Boston LTC-A Recent Experience at BPD

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DrDavid

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OK so everyone knows Boston is a PITA for unrestricted LTC-A. I just wanted to share my recent experience at BPD meeting with the officer to submit my LTC-A application.

First, the obvious government BS. I made an appointment, arrived a half hour early, and they took me a half hour late. The entire process consisted of me filling out the Boston form (which is different from the generic state form on mass.gov site but asks the exact same questions), then meeting with the officer for her to enter that same info into a computer and print it out to be signed. Of course there was fingerprinting and paying for the app ($100 cash) and scheduling Moon Island, but what could have took 15 minutes took 90.

But here's what I really wanted to share. I came ready with a full page typed response to the "reason" I need an LTC-A. I've been told by numerous Boston police officers and those who have experience with Boston licensing that my "reason" is air tight and I should not have a problem. So after the officer asked me why I wanted the LTC, I gave her an abridged version of my letter (which involves personal defense in dangerous work environment, cash deposits, etc). After reading my letter, and after her asking me the "reason question" and me reciting my letter in response, she entered into the computer "sport/shoot" as my reason. In addition, she seemed rather confused with the paperwork (she had been doing this all day long) and then told me that because my driver's license was not a Mass license I might have a big problem getting the LTC. This says nothing to the fact that I brought two utility bills with my address on them and I have met persons who have received unrestricted Boston LTC's without Mass Driver's licenses. She did include my letter with my application which will be sent to the Lieutenant.

My point is that I had done lots of reading on forums and talked to guys at the club about Boston and I was prepped for some kind of intense interview with a discriminating officer to prove my case as to why I was requesting an unrestricted LTC. Instead I basically just got a bureaucrat to process (and kind of screw up) my application that will be decided on by a Wizard of Oz who I haven't and will not meet in person.

The bottom line is that for Boston, unless politically connected, it's all about the letter you write to make your case. That is THE ONLY important piece of convincing information the deciding officer will have to determine your "suitability" (assuming you have no criminal record and the rest of your application is on point).

The good news:

The officer was a very nice woman (not sure if she's doing this permanently) and the Moon Island range had lots of open slots (though they are only M-F 7 AM or 3:45 PM)


I'm only posting this because the original thread shared an experience that was many years old. Again, I have been told by those "in the know" that my reason for LTC request is "air tight" so I will keep everyone posted about how this turns out. The onus is completely on the applicant for this process. Moreover, you need to make sure the people working there do their job properly. They initially forgot to photocopy my driver's license. If I didn't remind them my application would have been halted as soon as it got to the appropriate officer's desk.
 
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I probably shouldn't find any humor in the OP, but the fact that you had a detailed letter that you probably toiled over, working and re-working, until the proper reasoning was solidified into a detailed,reasonable plea...and then they mark it sport/shoot. There's just a black humor here in Massachusetts that seems to permeate everything.
 
HTML:
Guessing you're an MD. You should have no trouble getting unrestricted in Boston, unless they've changed things recently. Don't give up.
 
No Trucks Allowed said:
I probably shouldn't find any humor in the OP, but the fact that you had a detailed letter that you probably toiled over, working and re-working, until the proper reasoning was solidified into a detailed,reasonable plea...and then they mark it sport/shoot. There's just a black humor here in Massachusetts that seems to permeate everything.
Click to expand...

Alice's Restaurant in reverse.
 
 
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DrDavid, I have a couple of questions. Was the woman assisting you with your application an administrator or a sworn officer? The officer that I dealt with was a very reasonable guy, some of the staff, however, aren't as experienced and there is a culture at BPD that doesn't like the idea of everyday people carrying guns.

Hind sight being 20/20, when you saw that your completed application was for, as you say, "sport/shoot", as opposed to the more conventional "target and hunting", "all lawful purposes", or "none", you should have requested that the process be stopped right then and there, before you signed the application, and asked to speak to someone of a higher authority to make your "air tight" case to. Alas, what's done is done but don't give up just yet. If you haven't taken the range test there may still be time to speak with Lt. Det. John McDonough, the current head of the Licensing Division. Ask to speak to him directly and/or send him your letter via registered/return receipt mail. Be polite and professional but don't take no for an answer. Be prepared to offer a vigorous and well reasoned defense of your case.

As for your "air tight" case, one man's "air tight" is another man's "so what" and it matters little who vetted your letter beforehand. OK, so you're a doctor, make cash deposits, go to some sketchy places, keep odd hours and you've got a clean record. Except for being a doctor, welcome to the club of the great unwashed masses. You've paid for your basic firearm safety class and got your bright and shiny certificate testifying that you now have an acknowledged, rudimentary understanding of firearms safety, the law, marksmanship and gun handling from your four hour course. OK, again, so what? If that's all you're bringing to the table, that's probably not going to be sufficient to bring you over the threshold that BPD sets for an unrestricted LTC. Most of these basic courses merely provide the bare minimum to the student to meet the legal requirements of the state.

How old are you, married, children (I'm looking at a demographics perspective here)? How long have you been handling firearms? What experience do you have in using firearms; a little hunting when you were a kid, some plinking here and there, maybe some formal target shooting at summer camp? Or, have you studied use of force law and have a solid working knowledge of MA firearm laws in general, taken any concealed carry classes from well respected schools or from NRA certified instructors, participated in any force on force training, are you a certified firearms instructor yourself? If you can answer and document a very little bit of the former and not very much at all of the latter, you're probably not going to make the cut in Boston. What are your bona fides? Can you demonstrate to the BPD that you take the responsibility of the carrying of a concealed lethal weapon with the gravest of seriousness and have gone out of your way to achieve that end?

Look, I think that every law abiding citizen that has reached the age of majority and is mentally fit has the right to self defense and the concomitant right to carry the tools of self defense. However, not everyone in the legislature or the various issuing authorities agrees with me. Such is life, justice and fairness notwithstanding. Regrettably, that's just how it rolls here the Cradle of Liberty. Help work to change it.

Talk to the Lieutenant before it's too late, you still might have a chance before the window of opportunity closes. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Unfortunately someone who comes prepared with specific reasons, and takes the time to put in work to prove his eligibility get's treated the same as someone who comes late with no type of paperwork or documentation. It's funny how the system works sometimes.
 
Leitrim said:
OK, again, so what? If that's all you're bringing to the table, that's probably not going to be sufficient to bring you over the threshold that BPD sets for an unrestricted LTC. Most of these basic courses merely provide the bare minimum to the student to meet the legal requirements of the state.

How old are you, married, children (I'm looking at a demographics perspective here)? How long have you been handling firearms? What experience do you have in using firearms; a little hunting when you were a kid, some plinking here and there, maybe some formal target shooting at summer camp? Or, have you studied use of force law and have a solid working knowledge of MA firearm laws in general, taken any concealed carry classes from well respected schools or from NRA certified instructors, participated in any force on force training, are you a certified firearms instructor yourself? If you can answer and document a very little bit of the former and not very much at all of the latter, you're probably not going to make the cut in Boston. What are your bona fides? Can you demonstrate to the BPD that you take the responsibility of the carrying of a concealed lethal weapon with the gravest of seriousness and have gone out of your way to achieve that end?
Click to expand...

No, none of that matters. If you can string together a few sentences about why you fit a certain profile (MD, attorney, NRA instructor, etc.), and back it up with documentation, it's easy to get unrestricted. Been there done that. There was a communication problem at some point in this application.
 
Bill, I also think that the good doctor had a communication problem with his interviewer. That said, it seems he failed to stick to his guns, as it were, and escalate to a higher authority, before he signed the completed application.

When I applied with BPD, I interviewed with a sworn officer. After the preliminaries, I was handed the completed application to sign. After reading that it was to be for T&H, I told the officer that, no, no, this simply will not do, at which point I was afforded the opportunity to make my case and present supporting documentation of my bona fides. I didn't have a long letter to present, the writing of which was labored over for long hours and with great forethought and anguish. After a fairly short conversation with the officer and his brief review of my supporting credentials, the officer then printed out a new application and amended the application to read ALP/None instead of T&H. T&H is Boston's default. What the magic formula is for Boston I couldn't tell you; I only know what worked in my case. I'm just "some dude" with no juice or connections with anybody. What I do have is that I've aged out of what could be considered the problematic demographics, I have decades of documented experience and a fairly significant dossier of solid credentials. Anecdotal evidence abounds as to what is the key to getting ALP in Boston. However, BPD doesn't post the recipe for their secret sauce.

If the good doctor is fresh out of his residency, mid to late twenties, and has not much more than his BFS certificate, that's probably not going to cut it. I may well be completely wrong. I don't know and BPD will neither confirm nor deny. All I know is what worked for me and from my very small data set I extrapolate from there. As they say, YMMV.
 
Thanks to the OP. I appreciate the updated info in this thread. I have my interview appointment on Dec. 14th. It's always a learning experience to hear what others have gone through.
I too feel I have some solid reasons for getting an unrestricted LTC A but I'm not holding my breath. I work with a guy who does security for let's call them "dancers" doing private parties. He had a letter from his boss prooving employment but still got target and hunting. I work with another guy who had a restricted LTC A but when he renewed it came back unrestricted. There doesn't seem to be any magic formula for Boston.
 
Ok so I'll try to answer most questions:

1. Yes, I'm an MD. A psychiatrist, and I have been attacked by patients before. Clean record, etc.

2. My rapport with the officer was just fine. She was a sworn officer, not a clerical worker. She was very nice and we were laughing and joking and shooting the shit the whole time. As long as the lieutenant reads my letter I'm not too concerned with the "sport/shoot" issue.

3. Demographics don't seem to be an issue.

4. The officers at Moon Island were emphatic that I would be "fine" but again, that means little.


As an aside, here's an update for MOON ISLAND:

1. You can fire TWO HANDED at all distances. NO NEED TO PRACTICE ONE HANDED BS. You do need to do double action at 7 yards though. 15 yards single or double.

2. If you can, go for the AM session. I did the 3:45 and by the time we were finishing it was dark out. As the fall/winter progress, that will only get worse.

3. The test is a lot easier than I thought. The officers were very nice and helpful. They want you to pass.


Finally, if for some reason I get a restricted, I will appeal it. From what I have been told, this will result in an unrestricted, as the BPD doesn't want to go through the hassle of the appeal process. I'm in no rush, though I do agree with everyone that this process is asinine.
 
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Thanks. For the next 6-8 weeks all that will remain is speculation. Ill update the thread when I receive the paperwork, restricted or not.
 
Hmmm...you have a lot more faith in the system than I do, but then I am part of the system. I hope you instincts and assessment of the situation prove to be correct. Candidly, you might have been better off with a civilian clerk than sworn member of the Irish Mafia er, ah I mean BPD [wink]
 
mark056 said:
Hmmm...you have a lot more faith in the system than I do, but then I am part of the system. I hope you instincts and assessment of the situation prove to be correct. Candidly, you might have been better off with a civilian clerk than sworn member of the Irish Mafia er, ah I mean BPD [wink]
Click to expand...

I've seen The Departed a dozen times. Does that count for anything?
 
DrDavid said:
Ok so I'll try to answer most questions:

1. Yes, I'm an MD. A psychiatrist, and I have been attacked by patients before. Clean record, etc.

2. My rapport with the officer was just fine. She was a sworn officer, not a clerical worker. She was very nice and we were laughing and joking and shooting the shit the whole time. As long as the lieutenant reads my letter I'm not too concerned with the "sport/shoot" issue.

3. Demographics don't seem to be an issue.

4. The officers at Moon Island were emphatic that I would be "fine" but again, that means little.


As an aside, here's an update for MOON ISLAND:

1. You can fire TWO HANDED at all distances. NO NEED TO PRACTICE ONE HANDED BS. You do need to do double action at 7 yards though. 15 yards single or double.

2. If you can, go for the AM session. I did the 3:45 and by the time we were finishing it was dark out. As the fall/winter progress, that will only get worse.

3. The test is a lot easier than I thought. The officers were very nice and helpful. They want you to pass.


Finally, if for some reason I get a restricted, I will appeal it. From what I have been told, this will result in an unrestricted, as the BPD doesn't want to go through the hassle of the appeal process. I'm in no rush, though I do agree with everyone that this process is asinine.
Click to expand...
Please contact me when you get your license. You should have easily qualified for an unrestricted LTC. I will PM my email.

I suspect the officer in question is the same one that created a certain amount of unnecessary confusion and drama with green card applications earlier this year which required intervention by one of our attorneys. You can always request that your restrictions be lifted. It's easy to do.


Leitrim said:
Bill, I also think that the good doctor had a communication problem with his interviewer. That said, it seems he failed to stick to his guns, as it were, and escalate to a higher authority, before he signed the completed application.

When I applied with BPD, I interviewed with a sworn officer. After the preliminaries, I was handed the completed application to sign. After reading that it was to be for T&H, I told the officer that, no, no, this simply will not do, at which point I was afforded the opportunity to make my case and present supporting documentation of my bona fides. I didn't have a long letter to present, the writing of which was labored over for long hours and with great forethought and anguish. After a fairly short conversation with the officer and his brief review of my supporting credentials, the officer then printed out a new application and amended the application to read ALP/None instead of T&H. T&H is Boston's default. What the magic formula is for Boston I couldn't tell you; I only know what worked in my case. I'm just "some dude" with no juice or connections with anybody. What I do have is that I've aged out of what could be considered the problematic demographics, I have decades of documented experience and a fairly significant dossier of solid credentials. Anecdotal evidence abounds as to what is the key to getting ALP in Boston. However, BPD doesn't post the recipe for their secret sauce.

If the good doctor is fresh out of his residency, mid to late twenties, and has not much more than his BFS certificate, that's probably not going to cut it. I may well be completely wrong. I don't know and BPD will neither confirm nor deny. All I know is what worked for me and from my very small data set I extrapolate from there. As they say, YMMV.
Click to expand...
I believe that I helped you with your application. If so, I was a little surprised they gave you an unrestricted license based upon your intent rather than current and active 'qualifications'. But I'm happy they did. [smile]
 
Thanks guys. I was cautiously optimistic but wouldn't have been surprised with a restricted license either. Truly a royal pain in the ass but well worth it.
 
Congratulations sir! Good job, although I agree with most, this should NOT have been a cause to worry about. I just got mine about 14 days ago (not in Boston but not too far from it). It was considerably easier which might mean a visit to a more friendly outlying area would be beneficial to yourself and others to ease nerves.
 
BPD is not as bad as some fear. They seem to be fair to business and property owners. Others may not be so lucky, they do require more than most.
 

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