ATTENTION: Dealers and those who buy from them

[eightyeight]

This is going to be my first and last post on this site. I'm going to ask to have my account deleted.

There's a sting operation underway in MA right now that could happen as soon as this weekend.

The authorities are going to try to bust a gun dealer for selling a handgun that is not on the Approved Roster. It'll be one of those guns that seems to be approved, but will be a slightly different finish or model. Since many dealers have only a partial grasp of the convoluted regulations in your state, it should be easy for them to find a victm.

It will be a weak case at best and the dealer will probably beat it in court, but that is not the reason for this exercise. The Patrick administration hopes to play it up big in the media, and use it as a reason to crack down and enact even stricter laws.

Please tell your local dealers about this, and urge them to use extreme caution in the coming weeks.

 

[Admin]

Here is my shocked face.

 

[EddieCoyle]

This is what happens when you re-elect these people and tell them not to reduce the sales tax. They get cocky.

 

[bodybagsryan]

Say it ain't so.

 

[Squished]

Here is my shocked face.

 

[FPrice]

Troll?

Or inside information?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not surprising info even if true.

I'd love to be on a jury where we had to determine that it's a felony to sell a gun with walnut grips, but the exact same gun with plastic grips is safe/legal to sell. [Hypothetical, but there are some models that fit this issue.]

 

[Admin]

Not surprising info even if true.

I'd love to be on a jury where we had to determine that it's a felony to sell a gun with walnut grips, but the exact same gun with plastic grips is safe/legal to sell. [Hypothetical, but there are some models that fit this issue.]

Yep, this doesn't surprise me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yep, this doesn't surprise me.

Derek,

As a former product safety engineer and supervisor of a product safety lab, this part drives me nuts. HOWEVER, the fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the companies submitting products for approval of CHSB/EOPS. If they had a f'n clue how to do this correctly, those sort of "issues" would never be issues at all.

I had high hopes that if we got Jim McKenna in as AG to deal with the major problems, that I'd be able to do some things to address these lesser issues with CHSB/EOPS via the mfrs of the guns. Not so sure that the mfrs really care anymore due to AG issues anyway.

 

[Squished]

Not surprising info even if true.

I'd love to be on a jury where we had to determine that it's a felony to sell a gun with walnut grips, but the exact same gun with plastic grips is safe/legal to sell. [Hypothetical, but there are some models that fit this issue.]

Sig comes to mind.

 

[grew]

I still don't understand why you would waste all this man power/hours on something like this?

 

[Dirtypacman]

LenS - No fault on the over reaching and over bearing laws that require the submission to start with?

 

[Admin]

I still don't understand why you would waste all this man power/hours on something like this?

It's about pushing an anti-gun agenda.

 

[Bob P]

Not surprising info even if true.

I'd love to be on a jury where we had to determine that it's a felony to sell a gun with walnut grips, but the exact same gun with plastic grips is safe/legal to sell. [Hypothetical, but there are some models that fit this issue.]

Len,

Assuming the OP has the correct info, they wouldn't care if the case got tossed. They're looking for a publicity fest. Patrick is pissed his 1 gun bill got shot down and would love nothing more than to crack down as a political sop to his backers. Think of the fun the Globe could have with this - Unscrupulous Gun Dealers Selling Illegal Guns blah blah blah.

Stir up enough muck and you can psuh anything past the voters.

 

[Len-2A Training]

LenS - No fault on the over reaching and over bearing laws that require the submission to start with?

I think you know me better than that.

Hating the laws won't make them go away.

If mfrs want to make an attempt to meet them (their decision) they need competent people dealing with the bureaucracy or they will get run over by it.

This is similar to those that put down "Reason of issuance: hunting and target shooting" in a "green town" and then bitch that they got a restricted LTC!!!

 

[M1911]

It's about pushing an anti-gun agenda.

This.

Patrick wasn't able to get his One Gun A Month bill through the legislature last time around. He had his shills pushing the anti-gun message in the press, but still didn't get the bill to the floor.

So this time, he's going to stage a sting, have some poor dealer do the perp-walk, pivot that into lots of press coverage for his anti-gun message, and use that as a spring-board for his anti-gun legislation that he will file at the start of the next legislative session, in January 2011.

 

[drgrant]

The confusing part about that guy's post is I don't see how they are going to turn handgun compliance into a cause celebre- it just doesn't make sense. They could have done this years ago with the whole BPS incident, but they never bothered. It's still pretty hard to spin "wrong finish color" into "extra deadly banned baby killing sniper handgun."

If anything, I figured Deval would still be whining about the Westfield MG incident..... easier to get "appeal" when you can flash a pic of a dead kid on the screen.

-Mike

 

[Dirtypacman]

I think you know me better than that.

Hating the laws won't make them go away.

If mfrs want to make an attempt to meet them (their decision) they need competent people dealing with the bureaucracy or they will get run over by it.

This is similar to those that put down "Reason of issuance: hunting and target shooting" in a "green town" and then bitch that they got a restricted LTC!!!

Well said, understood and now agree

 

[Blitz1]

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[M1911]

The confusing part about that guy's post is I don't see how they are going to turn handgun compliance into a cause celebre- it just doesn't make sense. They could have done this years ago with the whole BPS incident, but they never bothered. It's still pretty hard to spin "wrong finish color" into "extra deadly banned baby killing sniper handgun."

Oh, I can clearly see it. The headline for the Globe article will be "Evil gun dealer knowingly sells unsafe guns," above a picture of the dealer doing the perp walk.

The guns didn't meet the MA consumer protection laws and regulations, therefore they are "unsafe." The details about the finish being different will be in paragraph 17, below the fold.

The murder rate in Boston is up and Patrick is under pressure to "do something" about it. So this is what he's going to do. He'll trumpet how he's doing this to keep our Commonwealth safe. You and I (and anyone with a brain) know that it won't have any impact on crime. But, as shown in the last election, the "progressives" in this state don't have a brain. This crap is like mother's milk to them.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'd love to be on a jury where we had to determine that it's a felony to sell a gun with walnut grips, but the exact same gun with plastic grips is safe/legal to sell. [Hypothetical, but there are some models that fit this issue.]

I would guess "do you have an LTC?" and "have you ever purchased a handgun from a dealer" would be pretty basic questions in voir dire, and that a MA judge wouldn't even make the prosecution get use up a peremptory challenge to get rid of anyone who answered in the affirmative.

Also, the jury will be told they are only to determine if the defendant did something that violates the law as explained by the judge, so the chances of jury nullification are slim.

 

[Admin]

Oh, I can clearly see it. The headline for the Globe article will be "Evil gun dealer knowingly sells unsafe guns," above a picture of the dealer doing the perp walk.

The guns didn't meet the MA consumer protection laws and regulations, therefore they are "unsafe." The details about the finish being different will be in paragraph 17, below the fold.

Yep, as long as it's a headline the sheep legislators won't care about the facts.

 

[hicksonj]

Read this: http://www.goal.org/regulationpages/fraudreport.html

Goal did a great job (and spent a fortune) of digging up the genesis of AG interplay beyond the roster (http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster.pdf). Every time I hear the words "Saturday Night Special," I get ill.

 

[glide]

I hope they catch someone buying a Kimber and then have to explain how it is an inferior product made of inferior materials in court.

 

[Dench]

Anyone with a clue shouldnt be worried.

 

[cb1]

FYI, I went to look at the approved weapons roster and apparently the CHSB is now the Department of Criminal Justice Information Services (DCJIS)

 

[flintoid]

This makes me feel ill. I hope this doesn't happen. I don't want to see an innocent dealer get hosed by a sleezy move like this.

I honestly feel that the MA democrats lube their political machine with diarrhea instead of grease.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I would guess "do you have an LTC?" and "have you ever purchased a handgun from a dealer" would be pretty basic questions in voir dire, and that a MA judge wouldn't even make the prosecution get use up a peremptory challenge to get rid of anyone who answered in the affirmative.

Also, the jury will be told they are only to determine if the defendant did something that violates the law as explained by the judge, so the chances of jury nullification are slim.

Spoilsport!! I can dream, can't I?

Yes, I know that I'd never get on such a jury for a lot of reasons, the above are only a few of them.

I hope they catch someone buying a Kimber and then have to explain how it is an inferior product made of inferior materials in court.

The judge (in MA) probably would NOT allow such testimony. S/he would only allow testimony that the gun wasn't approved, not that it would meet all the requirements of legal approval. It's for the children, don't you know?

 

[JayD]

Anyone with a clue shouldnt be worried.

x2

 

[MassMark]

Sounds great...Let the good times roll. Maybe they got tired of hassling law abiding citizens over pre-ban AR mags at their place of business and needed something more fun to do...Would be nice if all the FFL's in this state, (except Northeast Traitors), would band together, lawyer-up and push back....