Chris, the locking tool storage box meets the law (all by itself).
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Carrying in car question
- Thread starter News Shooter
- Start date
This is how I look at it, and this falls under the CYA rule:
If I am not carrying my handgun in a holster on my body this is how I carry any gun, handgun, rifle or shot gun. Again this is my CYA rule:
If carrying in a vehicle I 1st put a lock on the trigger, 2nd I put a lock on the case that the gun is in, 3rd I put a lock on the carrying case that the gun and case are in.
Yes 3 locks. Again CYA. It also makes it harder for someone to get at those guns and quicker for me to draw my gun that I have in my holster on my body to stop them from taking said case or cases![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
.
Plus it doesn't hurt if you get stopped to show the LEO how hard it is to get at if he / she asks you.
If I am not carrying my handgun in a holster on my body this is how I carry any gun, handgun, rifle or shot gun. Again this is my CYA rule:
If carrying in a vehicle I 1st put a lock on the trigger, 2nd I put a lock on the case that the gun is in, 3rd I put a lock on the carrying case that the gun and case are in.
Yes 3 locks. Again CYA. It also makes it harder for someone to get at those guns and quicker for me to draw my gun that I have in my holster on my body to stop them from taking said case or cases
.Plus it doesn't hurt if you get stopped to show the LEO how hard it is to get at if he / she asks you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again . . .
In MA, if you get stopped for a traffic infraction the police do NOT search your car as a matter of course! So as long as you don't leave a gun out or a gun bag on the front seat of your car, you aren't going to be questioned about it. Period! [Unless you bring up the subject, which you shouldn't UNLESS you are being asked to step out of the vehicle (in which case, in MA, you are usually being arrested for something). If you bring up the topic, expect to be hassled/searched up here as "guns are only possessed by criminals" is the general consensus in MA!]
I've been driving for 41 years in two states (MA and CT), been stopped a total of 5 times (1 ticket and 4 verbals) and nobody has ever asked me "what's in the trunk" or "are you carrying a gun" (2 or 3 of those stops I was armed).
Now, down South they often times DO a vehicle search (usually by intimidation, still no legal basis) for things as minor as a rear tail light being out. BUT MA (and New England) law enforcement does NOT operate that way! [And having guns in your car down South isn't the big deal it would be in MA either!]
In MA, if you get stopped for a traffic infraction the police do NOT search your car as a matter of course! So as long as you don't leave a gun out or a gun bag on the front seat of your car, you aren't going to be questioned about it. Period! [Unless you bring up the subject, which you shouldn't UNLESS you are being asked to step out of the vehicle (in which case, in MA, you are usually being arrested for something). If you bring up the topic, expect to be hassled/searched up here as "guns are only possessed by criminals" is the general consensus in MA!]
I've been driving for 41 years in two states (MA and CT), been stopped a total of 5 times (1 ticket and 4 verbals) and nobody has ever asked me "what's in the trunk" or "are you carrying a gun" (2 or 3 of those stops I was armed).
Now, down South they often times DO a vehicle search (usually by intimidation, still no legal basis) for things as minor as a rear tail light being out. BUT MA (and New England) law enforcement does NOT operate that way! [And having guns in your car down South isn't the big deal it would be in MA either!]
Not to argue this point, but during my LTC course, one of the instructors suggested;
"if stopped in your vehicle for any reason, you should always let the LEO know that you are licensed and currently carrying".
"if stopped in your vehicle for any reason, you should always let the LEO know that you are licensed and currently carrying".
I've said it before and I'll say it again . . .
In MA, if you get stopped for a traffic infraction the police do NOT search your car as a matter of course! So as long as you don't leave a gun out or a gun bag on the front seat of your car, you aren't going to be questioned about it. Period! [Unless you bring up the subject, which you shouldn't UNLESS you are being asked to step out of the vehicle (in which case, in MA, you are usually being arrested for something). If you bring up the topic, expect to be hassled/searched up here as "guns are only possessed by criminals" is the general consensus in MA!]
I've been driving for 41 years in two states (MA and CT), been stopped a total of 5 times (1 ticket and 4 verbals) and nobody has ever asked me "what's in the trunk" or "are you carrying a gun" (2 or 3 of those stops I was armed).
Now, down South they often times DO a vehicle search (usually by intimidation, still no legal basis) for things as minor as a rear tail light being out. BUT MA (and New England) law enforcement does NOT operate that way! [And having guns in your car down South isn't the big deal it would be in MA either!]
Bad advice in my opinion. If it is likely or possible that the LEO will see your CCW, say when reaching for ID, then by all means inform the LEO. Stay calm, speak slowly and clearly, and inform the LEO where the CCW is, and that you intend to follow his instructions on how to proceed. Remember to keep your hands on the wheel and turn the light on if it is dark.
"Officer, I am carrying a pistol in a belt holster on my right side. My wallet containing my drivers license and LTC is in my back right pocket. I will follow your instructions exactly. How do you want me to proceed?"
If the LEO has no chance of seeing your CCW, keep your mouth shut about it. No need to advertise. They don't ask, so you don't tell.
In MA most cops are so UNUSED to seeing good guys carrying guns that an assumption is that the person is either a cop or a felon!
You announce unnecessarily and there are very good odds that you will be taken down as a felony stop, eating asphalt for a speeding infraction until everything gets sorted out.
Your choice, but you know where I stand! I've been stopped twice while carrying and never mentioned a word as it was NOT going to be visible to the cop that stopped me. In one case (a very nasty Boston cop on the X-way) I would certainly have eaten asphalt in my suit had I mentioned it. NO thank you!!
You announce unnecessarily and there are very good odds that you will be taken down as a felony stop, eating asphalt for a speeding infraction until everything gets sorted out.
Your choice, but you know where I stand! I've been stopped twice while carrying and never mentioned a word as it was NOT going to be visible to the cop that stopped me. In one case (a very nasty Boston cop on the X-way) I would certainly have eaten asphalt in my suit had I mentioned it. NO thank you!!
Does NES have any Cops as members? It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on this subject (understanding that it would be an individual perspective).
TY43215
NES Member
As an instructor and someone rather familiar with traffic stops, I can only say that your instructor gave you very bad advice. Take the citation and follow the directions on the back.
ok... just to toss a fly in the soup...
I have a class A, however it is (thanks to Brockton COP) restricted to target and hunting....
So... when driving to and from the range... how should I carry my pistol?.. mind you I only own an pickup and an suv.
What I have been doing is keeping it unloaded in a zipped carry bag. by reading all this... that is incorrect and I should keep in in my locked rifle case im guess...
I have a class A, however it is (thanks to Brockton COP) restricted to target and hunting....
So... when driving to and from the range... how should I carry my pistol?.. mind you I only own an pickup and an suv.
What I have been doing is keeping it unloaded in a zipped carry bag. by reading all this... that is incorrect and I should keep in in my locked rifle case im guess...
Matt, it must be in a LOCKED CASE. The zipped carry bag is fine if locked. It should also be behind the seat (in the SUV since you don't have a trunk) and out of reach of driver/passengers. Ron Glidden's book goes into detail about this IIRC.
M1911
Moderator
At LFI-1, Massad Ayoob, a noted instructor and reserve police officer, recommended that you do NOT notify the officer unless you are required by law to do so. If the officer directs you to get out of the car, then Ayoob suggests that you say:
"Certainly, officer. I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed."
I know someone in MA who told the officer they were carrying, during a normal traffic stop. The officer called for back up, removed them from the car, proned them out, cuffed and stuffed them in the cruiser.
And btw, two former MA LEOs in this very thread recommended against telling the officer.
Thanks Len. That is what I suspected.
Thanks everyone for the sound advice.
After this individual was stuffed in the cruiser what happened?
After this individual was stuffed in the cruiser what happened?
M1911
Moderator
Lugnut:
Nope, there is nothing else missing. I know the individual in question. He's got an unrestricted LTC. It was just a simple speeding, nothing excessive. He wasn't mouthing off.
There are some cops who are pro-gun. There are plenty here in MA who are anti-gun. Don't be surprised if you run into one who thinks that only cops and crooks carry guns.
Nope, there is nothing else missing. I know the individual in question. He's got an unrestricted LTC. It was just a simple speeding, nothing excessive. He wasn't mouthing off.
There are some cops who are pro-gun. There are plenty here in MA who are anti-gun. Don't be surprised if you run into one who thinks that only cops and crooks carry guns.
Thanks for the answer. Kinda sounds like complete bs that they did that.
Funny side note: After I got pulled over in Maine, my wife and I were talking about this. She thought it was silly that some states require you to tell when CCW. She said if someone was a bad guy they'd either not tell anyway or would use it then and there- whereas a good guy isn't going to do a damn thing. Put a smile on my face since she started out as an anti and is seeing reality little by little.
Sort of like gun control in a nutshell.
See my response #36! M1911 just confirmed what I wrote in that one!
This is MA not ME, TX, FL, etc. LEOs here do NOT expect to find good guys armed in MA! To protect themselves, they are entitled to and will oftentimes prone you out (make you eat asphalt), disarm you, cuff and stuff you until it all gets sorted out.
If you feel that it's worth it to bring this on yourself by UNNECESSARILY announcing that you are armed in a speeding/burnt out tail-light stop, you'll probably "see the light" after your first experience!
Your choice!
+1. IMO only notify in must notify states, period. Otherwise you may
cause dumb things to occur, as a minimum. I heard a report from one man
who made the mistake of disclosing he was armed.... the officer then took
the carrier's pistol, and muzzle swept the carrier with it, and then almost
had an ND while trying to unload it. (it would have put a hole in the carrier's car. ).
Eventually the officer didn't know what he was doing with it and
asked the carrier to unload the pistol for him! (It was a 1911, and
apparently this particular LEO had never seen a 1911 before.).
-Mike
Last edited:
If you notice I put "IF" in my post. And that is for a cased locked gun in the back. I would only bring it up if the LEO asked "and what is in those cases".
I am a past LEO (had to retire from it due to health reasons, yes I still miss doing it). I for one liked to no before someone was going for there ID's, alot less trouble knowing 1st than seeing it as they reach that way. Again this is just my thoughts and I worked in small towns / citys out here in Western Mass where guns are, how can I say this right, more common, I quess that is the best way to say it.
I agree it is a hole different story in Boston or even in Springfield.
Plus things have changed so much in the last few years, it is a different world we live in now.
Garys
NES Member
No legal requirements for a hard case. See my comments in a prior reply.
Well, it looks like Chief Glidden did a "reach" in titling the section on transporting guns with a LTC-A. BUT that is what he's teaching LEOs, so expect to be prosecuted based on his book and teachings regardless of who is right or not.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
So, does a victim of this bad information get to sue Chief Glidden, the officer who relied on the bad information, and the department? I'd think so and I'd also think that for Chief Glidden at least, this is well outside of his immunity under the Tort Claims act.
Gary
Garys
NES Member
Interesting. Under MA law, if you have been cuffed you have been arrested. Although I'm sure your friend was relieved to be released, he might have an action for false arrest. At least that is what I was taught at several reserve classes and by a LEO/Lawyer.
Gary
Good question. I would assume that the LEO's could always state it was "protective custody" until the confirmed his lic.
Ya that's what I was going to say. They would say they had him under PC while they got the facts in order.
Garys
NES Member
I'm sure one of the lawyers will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the arrest happens the second the officer restrains you from leaving. That can be by touching or words. Again, that's the training I received and I'm not aware of any changes to the law since.
Gary
Garys
NES Member
