Buyer Baware of Gartman Arms Co. Online Sales thru Gunbroker

[Jedman]

I feel the need to post here about my experience with the current owner of Gartman Arms in Wrentham, MA. They are now selling on Gunbroker.com using the name
ba61super . I recently won a auction for a Savage M 1899 in 38-55 cal. here is the link to it, www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457842312
The gun I received has been rebarreled with a slim profile barrel with no makers name or caliber stamp not a Savage barrel. The forend was fitted to a octagonal barrel and now has cardboard shims to try to fill the gap. The complete gun has been reblued including the lever. The bore is listed as fine, the bore is dark, pitted, and worn, groove diameter at the muzzle measures .389 .
I sent this seller a question thru Gunbroker asking if the gun had been reblued and never got a answer. This is a 110 year old rifle and would have collector interest and value if parts were original. As you can see from the pictures they posted and the brief description there is no mention and no photos of the problem areas.
I believe there description is grossly misrepresented for this rifle and I should be allow to return it.
As you can see there listing says No Returns and that is the only answer I have received from them. I have called several times to try to speak to Diana Alexander the current owner but she has been unavailable and has not returned Email messages.
I have read much about this old gunshop online and realize there are some who have had good experiences with them when the father ran the business. They now have other guns listed on Gunbroker and you can see all have As Is, No returns in there listing. Most reputable sellers will allow a inspection period and if the gun is significantly different than what was advertised will except a return.
Heed this warning for anything bought sight unseen and without a inspection period.

Jedman

 

[icyclefar]

I sent this seller a question thru Gunbroker asking if the gun had been reblued and never got a answer.
Jedman

Whenever I'm interested in an auction or classifieds item, If a question goes unanswered I pass, no matter how good the item looks or how reasonable the price may seem.

 

[browncoat]

Probably the current owner of the shop doesn't have enough skill to make determinations on conditions/whether parts have been replaced.

 

[Royal]

Two excellent responses above. I plan to do business with Gartman Arms in the future and this doesn't shake my confidence (and no I'm not affiliated) in doing so.

 

[Royal]

. Double tap

 

[dnepro-mike]

I feel the need to post here about my experience with the current owner of Gartman Arms in Wrentham, MA. They are now selling on Gunbroker.com using the name
ba61super . I recently won a auction for a Savage M 1899 in 38-55 cal. here is the link to it, www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457842312
The gun I received has been rebarreled with a slim profile barrel with no makers name or caliber stamp not a Savage barrel. The forend was fitted to a octagonal barrel and now has cardboard shims to try to fill the gap. The complete gun has been reblued including the lever. The bore is listed as fine, the bore is dark, pitted, and worn, groove diameter at the muzzle measures .389 .
I sent this seller a question thru Gunbroker asking if the gun had been reblued and never got a answer. This is a 110 year old rifle and would have collector interest and value if parts were original. As you can see from the pictures they posted and the brief description there is no mention and no photos of the problem areas.
I believe there description is grossly misrepresented for this rifle and I should be allow to return it.
As you can see there listing says No Returns and that is the only answer I have received from them. I have called several times to try to speak to Diana Alexander the current owner but she has been unavailable and has not returned Email messages.
I have read much about this old gunshop online and realize there are some who have had good experiences with them when the father ran the business. They now have other guns listed on Gunbroker and you can see all have As Is, No returns in there listing. Most reputable sellers will allow a inspection period and if the gun is significantly different than what was advertised will except a return.
Heed this warning for anything bought sight unseen and without a inspection period.

Jedman

sorry about your experience. it sucks when shit like this happens. you still might have avenues to pursue this through GB. good luck.

 

[Jedman]

Right now I do have a complaint filed with,
The BBB a of the state of MA
IC3.gov a division of the FBI for Internet fraud
Fraud.com and I will file with Gunbroker after 30 days as that's there rule. Jedman

 

[Chet0729]

When ever I buy something from EBay, Gunbroker etc on line I take a hard look at the ad. It can tell you a lot about the seller. This seller didn't even take the time to find a good location to take pictures. Tools etc in teh ad you bought from. Some of their other ads feature a half filled ashtray and more junk.
This tells me they are not serious

 

[PaulR]

Right now I do have a complaint filed with,
The BBB a of the state of MA
IC3.gov a division of the FBI for Internet fraud
Fraud.com and I will file with Gunbroker after 30 days as that's there rule. Jedman

Welcome to NES!!!!!!!!

Looks like you're really damn serious about this issue, based on what you've done you should be getting some responses and action relatively quickly. Keep us posted on how it turns out.

 

[chopper_man]

Looks real good in the pictures, unfortunately no pictures of the fore-end. They seem to have a lot of positive reviews recently.

 

[J.A.C]

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like a crappy situation but if they noted all sales final etc if seems it was a risk buying it as most sales of that nature are. If They don't give two Sh*ts about customer service and making things right then that is a risk they take. Hence this thread.

 

[Boris]

I feel your pain but seller did specify no returns and he is not obligated to respond to any questions, including the ones on bluing.

The only thing I see here is bore listed as "fine" which can be grade or can be "fine enough to shoot". Otherwise you technically got on the guy. There are no direct lies.

There are a lot of posts and some sellers who consistently ride the edge of innuendos trying to present their wares for something more valuable than they really are. I hate when that happens and I hate dealing with sellers like that, but technically it's a "legitimate rape"

 

[knfmn]

I feel the need to post here about my experience with the current owner of Gartman Arms in Wrentham, MA. They are now selling on Gunbroker.com using the name
ba61super . I recently won a auction for a Savage M 1899 in 38-55 cal. here is the link to it, www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457842312
The gun I received has been rebarreled with a slim profile barrel with no makers name or caliber stamp not a Savage barrel. The forend was fitted to a octagonal barrel and now has cardboard shims to try to fill the gap. The complete gun has been reblued including the lever. The bore is listed as fine, the bore is dark, pitted, and worn, groove diameter at the muzzle measures .389 .
I sent this seller a question thru Gunbroker asking if the gun had been reblued and never got a answer. This is a 110 year old rifle and would have collector interest and value if parts were original. As you can see from the pictures they posted and the brief description there is no mention and no photos of the problem areas.
I believe there description is grossly misrepresented for this rifle and I should be allow to return it.
As you can see there listing says No Returns and that is the only answer I have received from them. I have called several times to try to speak to Diana Alexander the current owner but she has been unavailable and has not returned Email messages.
I have read much about this old gunshop online and realize there are some who have had good experiences with them when the father ran the business. They now have other guns listed on Gunbroker and you can see all have As Is, No returns in there listing. Most reputable sellers will allow a inspection period and if the gun is significantly different than what was advertised will except a return.
Heed this warning for anything bought sight unseen and without a inspection period.

Jedman

Interesting that the first post is complaining about a dealer.

You bought this gun after the dealer ignored (or didn't get) an email asking for details and now you're unhappy with the results?

How long did your attempts to get ahold of the dealer continue before you drastically escalated things?

 

[NHCraigT]

Interesting that the first post is complaining about a dealer.

You bought this gun after the dealer ignored (or didn't get) an email asking for details and now you're unhappy with the results?

How long did your attempts to get ahold of the dealer continue before you drastically escalated things?

.......and then came onto this sight (very recently joined for the sole purpose), to simply start posting complaints about the dealer......

 

[EJFudd]

When ever I buy something from EBay, Gunbroker etc on line I take a hard look at the ad. It can tell you a lot about the seller. This seller didn't even take the time to find a good location to take pictures. Tools etc in the ad you bought from. Some of their other ads feature a half filled ashtray and more junk.
This tells me they are not serious

This. The ad alone contains about a dozen subtle clues & warnings screaming (to me anyway): "Don't spend big money here without a whole lot more pix and info"!

In (minimal) defense of the seller, the listing does say to call with questions:

"Please ask all questions by phone during our business hours."

Some sellers just don't do e-mail. This is apparently one of them. When they say that, like it or not (and I don't), they usually mean it.

 

[slugworth]

Sucks, but that's what you get for not following through with communication before buying. If I didn't hear back from them on a question I wouldn't buy it .......

 

[mac1911]

have had my share of GB deals gone wrong....... anyway seems like a 38-55 is a odd cal and I wonder when was the last year savage put that out? The 99 was made for a long time, no? As said just looking at the pics and the poor description I dont think I would have bid the 300$ hope it works out for you.

 

[Jedman]

I reilize that I had to much of a want for this rifle and broke one of my own rules, If you contact them thru Gunbrokers ask a question message and you don't get a answer they don't want my business because that's why I am contacting them in the first place as I am serious about bidding. That should have been a big red flag to me but I went ahead and bid on it. I have bought over 40 firearms from online sales and almost always need to ask the seller a question about something not listed and have only once had to return a gun for a condition issue and that seller did refund my money minus shipping costs. The same applies here, if I am allowed to return the rifle I am out the FFL transfer fee and the return shipping costs.
For those of you who feel that I am being hard on Gartman Arms for discrediting them here on this forum I will list my user names for the online sales and purchases that I have made and you will see that in over 400 transactions I have a 100 % feedback as I believe in doing what I say , when I say and if it don't happen that way I will give a refund and make it right.

E bay, muskogavitch
Gunbroker, jethrothebodeen
Graybeard Outdoors. jedman

Jedman

 

[EJFudd]

For those of you who feel that I am being hard on Gartman Arms for discrediting them here on this forum, I will list my user names for the online sales and purchases that I have made and you will see that in over 400 transactions I have a 100% feedback as I believe in doing what I say, when I say and if it don't happen that way I will give a refund and make it right.

I don't think that anyone is questioning your credibility. The problem is that this one was clearly a risky, questionable, nearly blind gamble... with "As-is no returns" stated right there in the listing... and you happened to lose. I feel your pain and I hope you get some relief, but this listing had "suspicious" written all over it. Buyer beware!

I was never a fan of the old Gartman Arms and I doubt I'll ever become a big fan of the new Gartman Arms. Can't say I am really surprised about this at all. This is the kind of place that you need to deal with in person. I wouldn't do business with them via an "As-is no returns" Internet listing alone for anything.

 

[Paul455]

All of the naysayers on internet sites are the first to criticize you, until it happens to them.

I support calling out anyone who is not honest on a deal.

 

[usp45ct]

I support calling out anyone who is not honest on a deal.

You mean your version of honest? Gartman may feel they wrote that honestly.

 

[Snora]

It seems a bit unrealistic to expect an all original 110 year old gun; If it was original the seller would have an itemized description of every nut and bolt. Description is vague, I certainly wouldn't have bought something like that without assuming it was someone else's basket case.

 

[Chet0729]

Deal as described was full of red flags as i said earlier, poorly done pictures, no communication, no returns.
I can understand the no returns because buyers can be *******s sometimes. No communication is a huge red flag

 

[dhuze]

I don't buy anything that says "no returns" because It makes me think they are hiding something. I also won't buy anything if the seller won't answer a question. If he doesn't answer he didn't lie.

 

[Snora]

I don't buy anything that says "no returns" because It makes me think they are hiding something. I also won't buy anything if the seller won't answer a question. If he doesn't answer he didn't lie.

I sell everything as "no returns" because 1. this isn't Best Buy, items are described to the best of my ability, photos are taken of every angle, and all questions are answered honestly, and 2. I don't care if the buyer just doesn't like it, found a better deal elsewhere, etc. because that isn't a reason to waste my time to deal with returns. The only thing I'm hiding from are doofus buyers that want to blame everyone else for their mistakes.

 

[trippingpara]

I sell everything as "no returns" because 1. this isn't Best Buy, items are described to the best of my ability, photos are taken of every angle, and all questions are answered honestly, and 2. I don't care if the buyer just doesn't like it, found a better deal elsewhere, etc. because that isn't a reason to waste my time to deal with returns. The only thing I'm hiding from are doofus buyers that want to blame everyone else for their mistakes.

This.

 

[PaulR]

I feel for you OP, I really do, but somewhere out there in the internet there's a guy posting "Seller Beware of Jedman Online buys through Gunbroker" .....I take tons of pictures of an old gun, decent price for what it is, no warranties, no returns, no refunds if questions do not email please call......and the first thing he does is email questions......buys it....then wants a return and a refund.

[sad2]

 

[Jedman]

I would have never started this thread or even tried to contact the seller if the only problems would have been just the reblue, and the hillbilly fit forend, I would have just realized I needed to take a hard look at what was wrote and shown in the pics and seen that it wasn't right.
My main gripe is this is suppose to be a 38-55 ! The difference between a factory 38-55 and one of the more common calibers is huge as far as value goes. The barrel on this rifle is not marked as to what caliber it is, the bore at the muzzle end is so worn that I dropped a .378 dia. bullet in to the muzzle and it fell in about 2 inches before it stopped ! looking down the bore with a bright light looks like a dirty black sewer pipe. That is what they described as fine.
I paid a price that is about on par with a M 1899 A in 38-55 with a cracked buttstock and a few small issues, but what I got is a rifle of unknown caliber, terrible bore, with zero collector or shooter value.
It is not worth even half of what I paid and I feel like I got the shaft an you know where.
As I have mentioned before even if I am allowed to return it I am out the shipping both ways, the FFL fee ($80- $90 ) and a lot of PITA. Gartman s only out there sellers fee and the time and effort to list and ship the gun, A small price to pay for learning a lesson in online gun sales ethics.

Jedman

 

[7.62x39]

Probably the current owner of the shop doesn't have enough skill to make determinations on conditions/whether parts have been replaced.

Current owner is the daughter of the original owner. She was brought up in the gun business. Her husband is also one of the principals of the company.

 

[browncoat]

Current owner is the daughter of the original owner. She was brought up in the gun business. Her husband is also one of the principals of the company.

I'm aware of the first fact you mention, but not of the second. I have seen a few people who were "brought up in the business" who didn't have much of a clue about the business they were attempting to run. I don't know her, I have never been in Gartman Arms. All I know is, when a collector of antiques sees "fine" as a description of a bore, they probably think "NRA Fine" or some equivalent of that - they assume a certain level of remaining finish and a good bore. A non-expert might just look at it and think "looks fine" and put that in the description.