BCM and MA

[rwl1955]

You know how backed up the EFA10 system is? Not to mention how inaccurate. Who would even be worried about this is a better question? I bet you think if you do more than 4 xfers a year they come get you to?

*******
Not the point, to think some DB leftist pol can threaten ME with ruining my life just to prove a political point is enraging. The Army taught me how to shoot and clean an M-16 and now this anti is threatening me? F you Maura and your band of anti's, be careful what you wish for. She/They underestimated the potential for a Trump victory and she and her kind are underestimating the tolerance of people like me for her BS.

 

[Point37]

You know how backed up the EFA10 system is? Not to mention how inaccurate. Who would even be worried about this is a better question? I bet you think if you do more than 4 xfers a year they come get you to?

No do you?...I don't work there so no clue how backed up/inaccurate they are...seems most people here are worried about being the example case for an ag that really doesn't mind spending tax payer money on stupid cases...doubt it would ever happen but I can't afford that happening to me so I'll leave that to someone with deeper pockets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MMArtist]

No do you?...I don't work there so no clue how backed up/inaccurate they are...seems most people here are worried about being the example case for an ag that really doesn't mind spending tax payer money on stupid cases...doubt it would ever happen but I can't afford that happening to me so I'll leave that to someone with deeper pockets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its backed up about 8 years as far as what they have reviewed for discrepancies. If you want to see how accurate it is ask an LEO friend to run your list of firearms. It will be comically inaccurate if you do any volume of buying/selling.

I don't think people stop and think about how little money and manpower is allocated to these programs. Think of how disorganized the DMV or the court system is... They have WAY more resources and are still horrible. Have you ever had any dealings with state or federal record keeping. If your worried about them going through the PILES and PILES of data and finding some serialized lower you built.. you greatly over estimate their organization, talent, and will to do anything but punch a clock, surf the internet for 8 hours, go home and collect a government check.

 

[drgrant]

^^^this...does anyone here want to efa10 the receiver they bought and built before the healey ban as a rifle today?...come on it's perfectly legal according to the law books...don't worry about it, it's just an "interpretation" of the law...no worries, right

IMHO at the user level this stupid AWB expansion BS is unlikely to get enforced, even if someone files FA-10s. Her action was quite obviously designed to threaten dealers, which is why they didn't send out a notice about it to every LTC holder in MA.

This was quite obviously designed to intimidate dealers + vendors.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Francis and chief in the same post.

My point is this..

How many people have been locked up over the 7/20 decree? None? ok
How many companies have actually lost a law suit over out of state ammo sales? None? ok

Both of those things are true except with the caveat that companies like midway et all rolled to a consent decree to avoid going to court over it. (and accumulating more fees).

You don't get it- this industry is largely made out of RAZOR THIN margins. One legal action by one company = entire profits in MA burned for a year.

Companies like Glock and others have gone to bat, or tried to, but they also have full time counsel under the hood. Most jim bob gun and ammo distributors, don't. That means a huge out of pocket expense for just one trip around the system.

I agree with your sentiment generally speaking but I'm not the one who decides wether or not to press the button to waste a a large 5 or 6 figure digit of cash on fighting the MA AG. IMHO years ago the NSSF should have opened a legal defense fund that dealers (and consumers) could have all donated to, in order to fight this bullshit, but that never happened. Because people are skinflints, and 90% of the gun owners in this state are "Jimmy 2 box" type guys who are happy with their Ruger SR9 with that CMR940 pride flag that pops out the top every time a round is chambered, and they keep
stumbling around talking about how little they spent on the gun. Some of the dealers are equally as spineless as well, they're content to sell "whatever gruel Camfour tells them is legal this month" and are content to just sit around and collect the cash because even with the shit laws, they
know that money on the supply side isn't going to just disappear into thin air.

How many dealers have been locked up over Glock sales? None? ok (People selling things not on the EOPS list isn't the same)

Dealers have been fined over the glock bullshit, and at least one dealer essentially went out of business because of it. (without rolling glocks, their
business model was non viable). Some have escaped the AGs attention but that is mostly by luck or lack of size, at this point.

Why pass a law when you can just mass mail a letter and everyone just bows down? You know what would have happened if every dealer got together and said "Pfft thats not a lawful decree she can go **** herself" absolutely nothing. A couple days after she comes out with that letter about the sales on the 20th were illegal BUT "I will choose not to prosecute at this time". BECAUSE SHE KNOWS SHE CAN'T. Its SO blatantly a bluff its hilarious that it worked.

I don't disagree with this statement, problem was the die was cast when every dealer shit their pants the moment the letter came out, instead of trying
to play chicken with her by not openly responded that this decree was legally invalid and that they would not be paying attention to it.

Once again though, it's business- the bottom line will nearly always get in the way of standing on principle.

Unfortunately I don't know any rich guys that want to open a gun shop for the hell of it so they can wage war against this idiot AG.

The glock thing is the same.. she takes you to court and what? says "well all Glock models are on the list but an AG sent a letter 10 years ago" or maybe "Well I have a secret list". Have you ever been in court.. these DAs and AGs could **** up a cup of coffee. Gimme a break. There are glock sales, straw sales by LEO etc EVERY DAY. How many people have been charged? None? Yeah cause the whole thing is bullshit but the gun community just goes along with it because "You wanna be the test case?".

You're woefully misinformed. There's at least one dealer who plead out to a FELONY for selling off list (EOPS violation) and several more who have gotten their pee-pee slapped by the AG, including one in the last year, for CMR940 violations. (CMR940 is civil, the bar is a lot lower, etc. ) Then rons (effectively) just got put out of business by it, because of some LEO with a pole up his ass.

There was at least one well constructed case, that Comm2A ran. Unfortunately it didn't get anywhere, because the court whined and said "cuz guns are bad" - that old excuse.

Quite frankly I could care less what some vendor wants to sell. I will get what I want irregardless.

Same here. I refuse to get butthurt about vendors that don't ship here though- IMHO that's part of the MA crying towel downtrodden gun owner
bs. I refuse to take part in that BS. If I want a BCM I buy a BCM. If I want a (insert some vendor that still ships here) I buy that. How they treat the "MA issue" is of very little concern to me. Hell I've even bought a KRAPBER handgun in the past that came in a box that said NO SALES TO MA on it
in huge letters. Krapber is shit, but not because of their blockade.

Gun community consumers and vendors need to stick together more than they do however. There are plenty that do..

You believe this fairytale, I don't. I disabused myself of this notion long ago. Most vendors just want your money. They don't give a shit about MA, this state, to the gun industry, is pretty much a piece of dog shit lodged in the bottom of someone's boot.

BCM apparently isn't one of them. They are a great company that makes very solid gear but any vendor that imposes extra rules above and beyond what we already have to deal with is not gonna get my business. Would you buy from a Gun store that needs an LTC, Driver License, and takes a picture "for their records" to buy ammo? no? well its the same thing.

Those two things are not even on the same planet, bad strawman argument, pls try again.

There's a big difference between a seller who won't inbound stuff here because MA is shit, vs a seller who wants to collect all kinds of unnecessary information from you. The first is an annoyance, the latter is invasive. If I get annoyed by a vendor, I just pick a different one. Or I use an intermediary that can get what I want. Sometimes these intermediaries are useful for a lot of other things. Everyone needs a Walter Sobchak or
three to call when the MA bullshit is in effect...

Don't cry... call walter instead.... and if you don't know a walter, then get to know one... or several.

(NSFW)




Mike

 

[Mass-diver]

^^^this...does anyone here want to efa10 the receiver they bought and built before the healey ban as a rifle today?...come on it's perfectly legal according to the law books...don't worry about it, it's just an "interpretation" of the law...no worries, right

It's a scare tactic with a threat of legal action which will cost money and time...who wants to play?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What does this have to do with unregulated parts though?

 

[MMArtist]

- - - Updated - - -

Both of those things are true except with the caveat that companies like midway et all rolled to a consent decree to avoid going to court over it. (and accumulating more fees).

You don't get it- this industry is largely made out of RAZOR THIN margins. One legal action by one company = entire profits in MA burned for a year.

Companies like Glock and others have gone to bat, or tried to, but they also have full time counsel under the hood. Most jim bob gun and ammo distributors, don't. That means a huge out of pocket expense for just one trip around the system.

I agree with your sentiment generally speaking but I'm not the one who decides wether or not to press the button to waste a a large 5 or 6 figure digit of cash on fighting the MA AG. IMHO years ago the NSSF should have opened a legal defense fund that dealers (and consumers) could have all donated to, in order to fight this bullshit, but that never happened. Because people are skinflints, and 90% of the gun owners in this state are "Jimmy 2 box" type guys who are happy with their Ruger SR9 with that CMR940 pride flag that pops out the top every time a round is chambered, and they keep
stumbling around talking about how little they spent on the gun. Some of the dealers are equally as spineless as well, they're content to sell "whatever gruel Camfour tells them is legal this month" and are content to just sit around and collect the cash because even with the shit laws, they
know that money on the supply side isn't going to just disappear into thin air.



Dealers have been fined over the glock bullshit, and at least one dealer essentially went out of business because of it. (without rolling glocks, their
business model was non viable). Some have escaped the AGs attention but that is mostly by luck or lack of size, at this point.



I don't disagree with this statement, problem was the die was cast when every dealer shit their pants the moment the letter came out, instead of trying
to play chicken with her by not openly responded that this decree was legally invalid and that they would not be paying attention to it.

Once again though, it's business- the bottom line will nearly always get in the way of standing on principle.

Unfortunately I don't know any rich guys that want to open a gun shop for the hell of it so they can wage war against this idiot AG.



You're woefully misinformed. There's at least one dealer who plead out to a FELONY for selling off list (EOPS violation) and several more who have gotten their pee-pee slapped by the AG, including one in the last year, for CMR940 violations. (CMR940 is civil, the bar is a lot lower, etc. ) Then rons (effectively) just got put out of business by it, because of some LEO with a pole up his ass.

There was at least one well constructed case, that Comm2A ran. Unfortunately it didn't get anywhere, because the court whined and said "cuz guns are bad" - that old excuse.



Same here. I refuse to get butthurt about vendors that don't ship here though- IMHO that's part of the MA crying towel downtrodden gun owner
bs. I refuse to take part in that BS. If I want a BCM I buy a BCM. If I want a (insert some vendor that still ships here) I buy that. How they treat the "MA issue" is of very little concern to me. Hell I've even bought a KRAPBER handgun in the past that came in a box that said NO SALES TO MA on it
in huge letters. Krapber is shit, but not because of their blockade.




You believe this fairytale, I don't. I disabused myself of this notion long ago. Most vendors just want your money. They don't give a shit about MA, this state, to the gun industry, is pretty much a piece of dog shit lodged in the bottom of someone's boot.



Those two things are not even on the same planet, bad strawman argument, pls try again.

There's a big difference between a seller who won't inbound stuff here because MA is shit, vs a seller who wants to collect all kinds of unnecessary information from you. The first is an annoyance, the latter is invasive. If I get annoyed by a vendor, I just pick a different one. Or I use an intermediary that can get what I want. Sometimes these intermediaries are useful for a lot of other things. Everyone needs a Walter Sobchak or
three to call when the MA bullshit is in effect...

Don't cry... call walter instead.... and if you don't know a walter, then get to know one... or several.

(NSFW)


Mike

First good post.

The glock thing I stand by. No one that I know of has been taken to court over the glock thing solely. Its selling off EOPS list.. which is different. The EOPS is a physical list with teeth behind it. The glock ban is not. The AG may have mentioned the glock sales in a plea deal but she would not have the leverage to go after them on any of the glock sales if they weren't selling off EOPS list products. She knows they are screwed because of the EOPS sales and will make them plea out to the whole thing. This is classic prosecutor tactics.

The 7/20 assault ban decree also has no teeth. Literally ZERO people will ever be charged over that letter.

As far as my analogy on the ID, LTC, Photo. I think its spot on. I am saying what BCM is going above and beyond what they actually need to do. IE I can't stand buying gun related stuff at Dick's Sporting Goods because they go above and beyond what they actually need to do by law. That being said, if they were BCM they would just remove all their stores from MA.. because "well the AG is crazy so we can't even sell apparel".

To me its ludicrous to defend these companies. When Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart etc has bigger gun rights balls than you.. well thats embarrassing.

 

[Mass-diver]

- - - Updated - - -



First good post.

The glock thing I stand by. No one that I know of has been taken to court over the glock thing solely. Its selling off EOPS list.. which is different. The EOPS is a physical list with teeth behind it. The glock ban is not. The AG may have mentioned the glock sales in a plea deal but she would not have the leverage to go after them on any of the glock sales if they weren't selling off EOPS list products. She knows they are screwed because of the EOPS sales and will make them plea out to the whole thing. This is classic prosecutor tactics.

The 7/20 assault ban decree also has no teeth. Literally ZERO people will ever be charged over that letter.

As far as my analogy on the ID, LTC, Photo. I think its spot on. I am saying what BCM is going above and beyond what they actually need to do. IE I can't stand buying gun related stuff at Dick's Sporting Goods because they go above and beyond what they actually need to do by law. That being said, if they were BCM they would just remove all their stores from MA.. because "well the AG is crazy so we can't even sell apparel".

To me its ludicrous to defend these companies. When Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart etc has bigger gun rights balls than you.. well thats embarrassing.

Spot on.

 

[drgrant]

-
The glock thing I stand by. No one that I know of has been taken to court over the glock thing solely.

Several shops got hit with fines and the deal is usually something like one of these three options:

-stop doing stuff and we'll leave you alone
-pay this 5-10K fine, stop doing stuff, and we'll leave you alone
-keep selling stuff and then we'll make you pay LOTS of fines.

Now supposedly, many years ago, Mike @ Titegroup "took them to court" and they didn't show, but that was under a different
AG.

Can someone fight CMR940 in court? Maybe. But you'd better really have your shit together and be prepared to run the case very
deep, because the shit MA courts will rubber stamp her bullshit likely no problem. It's cheaper to just pay the fine/acquiesce and move on.

The AG may have mentioned the glock sales in a plea deal but she would not have the leverage to go after them on any of the glock sales if they weren't selling off EOPS list products.

Not true at all. Recently one shop was whacked with a fine just for Glocks. There was an article posted about this recently.

Back when FS was told to pull their post 98 glocks back (2005?) they were told to do so or they'd be assessed huge fines.

She knows they are screwed because of the EOPS sales and will make them plea out to the whole thing. This is classic prosecutor tactics.

Not really, you're messing two things up here. EOPS violations are criminal. CMR940 is civil. The action doesn't even take place in the same legal arena.

The 7/20 assault ban decree also has no teeth. Literally ZERO people will ever be charged over that letter.

I agree but the only reason there will be no charges is because Healy wants to keep this dog and pony show running as long as possible. If she actually charges
someone, that means the case rides with a criminal defendant, and it gets easier to crush her and end the show.

Fun part though is good luck getting anyone who is an 01 or 07 FFL in MA to intentionally dive into that pool and wave a red flag around.

As far as my analogy on the ID, LTC, Photo. I think its spot on.

I still think you're comparing two distinctly different things.

I am saying what BCM is going above and beyond what they actually need to do. IE I can't stand buying gun related stuff at Dick's Sporting Goods because they go above and beyond what they actually need to do by law. That being said, if they were BCM they would just remove all their stores from MA.. because "well the AG is crazy so we can't even sell apparel".

Nah, they're not going "above and beyond" anything- they decided that doing business here, with the current situation in play, is potentially too risk laden or too expensive. So they don't send stuff here. This is no different than a car company deciding that they're not going to put a dealer in some state, because the demographics suck too much to support the dealer, or any number of other reasons.

To me its ludicrous to defend these companies. When Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart etc has bigger gun rights balls than you.. well thats embarrassing.

You're completely wrong on this too. Walmart doesn't even sell guns in MA anymore (at least to the best of my knowledge). They pulled their guns here because of MA cooties. IIRC DSG also pulled AR-15s off the racks as well. So don't use them as examples as "pro rkba piety" because they both fail that test miserably. Saying that they're "better than BCM is cause at least they still sell some stuff" is laughable.

Buy from who you want, or don't. I just don't get the pissing and moaning though, doesn't help anything, and it isn't going to make the vendor stop acting retarded.

-Mike

 

[Point37]

What does this have to do with unregulated parts though?

Nothing...just saying that she is so unpredictable with making up new laws and these companies don't want to bother with MA even when it's perfectly legal to sell these parts and they have money to back a fight with her...as compared to a gun owner taking a chance to efa10 a new ar now after her bs ruling and not have the money to back a fight with her...it's a gamble...bcm isn't going to play when they have the cash and its legal...I'm not going to play cause I don't have the cash and it was "interpreted" illegal...that's all I'm saying...waiting for her to gtfo and the interpretation to be removed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drgrant]

The idea that she would go after non-MA companies for selling BCGs is absurd. Let's not make her more powerful than she is.....

That was already thrown out the window when Midway, SportsmansGuide, and other dumb companies signed consent decrres for stupid shit that wasn't even regulated, instead of taking the AG to court. The consent decrees made them LEGALLY BOUND to doing things that were WORSE than the law! THAT would have been the time for a bunch of the bigs to get pissed at the AGs office. But they bent over, instead...

I can't even buy a knife that says WINCHESTER on the side of it from Sporstmasnguide. Meanwhile you can find it in the checkout lane at a walmart...

-Mike

 

[Mass-diver]

Nothing...just saying that she is so unpredictable with making up new laws and these companies don't want to bother with MA even when it's perfectly legal to sell these parts and they have money to back a fight with her...as compared to a gun owner taking a chance to efa10 a new ar now after her bs ruling and not have the money to back a fight with her...it's a gamble...bcm isn't going to play when they have the cash and its legal...I'm not going to play cause I don't have the cash and it was "interpreted" illegal...that's all I'm saying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doing an FA10 on a new AR is a gamble for sure. Unregulated parts have nothing to do her "interpretation." As much as I hate her, she's not at unpredictable and her interpretation, while incorrect, isn't out of left field at all.

 

[matt2491]

Not true at all. Recently one shop was whacked with a fine just for Glocks. There was an article posted about this recently.

I thought the main offense was for selling out of his home residence. They tacked on the Glock thing for good measure.

 

[Terminator03]

I thought the main offense was for selling out of his home residence. They tacked on the Glock thing for good measure.

Either way, it was selling Glocks that got him on the radar to begin with.

 

[rwl1955]

Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey's interpretation of the law is consistently done for her own benefit in contravention of her oath of office.
She took an established law the hard left got passed 19 yrs ago and totally changed it, unilaterally, with ambiguous generalities called : " guidance, " such that it can mean anything she wants it to, at any time in the future.
Classic abuse of power for personal gain.
Mockery of the oath of office. ..... Shame .

*******
She's a kool-aid drinker and a committed leftist, Nuff said.

 

[Mass-diver]

Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey's interpretation of the law is consistently done for her own benefit in contravention of her oath of office.
She took an established law the hard left got passed 19 yrs ago and totally changed it, unilaterally, with ambiguous generalities called : " guidance, " such that it can mean anything she wants it to, at any time in the future.
Classic abuse of power for personal gain.
Mockery of the oath of office. ..... Shame .

Of course, republican governor Baker fully supported her interpretation.

 

[rwl1955]

Of course, republican governor Baker fully supported her interpretation.

*****
That was his first response until he took heat.

 

[EddieZoom]

*****
That was his first response until he took heat.

Has he come out with a different opinion publicly ?

 

[rwl1955]

Has he come out with a different opinion publicly ?

*******
From what I recall he backtracked.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/lo...v_baker_raises_alarm_about_new_healey_gun_ban

 

[Mass-diver]

*****
That was his first response until he took heat.

That was the one that counted, he's an incredible POS and while it didn't hurt him in MA, his alliance to Healy has certainly damaged him at the national level. He's the ultimate RINO, a true coward and traitor.

 

[rwl1955]

That was the one that counted, he's an incredible POS and while it didn't hurt him in MA, his alliance to Healy has certainly damaged him at the national level. He's the ultimate RINO, a true coward and traitor.

******
He's a Ma. Republican, what do you expect? I'll still take him over Deval, Coakley, Healey,etc.

 

[KMM696]

******
He's a Ma. Republican, what do you expect? I'll still take him over Deval, Coakley, Healey,etc.

You're not wrong, but it feels like saying "I'll take skin cancer over brain cancer".


Someday I hope to actually vote for a politician, instead of against one. I also hope to meet the Easter Bunny.

 

[Mass-diver]

******
He's a Ma. Republican, what do you expect? I'll still take him over Deval, Coakley, Healey,etc.

Not me, I'd never vote for him again. He's a liar and a fraud, at least the leftist are upfront about their treasonous goals.

 

[oldguy68]

Here, here on never voting for a two faced rino with gender identity problems.
If he had a set he would have stood his ground!

 

[rwl1955]

Here, here on never voting for a two faced rino with gender identity problems.
If he had a set he would have stood his ground!

*******
Why? It would have been political suicide. Remember, just having a RINO Republican as Governor is enough to make moonbats crazy. You have to take your small victories when you can get them. They'll NEVER be a true conservative w/a chance of winning a major political seat in Ma. ever again. We must face reality.

 

[Mass-diver]

*******
Why? It would have been political suicide. Remember, just having a RINO Republican as Governor is enough to make moonbats crazy. You have to take your small victories when you can get them. They'll NEVER be a true conservative w/a chance of winning a major political seat in Ma. ever again. We must face reality.

Nah, he jumped at the chance to immediately defend Healy - it was brutal, he gave her 100% support right off the bat.

He could have just kept his mouth shut and it wouldn't have hurt him. This guy is a special kind of RINO - his action was outrageous.

 

[rwl1955]

Nah, he jumped at the chance to immediately defend Healy - it was brutal, he gave her 100% support right off the bat.

He could have just kept his mouth shut and it wouldn't have hurt him. This guy is a special kind of RINO - his action was outrageous.

*******
You are correct but he backed off when he got hammered by us. At least he listened, which is more than a Dem moonbat Governor would have done. Remember, he and the AG are co-equals, he can't do anything to her so he's not going to waste political capital on a losing cause.

 

[drgrant]

*******
You are correct but he backed off when he got hammered by us. At least he listened, which is more than a Dem moonbat Governor would have done. Remember, he and the AG are co-equals, he can't do anything to her so he's not going to waste political capital on a losing cause.

Basically empty words. Baker is worthless. What good is he if he won't even stand up for the people who voted for him?

-Mike

 

[amm5061]

Basically empty words. Baker is worthless. What good is he if he won't even stand up for the people who voted for him?

-Mike

I have this fear that I'm going to have to vote for him anyway next election, because it's going to end up being him or Healey.

 

[pdm]

Basically empty words. Baker is worthless. What good is he if he won't even stand up for the people who voted for him?

-Mike

I read his name as Beaker, and now I can't get that muppet out of my mind's eye. Thanks, Mike.