular" 308 ammunition, or do they need certain loads like their 30-06 counterparts? This is more for my own edification as I have no plans to add a 308 M1.
Seeing as there is no "correct" ammo spec, I think prudence would dictate using an adjustable gas plug for any .308 M1's
what about surplus 7.62 NATO? Too hot?
I would think 7.62 NATO of any flavor would be fine, it would be hot "hunting" .308 commercial stuff I might be concerned about.
I do load for my friend's M1A, using the "7.62 Service Rifle" loads in my manual.
45collector
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I have a special grade CMP .308 with Criterion barrel I got in a trade months back. Awesome shooter, and I'd done research beforehand to make sure I could put any flavor of 7.62/ .308 through it without worries. That is the case, and I've put several different types of ammo through it so far. All went through just fine, except one round of Santa Barbara surplus that was a f*cking SQUIB believe it or not. That was crazy. SB 7.62 NATO is pretty good surplus stuff loaded with match grade bullets. I had to assemble a stout cleaning rod to knock that bullet back through the chamber. It had made it about 2" into the rifling.
Anyhow, yeah get a .308 Garand. You will love it. Cheaper to shoot and easier on the shoulder.
Anyhow, yeah get a .308 Garand. You will love it. Cheaper to shoot and easier on the shoulder.
762 nato is on the "pooysay" side of loads for 308.
A proper 308 m1 will basically handle all but the extreme stout loadings. But theres reall no reason to push 200 grain bullets at 2800 fps through a 308 M1
I see there are gradiations, but they are definitely confusing. I think the HCF are more targeted to collectors as being somehow more valuable?
I see field grade at 650, and HCF at 980, Service Grade at 750, and special field grade at 850, and rack-grade sniper at 955.
What would be the best one to get for my purposes? I mean...I've just bought some stuff and might not jump on it right now unless someone convinces me, but for example, but I'd consider trying it for NRA Highpower Service Rifle competition, so which of those is the right thing for me? The price between those isn't a problem. I'm not a collector, I'm willing to repair/refurbish/replace things with the goal of having something suitable to use in a competitive setting.
Thanks,JRP
I see field grade at 650, and HCF at 980, Service Grade at 750, and special field grade at 850, and rack-grade sniper at 955.
What would be the best one to get for my purposes? I mean...I've just bought some stuff and might not jump on it right now unless someone convinces me, but for example, but I'd consider trying it for NRA Highpower Service Rifle competition, so which of those is the right thing for me? The price between those isn't a problem. I'm not a collector, I'm willing to repair/refurbish/replace things with the goal of having something suitable to use in a competitive setting.
Thanks,JRP
For NRA service rifle the CMP field grade special in 308 is a great choice. Now if price is not much of an issue and your looking for a nice old wood and iron rifle for NRA Service Rifle this is about as good as it gets
Fulton Armory Peerless M1 Service Rifle *
The CMP Special Field grade 308 is a restored M1 using what they would describe as a field grade receiver. So it will show some pitting and other imperfections but it is mechanically sound.
As far as any other types of matches the cmp special in 308 can compete in cmp games mondern military match. Also can compete in the Unlimited Garand Match and i hear rumors now of a Unlimited Mondern Military Match?
The cmp specials are a good deal for a nice fresh shooter.
The service grades and field grades are about as close to what you would get handed in the services.
The other manufactures IHC Winchester and the sniper options are more "collector" in my mind. The snipers are no bargin and if they where would be sold out. If you want a M1d or M1c you can find one complete for not much more.
Maybe cmp will put out some more M1,d reproductions?
In the end if you are looking for a shooter and collecting is of no concern the CMP service grade or CMP specials in 308 or 30-06 are a good deal.
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greencobra
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mil surp aficionado's, save me a google search, please. not a rifle shooter, what are these .308 m1s about? I never realized they made those in that caliber. were they made up special? issued somewhere? and something I didn't know either, it sounds like military/nato ammo is loaded down compared to commercially available hunting loads. am I getting that right? I should get out more and i'd probably know these things.
These are conversions from ordinary .30-06 M1 rifles. The CMP installs a new .308 barrel during their refurbishment of the rifle into a "Special" grade. Special grades, either in .30-06 or .308, come with new criterion barrels, new CMP wood stocks, and re-parkerized parts. They are considered less collectible because of the reworks, but are great shooters, a good value, and about as close as you can get to a "new" M1 rifle without spending a small fortune.
For the .308 rifles, they also install a blocking piece into the internal magazine that prevents the shooter from loading the longer .30-06 rounds into the rifle as a safety precaution. These aren't strictly necessary for the function of the rifle, but it's a good idea. Caution should be taken with converted rifles that can't be traced to either the CMP or other reputable, competent gunsmith.
If I recall correctly, the Navy converted some M1's into .308 in order to keep some of their rifles in service as a cost savings measure when the US moved to the NATO cartridge. I believe they used some sort of chamber sleeve in order to keep using the original barrels, but also re-barreled to .308 These are fairly rare and collectible rifles and are not what for sale by the CMP as a special grade. No other service used M1's in .308 to my knowledge.
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greencobra
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ahhh, I see, thanks. may I ask....what was the reason cmp converted the rifles? is .308 more desirable in hi power matches over 30-06?
I feel the need to apologize for basic questions, I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff, but interesting it is. I do cruise the mil surp forum a lot, very interesting to me.
CMP has special rifles in both calibers. People like .308 because it's generally cheaper and has wider availability and variety than .30-06. 7.62 NATO surplus is still around, while the .30-06 surplus is pretty much gone or as expensive as new production stuff. I don't know if the 7.62x51 is considered more accurate by the serious shooters or not.
As far as competition, I'm a bit hazy on the rules and differences between NRA and CMP matches. You can't use a .308 M1 in a "As-Issued" CMP match, but can in less restrictive categories.
I think price of ammo is the primary reason people buy these.
greencobra
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thanks matt.
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Lot of ignorance here ... note Garands are designed around a FIXED gas system. Too much gas, by too heavy a load or too fast a gas curve ... and one can bend the operating rod and damage the rifle.
308 Garands need a 7.62x51mm NATO-type ~150grn load to be best suited for the fixed gas system. Or think typical M1A highpower match loading, where heavier bullets account for the gas/pressure curve in the loading. FWIW, Federal makes a -51mm load for M1As using their 168grn OTM bullet that is ideal for the 308 Garands too.
One can use the Schuster adjustable gas plug, that is properly matched to YOUR load of choice, in Garand 308s (my National Match 308 Garand shoots sub-MOA using one) but I had emailed GarandGear and they do NOT recommend using their ‘ported’ gas plug in 308 Garands. They do, however, work well in 30-06 Garands.
308 Garands need a 7.62x51mm NATO-type ~150grn load to be best suited for the fixed gas system. Or think typical M1A highpower match loading, where heavier bullets account for the gas/pressure curve in the loading. FWIW, Federal makes a -51mm load for M1As using their 168grn OTM bullet that is ideal for the 308 Garands too.
One can use the Schuster adjustable gas plug, that is properly matched to YOUR load of choice, in Garand 308s (my National Match 308 Garand shoots sub-MOA using one) but I had emailed GarandGear and they do NOT recommend using their ‘ported’ gas plug in 308 Garands. They do, however, work well in 30-06 Garands.
All I know is that the CMP installs them in their conversions and explicitly lists not being able to load .30-06 as the reason.
The bolt won't close all the way, so you're not going to fire the round intentionally. With the M1's free floating pin, there is a slim chance of an Out of Battery slamfire, which would be very nasty.
It's a cheap safety feature that does nothing detrimental to the rifle. Why wouldn't you want it?
According to my Hornady manual, .308 is seen as "slightly more accurate" than 30-06 in a Garand. There's nothing sourced or anything for that claim, though. I've only fired 30-06 Garands, so I can't speak to that.
While it is known the Navy converted some, I speculate CMP had some receivers with shot out barrels (or no barrels) and did the conversion since .308 is currently a more popular and cheaper cartridge, esp. if they can safely shoot all but the hottest 308 (whereas the 30-06 Garand requires lower power loads compared to some modern charges). It's also possible they just had some of the Navy ones. I'm expect someone will refute or corroborate this.
As Matt noted, in CMP M1 matches you cannot use the 308 Garand. The 308 Garand is OK for modern service rifle, though.
I don't have one in my .308 Garand and have no intention to install one. Its unsightly and unnecessary. If it was a combat weapon and you had a mix of '06 and 308s then yeah you should have one so someone isn't screwed in the middle of a firefight loading the wrong one. I think there's a 0% chance of slamfire since the bolt travels a good inch or so less with an '06 round in the 308 chamber (I tested it to see). I would be more concerned about accidentally loading a 308 clip in an '06 Garand than the other way around.
the shift to 308s is more in my mind the availability of ammo. Surplus M2 ball (30-06) is for the most part no longer manufactured or "cheap" a few companies are making M1 safe 30-06 like PPU and Creedmoor plus Federal makes some also.
When it comes to 308 vs 06 in the M1 platfrom its a matter of what "matches" you would like to shoot in plus what you want for ammo.
you can get 7.62 NATO . at the moment if you shop around under 50 cents per round. You can also load much better ammo for about the same
just a touch on "accuracy"
M1s new did not have a accuracy requirement from the Army. Over hauled M1s have a standard testing (batch testing mind you with the best lots of ammo tested)
M1s, M14s M2 ball and M80 (Nato ) are not held to a high standard for accuracy. Think 9 ring of a SR target for either rifle or cartridge.
They can do better of course but think of it like this. The rifles and mil ammo is plenty good enough for GI at 5 moa
Correct; as I mentioned the claim in the manual is an unqualified and unelaborated "more accurate" statement, which I read as being of interest to competitors. Since it's a reloading manual, I would presume the intended audience is either competition shooters or those seeking accurate reloads, generally speaking.
I haven't compared my service grade vs. field grade special side by side for accuracy, but I don't think there would be too much between them. The special is absolutely tighter in every regard and has the brand new Criterion barrel vs. the 1949 barrel on the service grade (not original, as the receiver is June 1944), but both seem to be plenty accurate for my skills. This is actually a fun idea to try one of these days. I bet the special would do ever so slightly better.
That said, ceteris paribus, if I had to take a shot to save my life at 100-200 yards, with irons only, every day of the week I am going to grab my special with the 1907 sling and use that. I feel better prone with the sling than anything else, even benchrest.
The Field Grade Special Garand in 308 or 30-06 is the rifle to buy if you want a solid rifle to shoot CMP Games Matches with. Many of us install new criterion barrels and find the stock with the best lockup - CMP has done that for you, as well as parkerizing all of the small parts and making everything look new. I have seen an FG Special in person and they are really nice. Don't worry about the pitting under the wood line too much. I built my JCG rifle on a "grade c" stripped receiver the CMP was selling several years back. They are essentially Field Grade reparked receivers which are now likely being used to build Specials with.
The 308 Garand can compete in CMP Modern Military; 30-06 would be as issued Garand.
For CMP Highpower, you can shoot a Garand in 308 or 30-06 per the rules book and the rifle can be match accurized. I don't have the NRA high power rules in front of me.
The 308 Garand can compete in CMP Modern Military; 30-06 would be as issued Garand.
For CMP Highpower, you can shoot a Garand in 308 or 30-06 per the rules book and the rifle can be match accurized. I don't have the NRA high power rules in front of me.
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