I am planning a trip to PA next week from my home in MA (Have PA license). I have done some research on this and it appears that I can travel through NY based on a fed law. However, NY does not seem to recognize my right to do that. Does NY believe that I can travel through? If I got in an accident and my secured gun was discovered would I be in big trouble?
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Can I legally travel through NY?
- Thread starter massnee
- Start date
See my post on the poor guy that got arrested at the airport. If you read the court case, you'll see that NY and NJ do NOT believe in FOPA and "may" arrest anyone they come across with a firearm.
The law is on your side, but the risk is still really there.
Personally I feel that we are "trapped" here in the Northeast. Like you, I have a FL CCW which allows me to carry in a lot of states, I just can't get to them except by flying over NY/NJ!!
The law is on your side, but the risk is still really there.
Personally I feel that we are "trapped" here in the Northeast. Like you, I have a FL CCW which allows me to carry in a lot of states, I just can't get to them except by flying over NY/NJ!!
Len,
Thanks for the info...I was hoping the situation was different. In light of this I will leave my G-27 home. The news headline, "Local Pastor arrested on gun violation" does not sound attractive to me...
I will let someone else be the test case for this one.
Thanks for the info...I was hoping the situation was different. In light of this I will leave my G-27 home. The news headline, "Local Pastor arrested on gun violation" does not sound attractive to me...
I will let someone else be the test case for this one.
I've made many a travel trough NY, using Federal proceedures... But now, after all these stories, I'm not so sure.
I have a license to carry here in NH, I go through VT. Not MA, I have no license there. I stop and double check all my guns before going through NY. PA recognizes my NH license to carrry, so no worries there either.
Just NY
Maybe call the NY State Police, mention you have to drive to a gun "competition" let's just say, and what needs to be done for you to do that? There is an IPSC tournament this year in Rochester, NY so I'm imagining there are other people in our boat here. I'll poke around and see what I can find as it affects me as well.
Carter
I have a license to carry here in NH, I go through VT. Not MA, I have no license there. I stop and double check all my guns before going through NY. PA recognizes my NH license to carrry, so no worries there either.
Just NY
Maybe call the NY State Police, mention you have to drive to a gun "competition" let's just say, and what needs to be done for you to do that? There is an IPSC tournament this year in Rochester, NY so I'm imagining there are other people in our boat here. I'll poke around and see what I can find as it affects me as well.
Carter
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NY
The posession of firearms in NY for a shooting competition is not covered by the Federal law regarding a continuous and uninterrupted journey, but by the provisions of NY penal code 265.20 paragraph 13, which provides a 48 hour window before and after the match during which you pay posess handguns without a NY license or soverign immunity.
I have been going to NY for matches for 15+ years, and have been in cars which were stopped twice - once was for speeding, and once was a DUI checkpoint. (that's how they spell in in NY, so I'll adopt their nomenclature for this posting). In both cases the driver mentioned we were on the way to a shooting match(*) - once to the Fulton, NY PD and once to the NYSP. In each case, there was no problem.
Competitors going to the big USPSA/IPSC match (Area 7) in Rochester are provided with a confirmation letter. Just remember to explain that you posess the guns under 265.20(13) in case the police need to look up the statute in the law book they generally carry in their car.
* - I would recommend no extenally visible indication of "gunnedness" and to not volunteer the information unless specifically asked. In both cases I wittnesses the driver "over volunteered" information when asked "where are you going?"
The posession of firearms in NY for a shooting competition is not covered by the Federal law regarding a continuous and uninterrupted journey, but by the provisions of NY penal code 265.20 paragraph 13, which provides a 48 hour window before and after the match during which you pay posess handguns without a NY license or soverign immunity.
I have been going to NY for matches for 15+ years, and have been in cars which were stopped twice - once was for speeding, and once was a DUI checkpoint. (that's how they spell in in NY, so I'll adopt their nomenclature for this posting). In both cases the driver mentioned we were on the way to a shooting match(*) - once to the Fulton, NY PD and once to the NYSP. In each case, there was no problem.
Competitors going to the big USPSA/IPSC match (Area 7) in Rochester are provided with a confirmation letter. Just remember to explain that you posess the guns under 265.20(13) in case the police need to look up the statute in the law book they generally carry in their car.
* - I would recommend no extenally visible indication of "gunnedness" and to not volunteer the information unless specifically asked. In both cases I wittnesses the driver "over volunteered" information when asked "where are you going?"
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If you're going straight from Massachusetts to Pennsylvania and are legal at both ends, you are absolutely covered by FOPA. You can read the law for yourself:
Every single problem I've seen reported from New York has been either at the Albany airport or one of the NYC area airports under the jurisdiction of the NY Port Authority. TSA has issued a formal letter stating that travel through these airports is indeed covered by FOPA. Recently Scott Bach has filed suit against both the Port Authority and the individual arresting officer for unlawful arrest and violation of civil rights resulting from the arrest of a traveler. Since everybody who bothers to read the law knows that NY has absolutely no grounds for these violations, other than the fact that they've been able to get away with them, I suspect this will put a stop to the practice very quickly.
I'd have no qualms at all driving between here and Pennsylvania with any of my carry, competition or hunting guns as along as I met the provisions of FOPA:
* Guns unloaded
* Guns (and any ammunition) secured in the trunk or a locked container
* No stops other than gas, food and rest
Ken
Every single problem I've seen reported from New York has been either at the Albany airport or one of the NYC area airports under the jurisdiction of the NY Port Authority. TSA has issued a formal letter stating that travel through these airports is indeed covered by FOPA. Recently Scott Bach has filed suit against both the Port Authority and the individual arresting officer for unlawful arrest and violation of civil rights resulting from the arrest of a traveler. Since everybody who bothers to read the law knows that NY has absolutely no grounds for these violations, other than the fact that they've been able to get away with them, I suspect this will put a stop to the practice very quickly.
I'd have no qualms at all driving between here and Pennsylvania with any of my carry, competition or hunting guns as along as I met the provisions of FOPA:
* Guns unloaded
* Guns (and any ammunition) secured in the trunk or a locked container
* No stops other than gas, food and rest
Ken
Use the FOPA. I don't think that you would have a problem driving. Carry a copy of it with you. Most of the problems occur at airports, where somebody has a lay over and is in posession of thier luggage. I am a firm believer that if you don't use something it is like it doesn't exist at all. We can't let our fear of NY police not knowing the law and unlawfully charging us with something stop us. Of course that is very easy for me to say because I live here with a permit. I can not say for sure what I would do if I was in your shoes. I would like to think I will lawfully transport my firearms in accordance with the FOPA.
Travel Through NJ
There is no problem travelling through NJ. Here is the AG Guideline sent out to all agencies a few years back:
All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:
The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey’s firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.
New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.
This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:
A. The person’s possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;
B. The person’s possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;
C. The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose
D. The firearm is unloaded
E. The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
F. The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
G. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle’s glove compartment or console;
H. The person is not
1. a convicted felon
2. a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or
3. an illegal alien
I. The person has not
1. been adjudicated to be a mental defective
2. been committed to a mental institution
3. been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or
4. renounced his United States Citizenship
A person who is transporting a firearm though the State of New Jersey in the manner permitted by person’s possession 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, see Section II above, need not give notice.
Procedures for Investigation of Conduct Involving the Possession or Transportation of Firearms
A. An officer who reasonably suspects that a person is transporting a firearm in violation of New Jersey law should make reasonable inquiries in order to confirm or dispel that suspicion.
B. In a case where circumstances reasonably indicate that the person’s possession and transportation of the firearms my be permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, the officer should make reasonable inquiries in order to determine whether the person’s possession is permitted by that federal law.
C. If reasonable inquiries lead an officer to conclude that the person’s possession is lawful under either New Jersey law or 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, the officer should promptly allow the person to proceed.
D. Whenever an officer has probable cause to believe that a person’s possession of a firearm is in violation of New Jersey law and not permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, then the officer should make an arrest.
If anyone is interested, here is the link to the NJ AG's Guideline Page:
http://www.njsp.org/about/firearms.html
Be aware that Carry Permits are not valid in NJ or NY.
Capt. R.D. Scalzo - Retired
Secaucus PD (NJ)
There is no problem travelling through NJ. Here is the AG Guideline sent out to all agencies a few years back:
All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:
The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey’s firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.
New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.
This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:
A. The person’s possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;
B. The person’s possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;
C. The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose
D. The firearm is unloaded
E. The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
F. The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle
G. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle’s glove compartment or console;
H. The person is not
1. a convicted felon
2. a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or
3. an illegal alien
I. The person has not
1. been adjudicated to be a mental defective
2. been committed to a mental institution
3. been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or
4. renounced his United States Citizenship
A person who is transporting a firearm though the State of New Jersey in the manner permitted by person’s possession 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, see Section II above, need not give notice.
Procedures for Investigation of Conduct Involving the Possession or Transportation of Firearms
A. An officer who reasonably suspects that a person is transporting a firearm in violation of New Jersey law should make reasonable inquiries in order to confirm or dispel that suspicion.
B. In a case where circumstances reasonably indicate that the person’s possession and transportation of the firearms my be permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, the officer should make reasonable inquiries in order to determine whether the person’s possession is permitted by that federal law.
C. If reasonable inquiries lead an officer to conclude that the person’s possession is lawful under either New Jersey law or 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, the officer should promptly allow the person to proceed.
D. Whenever an officer has probable cause to believe that a person’s possession of a firearm is in violation of New Jersey law and not permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, then the officer should make an arrest.
If anyone is interested, here is the link to the NJ AG's Guideline Page:
http://www.njsp.org/about/firearms.html
Be aware that Carry Permits are not valid in NJ or NY.
Capt. R.D. Scalzo - Retired
Secaucus PD (NJ)
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