Carry a P22?

[Lamina]

There is a reason that the skull is sometimes referred to as the cranial vault. More than a few .22lr have bounced off a skull, or skittered around it under the skin.

Thanks, but I'll use a real caliber. There is a reason that police agencies use 9 mm and up.

more than a few .22's have also pierced the skull, and bounced around inside a bit. or cut arteries, or torn aortas.

.22's killed alot of nazis during WWII while being used by the resistance.

 

[MassMark]

dude, easy.

provided that

A.) your P-22 has proven to be reliable

and

B.) you can't reasonably carry something better

there is nothing wrong with doing so. people will make the same remarks about 9MM, .40 or anything else the deem not to be effective enough.

you should really do some research on how many people .22's have killed. but it's not about killing, is it? it's about stopping the threat. If your threat didn't at least slow down with 10 rds of .22 in thier upper body, then you are doing something wrong... aka, you prob never should have drawn in the first place, because sometimes running is just a better choice. but, if I need to shoot and run, I am betting that those 10 rds of .22 are going to cramp my attackers style.

there are about 100 scenarios where carrying a P-22 is about worthless, and might actually make things worse for you.

there are prob another 100 scenarios where it could save your life.

the single most important aspect of CCing is not the tools you carry in your pocket or on your hip, it's the tool you carry in between your ears.

with all that said, a few caveats...

I don't carry my P22 frequently. more often than not, it's the XD-40sc. really, they are about the same profile size, the XD is just bulkier.

I would never carry anything but a spotlessy cleaned and lubed P22. they do get real finicky when dirty.

I would never carry the P22 with "value pack" ammo.

I have broken all of the above rules at least once. Really, something is better than nothing. or why else would some of us carry knives when that's all we can?

btw, I find even the 3.4" P-22's to be stupid accurate. last week I was hitting clays at 75yds 40% of the time, and the other 55% of shots were falling within 6", with 5% being wild but still in a "man sized" area.

Dude, easy? Give me a break. Your post is filled with so much nonsense, it's hard to even know where to begin. The thing is kiddo, I have done research, plenty of it. Why don't you share a cite or two with us about the .22LR carry option? Give us some "research" by trained professionals, (LEO's, military, instructors etc), where they recommend a notoriously problematic and ammo sensitive P22, or any 22 for that matter as a viable carry option. If you care to debate me about the effectiveness of .22LR in a self defense scenario and stop stats of a .22LR vs other calibers, bring it...I like to win.

The FACT is that carrying a .22LR as a primary carry weapon is increasing your odds of not stopping the threat by a tremendous margin and in many circles is just plain reckless and stupid...Carry on....

 

[JRyan]

I don't think it's the best choice at all. If it were the only option though, I might carry it, until I could get something more appropriate. I think you would be relying on the BG stopping because of fear/shock etc. more than anything, though it's certainly within the realm of possibility to kill someone with a .22.

OTOH I would not volunteer to take a shot from a .22, but I'm at least a little sensible, if you don't ask my wife.

edit: Mark nailed it above with the increasing your odds of not stopping the threat by a wide margin IMO.

 

[Underwhere]

almost no jams

That right there is your answer.

 

[Lamina]

The FACT is that carrying a .22LR as a primary carry weapon is increasing your odds of not stopping the threat by a tremendous margin and in many circles is just plain reckless and stupid...Carry on....

the FACT is that not carrying at all increases your odds of not stopping any threat by a tremendous margin.

Now, when we want to talk about experience, and backround, thats all fine and good. I have a combat deployment under my belt, how about you? Not that I'd stretch to say that that gives me experience with carrying a .22 for self defense, because it doesn't. clearly, I had better resources available while in the desert.

But, I've put my balls on the line in a rather definite manner, and know what I'm comfortable with.

A time and a place for everything. If you don't get that, I can't help you.

and, I'll provide some stats to validate my position when I'm not at work. but, for now, I can offer that Bobby Kennedy would disagree about it's lethality. sure, it was at point blank. but, I can think of other situations where a point blank shot might be justified and warranted.

 

[Mattitude]

I'm surprised that no one brought up "excessive force" as that is what more than likely you will be charged with for shooting an attacker 10 times...and you will be extra screwed if said attacker doesn't die. You should ideally be carrying a caliber large enough that you can shoot with control & accuracy that would stop a threat with a minimum # of center mass shots. Banking on shooting an attacker in the head will be much harder in practice than theory. Odds are that a disfiguring shot to the face will more than likely happen...and I would be willing to bet that the BG found Jesus and now because he is now disfigured can't find a job and that will now be your responsibility to put food on his table, along with his medical bills.

 

[wolf223]

sixteen or seventeen years ago a dude showed up in the ER who'd been shot in the forehead with a .22 lr fired from a handgun at a distance of about 8-10 feet. bullet didn't penetrate the skull, but traced round his his scalp like a potato peeler, exiting from the top of his head. it left the top of his skull completely exposed, and all his hair on the floor in a strip like a giant orange peel.

so some one peeled HIS cap?

 

[MassMark]

the FACT is that not carrying at all increases your odds of not stopping any threat by a tremendous margin.

Now, when we want to talk about experience, and backround, thats all fine and good. I have a combat deployment under my belt, how about you? Not that I'd stretch to say that that gives me experience with carrying a .22 for self defense, because it doesn't. clearly, I had better resources available while in the desert.

But, I've put my balls on the line in a rather definite manner, and know what I'm comfortable with.

A time and a place for everything. If you don't get that, I can't help you.

and, I'll provide some stats to validate my position when I'm not at work. but, for now, I can offer that Bobby Kennedy would disagree about it's lethality. sure, it was at point blank. but, I can think of other situations where a point blank shot might be justified and warranted.

Jesus - here we go with the "I've got a combat deployment", or, "I'm an Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine veteran" argument again. That earns you thanks for your service and the appreciation of those of us who value that service and sacrifice. It does not however make you a weapons expert by any way, shape or form and I'm 99% sure that while in your combat deployment, you were not issued a P22 and a Henry Golden Boy. In fact, the reality that you have had a combat deployment and advise that a .22LR is a fine alternative, has me scratching my head even more. It's like me saying: "I've got a lot of experience kayaking and can tell you everything you need to know about steering an oil tanker"....

Bobby Kennedy has zero to do with using a .22LR as a primary CCW - absolutely zero. The fact that people have been killed by .22LR's has zero to do with carrying one as a CCW - absolutely zero. Your experience as a combat veteran has zero to do with recommending a reckless and dangerous weapon to carry on the streets - absolutely zero. If someone can afford the coin to lay down for a P22, then one can also imagine a myriad of other options for a CCW that may not get you killed while using it...

 

[C-pher]

While practicing on the range with my P22, I had the slide fly forward off the gun and land on the ground twice, because my support side thumb pushed down the takedown button on the side of the frame because of my grip - two thumbs forward.

Dude...I'm calling you out on this one!

I have a P22. And to take it apart, you have to pull the slide BACK and PULL IT UP AND OVER the rear of the frame. Much like taking apart the PPK.

It won't just "fly forward." It's not how the P22 comes apart.

So, if you're going to bash a firearm, you migth want to know how it works before you do.

I love my P22, I've put 1000's of rounds down range and rarely have issues. I would say the same with any firearm. I've never owned a firearm that didn't have a FTE or FTL at some point.

And, if all you can do is shoot a .22 well..then why not carry it? If you flinch or can't handle the recoil of something larger? Then you're not going to hit your target anyway.

If a .22 is the only thing that you can hit paper with..then why carry something that you can't?

 

[M1911]

Goodness gracious.

 

[wolf223]

hey, I was inside the wire and carried a bottle of water for my deployment

 

[TomH]

I don't think it's the best choice at all. If it were the only option though, I might carry it, until I could get something more appropriate. I think you would be relying on the BG stopping because of fear/shock etc. more than anything, though it's certainly within the realm of possibility to kill someone with a .22.

The shock of someone using a .22 on him maybe. But think about this: someone pumped up on adrenaline or perhaps even drugs might not even feel .22's hitting center of mass. Assuming they don't hit somewhere that will instantly kill, the BG could keep coming at you for some period of time. A .22 can be stopped by bone. A larger caliber not so much. And self defense bullets are designed to mushroom out and destroy tissue. A .22 might explode on impact but it won't do nearly as much tissue damage.

 

[andy t]

I'm returning the call. I like my P22 and this was not intended as a bashing but a statement of fact. How do you know that the recoil impulse does not give it that little nudge to get the slide up?
The slide wouldn't fly forward by itself, but by applying firm with my support side thumb right on the takedown lever, there were enough "tolerances stacked" to cause this issue.

Dude...I'm calling you out on this one!

I have a P22. And to take it apart, you have to pull the slide BACK and PULL IT UP AND OVER the rear of the frame. Much like taking apart the PPK.

It won't just "fly forward." It's not how the P22 comes apart.

So, if you're going to bash a firearm, you migth want to know how it works before you do.

I love my P22, I've put 1000's of rounds down range and rarely have issues. I would say the same with any firearm. I've never owned a firearm that didn't have a FTE or FTL at some point.

And, if all you can do is shoot a .22 well..then why not carry it? If you flinch or can't handle the recoil of something larger? Then you're not going to hit your target anyway.

If a .22 is the only thing that you can hit paper with..then why carry something that you can't?

 

[Lamina]

Jesus - here we go with the "I've got a combat deployment", or, "I'm an Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine veteran" argument again. That earns you thanks for your service and the appreciation of those of us who value that service and sacrifice. It does not however make you a weapons expert by any way, shape or form and I'm 99% sure that while in your combat deployment, you were not issued a P22 and a Henry Golden Boy. In fact, the reality that you have had a combat deployment and advise that a .22LR is a fine alternative, has me scratching my head even more. It's like me saying: "I've got a lot of experience kayaking and can tell you everything you need to know about steering an oil tanker"....

Bobby Kennedy has zero to do with using a .22LR as a primary CCW - absolutely zero. The fact that people have been killed by .22LR's has zero to do with carrying one as a CCW - absolutely zero. Your experience as a combat veteran has zero to do with recommending a reckless and dangerous weapon to carry on the streets - absolutely zero. If someone can afford the coin to lay down for a P22, then one can also imagine a myriad of other options for a CCW that may not get you killed while using it...

holy crap cowboy. try that whole reading comprehension thing.

first, I did not say that my combat deployment gave me any reason to opine on the combate effectiveness of the P22. infact, I offered a qualifying remark to state just the opposite.

second, I never advocated the P22 as the "go to" gun for CCW. not once. what I did say multiple times was that if there was no better option, than it was better than nothing. I'll get back to this later.

ETA. okay, later is now. the only reason I brought up my military backround was in response to your statement of "no military or LEO types would advocate this". excuse the non precise qoute.

Listen, a weapon is a weapon. but the funny thing is, alot of things that aren't weapons can be weapons. Some, more readily than others. I have not once advocated carrying a P22 as a prolonged practice. nor would I. as you stated, there are better tools for the same purpose. what I did say, is that in a pinch, it works, provided you accept its limitations and use your noggin.

Edited by mother

 

[Lamina]

hey, I was inside the wire and carried a bottle of water for my deployment

camelbak here. but it was an assualt camelbak.

 

[Lynne]

camelbak here. but it was an assualt camelbak.

Does that mean you had 2 lumps?

 

[Lamina]

Does that mean you had 2 lumps?

they said something about "large capacity feeding device".

 

[Lamina]

oh, and on the "not a weapons expert" comment.

It's all relative. I've been shooting since I was a kid. shot .22's in the boy scouts, all manner of stuff as an older kid, all manner of stuff in the army, and about 100x more since.

I've got extensive experience with a few dozen weapons, or weapon systems. I've shot prob 50 or so more. I've handled or worked on a few dozen more. I've trained shooters, both in and out of the military. I don't know what your qualifications are, but to many, I'm in the "highly experienced" category. to some folks, in the big bad world and even on this forum, I've got but a fraction of their experience. Hell, I've got a buddy that has about 10X more experience than I... funny thing is, he's carried his P22 before too. And he'd tell you the same thing I will... there are far better things, but sometimes the situation dictates that something like the P-22 is the best choice, out of whats currently in our respective inventories.

I will say that as soon as I can I'll be adding a PK380 to the stable, for fitting those situations that I sometimes carry the P-22 in now.

 

[Youradolt]

I have three ohter pistols that I could carry s&w 637, G19, SA 1911 but this pistol is slim light I only work three days out of the week I have to wear it iwb and I work 14 hours shift but the point I was trying to make is would anybody carry a p22 and who does carry one I still have not carried this gun and would never carry it on my day off just want to see what people thought

 

[Underwhere]

I have three ohter pistols that I could carry s&w 637, G19, SA 1911 but this pistol is slim light I only work three days out of the week I have to wear it iwb and I work 14 hours shift but the point I was trying to make is would anybody carry a p22 and who does carry one I still have not carried this gun and would never carry it on my day off just want to see what people thought

A friend of mine has a P22 and I have never seen a gun malfunction as much as that one.

2 times I've been to the range with him. Each time he's suffered failures to feed (multiple on each mag with different ammo).

The 3rd time he went to the range he loaded up a mag and presented the gun to the target only to find there was no front sight on the slide.

I wouldn't trust a gun like that. I think you yourself stated that it functioned fine most of the time. If you're going to carry a gun, you're going to want one that is more reliable.

Look at it this way, you can now justify your purchase of a nice Airweight S&W wheel gun and pocket carry.

 

[Lamina]

A friend of mine has a P22 and I have never seen a gun malfunction as much as that one.

2 times I've been to the range with him. Each time he's suffered failures to feed (multiple on each mag with different ammo).

The 3rd time he went to the range he loaded up a mag and presented the gun to the target only to find there was no front sight on the slide.

I wouldn't trust a gun like that. I think you yourself stated that it functioned fine most of the time. If you're going to carry a gun, you're going to want one that is more reliable.

Look at it this way, you can now justify your purchase of a nice Airweight S&W wheel gun and pocket carry.

I've heard stories like this. it really seems like QC varies hugely from one P-22 to another.


with good ammo, I've never had a malfunction with mine.

with shit ammo, they run in the .5% range, and half of those are dud rds.

 

[FPrice]

I cc it - crotch carry

Lends new meaning to the term, accidental discharge.

 

[drgrant]

Most people I know with the P22 have jams.

I have a friend of mine though that has one that works great. We ran about 22,000 rounds through it (This was back when bulk 22 was $8 for 550 rounds and we burned up a box every range trip) and then the slide cracked in half. Then we sent it to S+W and they replaced the whole top end of the thing. It came back and ran fine.

Others, however, have not been so lucky. I've run into tons of people that have the things and hate them, or people who have sent their guns back 5
times only to have the thing still not work.

Most of the 22 plinkers are like this. The Sig Mosquito is equally as bad QC wise.

While we're at it, I hate 22 autos in general. The only one that hasn't completely pissed me off yet is the SW22A/S series, primarily because it
eats a broader range of ammo that most of them do. The ruger MKII/IIIs arent too bad if you can get past the crappy field stripping. I dumped mine because I refuse to own a gun that takes that long to clean.

If you just want to plink with the thing a used 22A or a revolver of some sort is probably the best deal going. Self defense? No thanks. I'd rather take a .38 wheelie with downloaded ammo before a .22. There are also a few small 9s out there now that are worth buying. (Kahr MK9/PM9, Walther PPS ) Even
that little Ruger .380 is going to be way better, if it doesn't sting your hand too much.

-Mike

 

[upStomp]

I took my P22 on it's virgin run on Sunday. 2 jams out of 100 rounds shot. Not too bad for the $275 purchase price, but I would not consider it for CC. I'll just plink away with it and replace it with something a little more accurate and reliable once it wears out. It is a blast to shoot though.