Wait a minute....I just saw that you're in Ohio. You seriously took the time to hunt down this forum just to complain because you made poor choices and aren't happy with the results? Go away. I'm tempted to go buy a gun from the dealer just to irritate you.
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Buyer Baware of Gartman Arms Co. Online Sales thru Gunbroker
- Thread starter Jedman
- Start date
n1oty
NES Member
This must be one of the most ignorant comments I have seen on NES (and I've seen plenty). We have plenty of NES'ers all around the country, many of whom are "green" members and contribute much to this site. Please, evaluate and consider editing your comment. It reflects poorly on you.
If someone screwed me, I'd use every resource available to expose them. Who cares if the guy is from Ohio? If the discription showed the barrel as being "fine" and it turns out to be a shot out piece of shit, the guy got screwed, and the seller SHOULD be called out! If he had posted without stating the vendor...he would have had 15 posters posting "NAME THE STORE..or it didn't happen"!
I stand by what I said. This guy has gone out of his way to find and join NES from Ohio just so he can complain about a deal he didn't do his due diligence on. He's not contributing anything and I'm willing to bet will disappear as soon as he gets the attention he wants.
To address several of you that feel I went out of my way to join NES , No it wasn't that hard.
I guess you weren't around when the Internet was called THE INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY
but if you put the name Gartman Arms Co. in a search the top response is the NES forum. And yes I joined to reach out in a area that someone may no who Gartman Arms is.
Here's the thing I am getting at, Gartmans business selling guns from a small store in a small town with short hours maybe sees a handful of potential customers a day, all good !
When they started selling online thru Gunbroker there is a whole lot of new rules that they didn't have to think about selling from there store. Now you have the whole country at your stage and a lot more potential customers to deal with. They can list call us if you have questions but there are checks and balances built in to Gunbroker and E bay that are there for your benefit and security.
When I sent them the question about the gun being reblued, that is retained in my transaction I have proof what I wrote and Gunbroker can see that there was no response. I did call them on 4 occasions I spoke to 2 of the Employees, a guy named Chuck and a guy named Jeff, he is the man who answers questions for Gunbroker items . He was of no help and the boss was always unavailable.
I fully understand that many items need to be sold as is and No Returns as the seller really noes nothing about the item or maybe things are broken or missing ect. there's hundreds of reasons why and that's the way it should be. If you read the brief description given for this rifle it says , used not abused, and bore is fine, that tells me they are selling this as a shooter not a wall hanger. Where am I going to find a cartridge or a bullet for a .389 bore ? That's .008 to .009 larger than a 38-55.
From the information I found online about Gartman Arms it sounds like they have a machine shop and maybe someone who works on guns employed ? If so that person never assessed this rifle .
It took me about 3 seconds after pulling it out of the box to have my heart sink and the excitement of a new gun turn to disappointment. This rifle has very little value the way it is, certainly not what I expected.
Jedman
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I guess you weren't around when the Internet was called THE INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY
but if you put the name Gartman Arms Co. in a search the top response is the NES forum. And yes I joined to reach out in a area that someone may no who Gartman Arms is.
Here's the thing I am getting at, Gartmans business selling guns from a small store in a small town with short hours maybe sees a handful of potential customers a day, all good !
When they started selling online thru Gunbroker there is a whole lot of new rules that they didn't have to think about selling from there store. Now you have the whole country at your stage and a lot more potential customers to deal with. They can list call us if you have questions but there are checks and balances built in to Gunbroker and E bay that are there for your benefit and security.
When I sent them the question about the gun being reblued, that is retained in my transaction I have proof what I wrote and Gunbroker can see that there was no response. I did call them on 4 occasions I spoke to 2 of the Employees, a guy named Chuck and a guy named Jeff, he is the man who answers questions for Gunbroker items . He was of no help and the boss was always unavailable.
I fully understand that many items need to be sold as is and No Returns as the seller really noes nothing about the item or maybe things are broken or missing ect. there's hundreds of reasons why and that's the way it should be. If you read the brief description given for this rifle it says , used not abused, and bore is fine, that tells me they are selling this as a shooter not a wall hanger. Where am I going to find a cartridge or a bullet for a .389 bore ? That's .008 to .009 larger than a 38-55.
From the information I found online about Gartman Arms it sounds like they have a machine shop and maybe someone who works on guns employed ? If so that person never assessed this rifle .
It took me about 3 seconds after pulling it out of the box to have my heart sink and the excitement of a new gun turn to disappointment. This rifle has very little value the way it is, certainly not what I expected.
Jedman
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At first I agreed with pretty much everyone else saying you shouldn't have purchased it without getting an answer to your original questions, but changed my mind when I read this.
If the rifle didn't have an original barrel, the seller should have said so.
It sounds like you wanted this gun to badly. A M1899 in 38-55 is indeed of interest to a collector of them and the caliber is worth a premium. If this gun has an unmarked barrel then how does anybody know what caliber it is? You have a legitimate gripe as far as I'm concerned.
Good Luck trying to get any relief out of Gunbroker, their so-called Buyer Protection is just window dressing, and their customer service sucks.
Ask me how I know.
Good Luck trying to get any relief out of Gunbroker, their so-called Buyer Protection is just window dressing, and their customer service sucks.
Ask me how I know.
From what I heard the new owners are selling off the old stock left behind when the original owner died. Not sure if any of the old guns there are taken down and inspected hence the "as is".
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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greencobra
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Selling as is is cool, but is it as is even if it doesn't match the description? In this case the caliber.
fencer
NES Member
I don't care where the OP is from.
They screwed him. They know it. They don't want to fix it.
Sure, there were warnings and yep, maybe he should have known better. But the bottom line is that they were deceptive and slimey.
What difference does it make where they shipped the rifle? Would it be worse if they shipped it somewhere in New England.
I run a small business, and I would never treat a customer this way. I have had transactions where I lost money to do the right thing.
They screwed him. They know it. They don't want to fix it.
Sure, there were warnings and yep, maybe he should have known better. But the bottom line is that they were deceptive and slimey.
What difference does it make where they shipped the rifle? Would it be worse if they shipped it somewhere in New England.
I run a small business, and I would never treat a customer this way. I have had transactions where I lost money to do the right thing.
greencobra
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Agree 100%, for sure. I don't know what I'd do, maybe a certified letter requesting a refund because the description isn't what it is. Wish I had an answer.
fencer
NES Member
I know exactly what I would do. I would jump in my truck, drive to route 1 and confront them in person.
It would be more about the principle than the money.
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Buyer beware of bad auctions.
As is in a lot of things that happen in life you would like to rethink and maybe act differently but that isnt going to happen. I do take some responsibility for what happened by not getting answers to questions before I bid and not scrutinizing the listing better. Right now I have filed complaints with 5 different agencies and it is a matter of waiting for a response from the seller as they give them 30 days to respond.
I have thought about this a lot, if Gartman took this gun in from a trade or a purchase from a individual they would have given very little for it as if you have the gun in your hands you can tell it has many issues with it. If it has been something the father bought years ago and had ideas of a sort of project gun that he never got to it should have been listed that way ?
Of the hundreds of firearms that I have owned and will probably buy dozens more, this will be a lesson learned either way it turns out, I hope it gives others a little better knowledge in possible pitfalls of buying any item from someone else's description sight unseen.
Jedman
I have thought about this a lot, if Gartman took this gun in from a trade or a purchase from a individual they would have given very little for it as if you have the gun in your hands you can tell it has many issues with it. If it has been something the father bought years ago and had ideas of a sort of project gun that he never got to it should have been listed that way ?
Of the hundreds of firearms that I have owned and will probably buy dozens more, this will be a lesson learned either way it turns out, I hope it gives others a little better knowledge in possible pitfalls of buying any item from someone else's description sight unseen.
Jedman
greencobra
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Sure, I would too. I was looking at it from his perspective, coming from Ohio, doesn't have that option.
LTCRN
NES Member
If the daughter / owner is firearm knowledgeable and Jim Sheppard (sp.), former owner of Zero Hour Arms, is helping out, then something is very wrong with this transaction. Let's hope that the right thing is done without another gun shop being closed.
I was just there 2 hours ago.
i recognized most of the guys at the counters from local gun shows, and other ffl's.
At least they are open 5 days a week again.
i am still waiting to get burned by a GB auction, but I prefer to trust my favorite 3 dealer ID's.
600 bucks is a lot to loose, BUT ... YOU bid 450 up to 695, 48 hours before the end of the auction. (And THAT was 48 hrs. After the 450 bid.) On Wall St. Your research RESPONSIBILITY is called "due diligence."
( I have done similar things, but not in that price range. And ... Usually, when I pull a stunt like that, I chalk it up to my own, personal, DRUNK-broker account ID.)
J, I am sorry you skunked yerseff on this one, but the ad said PLEASE CALL.
( this part is completely subjective, so, don't read this ... What an ugly gun, and a terrible repair job.)
StkShk
( sorry, I just re-read that, and it sounds a little harsh. But, not wrong.)
p.s. Please use spell check in your legal dealings-nissez.
i recognized most of the guys at the counters from local gun shows, and other ffl's.
At least they are open 5 days a week again.
i am still waiting to get burned by a GB auction, but I prefer to trust my favorite 3 dealer ID's.
600 bucks is a lot to loose, BUT ... YOU bid 450 up to 695, 48 hours before the end of the auction. (And THAT was 48 hrs. After the 450 bid.) On Wall St. Your research RESPONSIBILITY is called "due diligence."
( I have done similar things, but not in that price range. And ... Usually, when I pull a stunt like that, I chalk it up to my own, personal, DRUNK-broker account ID.)
J, I am sorry you skunked yerseff on this one, but the ad said PLEASE CALL.
( this part is completely subjective, so, don't read this ... What an ugly gun, and a terrible repair job.)
StkShk
( sorry, I just re-read that, and it sounds a little harsh. But, not wrong.)
p.s. Please use spell check in your legal dealings-nissez.
. I have noticed that the seller ba61super. ( Gartman Arms Co. ) no longer has any guns listed on Gunbroker. My transaction was there 5 th and they had 5 other guns listed afterward. They must have sold 1 more after mine as they have a total of 6 feedbacks.
Everyone else has left them positive feedback and I don't beleive they are bad people, I feel they just did not give this rifle I bought a good evaluation before listing it and do not want it back now that they know it's a POS. Even a broken clock is right on time twice a day !
Jedman
Everyone else has left them positive feedback and I don't beleive they are bad people, I feel they just did not give this rifle I bought a good evaluation before listing it and do not want it back now that they know it's a POS. Even a broken clock is right on time twice a day !
Jedman
Sucks all around...... now don't know where you will get with your issue but I have bought a few guns that where not "worth" the money.......funny thing is a few years later I parted out those guns and made my money back and then some. Maybe a option for you?
. Unfortunately I wouldn't get much parting it out either. The barrel is completely worthless , the sights are also non original and without much value. The forend might fetch $ 40 - $ 50 , The buttstock ? with the repaired crack and being modified not so much. The receiver has been refinished and the lever is blued and not case colored and the lever has about 3/16" droop with action closed so not very desirable. The butt plate is original and they go for about $ 15 so I wouldn't bother.
Thats about the sum of the whole gun.
I am not licked yet in my quest for a refund. There is something called the UCC ( Universal commercial Code ) it pertains to commercial business selling items. It says that even if a item is sold as is, No Return it has to be as listed or it can be returned. With this rifle the main part that would make it valuable ( original barrel in 38-55 cal. ) is not there and the claim to the bore being fine is so far from the truth. I also borrowed some 38-55 ammo from a friend who had some and tried to load and cycle the action. It would not feed the cartridges from the magazine, I'm not sure this was ever a 38-55 or even a converted from another caliber properly because the bullet nose jams into the front of the feed ramp every time and does not appear to be inline from the rotor.
Jedman
Thats about the sum of the whole gun.
I am not licked yet in my quest for a refund. There is something called the UCC ( Universal commercial Code ) it pertains to commercial business selling items. It says that even if a item is sold as is, No Return it has to be as listed or it can be returned. With this rifle the main part that would make it valuable ( original barrel in 38-55 cal. ) is not there and the claim to the bore being fine is so far from the truth. I also borrowed some 38-55 ammo from a friend who had some and tried to load and cycle the action. It would not feed the cartridges from the magazine, I'm not sure this was ever a 38-55 or even a converted from another caliber properly because the bullet nose jams into the front of the feed ramp every time and does not appear to be inline from the rotor.
Jedman
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Benko had project guns all over his shop,it looks like when he died his daughter started to sell all that stuff. I think you ended up with one of them. Unless it was being sold as a parts gun,or stated that it needed work they should stand behind it,and give your money back.
greencobra
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The way this is going I'm afraid you're gonna just eat it and come out with a valuable lesson. I hope its made right, doesn't look good though. With your experience collecting, I'm surprised you jumped on this, especially since they said you bought it, you own it..no returns. I would have recoiled away big time until I could have talked to them. IM Sorry This happened to you, maybe in the long run it will be made right. Good luck.
EJFudd
NES Member
Yep. Which is why buying an old used gun from them off the Internet... "as-is" with no inspection rights and no returns... would seem to be an unusually risky thing to do. Sad to say but this whole situation doesn't surprise me in the least.
Sorry, if I were buying a gun with "collectors value", I would want more photos then they posted. I also would have asked a bunch of questions and asked for additional photos on the gun before placing a bid.... especially if it's being sold "as is, no returns". Sounds like they are selling a shooter or project gun and you're looking for a collectors safe queen. The BBB and FBI fraud aren't going to do a damn thing about it. They sold you the gun that was pictured, you should have requested more detailed photos and asked more questions about the condition before bidding.
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