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ATF Test, Examination and Classification of 7N6 5.45x39 Ammunition

sigh. The 68 GCA and it's 86 amendments are the culprit here... we gotta get those repealed so we can ship guns and buy new full auto guns! It's not just the ammo.
 
such bullshit. i've never even seen one of these in person or for sale anywhere.

they had one of the guys in the ninja suits raid his personal collection for something to use here.

paging bracken.
 
EDIT --

AH - I get it. Seems they are really gonna go after this stuff. 7N6 is supposed to have a steel core mass not even 1/2 the total mass of the bullet and the jacket isn't mentioned, so I guess it's under 25% of the mass. You'd think it shouldn't qualify under the test. It has to have an (essentially) entirely non-lead internal construction or a jacket over 25% of the mass. But it mentions "core" composed entirely of those metals and I guess the rod is now a "core."
 
Last edited:
strangenh said:
EDIT --

AH - I get it. Seems they are really gonna go after this stuff. 7N6 is supposed to have a steel core mass not even 1/2 the total mass of the bullet and the jacket isn't mentioned, so I guess it's under 25% of the mass. You'd think it shouldn't qualify under the test. It has to have an (essentially) entirely non-lead internal construction or a jacket over 25% of the mass. But it mentions "core" composed entirely of those metals and I guess the rod is now a "core."
Click to expand...

The section of the GCA quoted by the ATF doesn't reference the % of mass with regards to the core of the projectile. As long as their is a core, and it is made of steel, the GCA considers it armor-piercing, regardless of whether it actually is or not.

a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;
Click to expand...
 
Is this the same stuff that they are talking about?

74Ammo_zps83dd351e.jpg
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I am trying to decide if I should buy a case out of spite.
 
joshk1025 said:
The section of the GCA quoted by the ATF doesn't reference the % of mass with regards to the core of the projectile. As long as their is a core, and it is made of steel, the GCA considers it armor-piercing, regardless of whether it actually is or not.

[/I]
Click to expand...

Yeah, any amount of "core" is a core, and any commercially-produced handgun is a handgun. It makes the "constructed entirely" part irrelevant, unless someone comes up with a nickel-brass core... which they won't.
 
SO that ATF notice says the following:
ATF’s determination applies only to the Russian-made 7N6 ammunition analyzed, not to all 5.45x39 ammunition. Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability.

Any other surplus 5.45 ammo qualifies for import? Sounds like I need to head up to NH and buy another couple of cases while it's still around.
 
In the letter they only mention handgun ammunition.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

Seems that the round was designed for a rifle??????
 
EC1 said:
In the letter they only mention handgun ammunition.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

Seems that the round was designed for a rifle??????
Click to expand...

Read (i) again. "or projectile core" ... "may be used in a handgun" ... "constructed entirely"

- - - Updated - - -

So to those more familiar with this caliber, is non-steel core 5.45x39 as effective? I thought the main reason this caliber was effective was because it is unstable upon entering flesh and tumbles a lot. Does that change without a steel core?
 
exodious said:
Read (i) again. "or projectile core" ... "may be used in a handgun" ... "constructed entirely"

- - - Updated - - -

So to those more familiar with this caliber, is non-steel core 5.45x39 as effective? I thought the main reason this caliber was effective was because it is unstable upon entering flesh and tumbles a lot. Does that change without a steel core?
Click to expand...

It would appear that they are using the Mass. definition of ammunition to include the component?
 
EC1 said:
It would appear that they are using the Mass. definition of ammunition to include the component?
Click to expand...

I agree that they may be stretching this a bit, but the law does say "core", it doesn't define what "core" really means, the 7N6 has what can be called (what the ATF is calling) a steel "core", and there are handguns that fire it. So I don't think (ii) even applies.
 
It seems to me that if they wanted to, they could also ban the importation of anything with a SS109 (M855) projectile since that too has steel in the projectile and there are .223 handguns. I've most commonly seen it described as a "steel penetrator" rather than "steel core", though. Similar concern for "steel core" 7.62x54r, though I don't think there are any commercially produced handguns in that caliber.
 
EC1 said:
In the letter they only mention handgun ammunition.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

Seems that the round was designed for a rifle??????
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if it was originally designed to be used in a rifle.

The ATF takes the position that even though steel core rifle ammo that might have been sold years, that once a pistol capable of firing that ammo is manufactured and commercially available, that ammo can no longer be sold to the public

The same thing happened with steel core Chinese 7.62x39 ammo back in the 90's...

1994 Steel-Core Importation Ban

Note: Where I posted "ammo", should technically be "projectiles".

Legally, anyone could acquire steel core rifle bullets, and reload it themselves for use in a rifle or pistol.
 
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exodious said:
What is the exemption?
Click to expand...

Supposedly there are specific, line item exemptions for some types of ammo, and M855 (and a few others, which I can't remember off the top of my head) mentioned by name.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Supposedly there are specific, line item exemptions for some types of ammo, and M855 (and a few others, which I can't remember off the top of my head) mentioned by name.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I'm willing to believe this, but I'd appreciate a cite. I'm looking for it now, but not having any luck.
 
exodious said:
I'm willing to believe this, but I'd appreciate a cite. I'm looking for it now, but not having any luck.
Click to expand...

The other one is M2 ball (30-06).

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/a...and-why-green-tip-m855-is-not-armor-piercing/

Somewhere this was derived from an ATF bulletin circulated which describes AP ammo, that was circulated in PDF and otherwise. I used to have a copy of it a long time ago, wonder if it still exists on any of my storage, but probably not, since it really only ever applied to dealers and importers I mostly stopped caring about it.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The other one is M2 ball (30-06).

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/a...and-why-green-tip-m855-is-not-armor-piercing/

Somewhere this was derived from an ATF bulletin circulated which describes AP ammo, that was circulated in PDF and otherwise. I used to have a copy of it a long time ago, wonder if it still exists on any of my storage, but probably not, since it really only ever applied to dealers and importers I mostly stopped caring about it.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Closest I could find...

"Exemptions: The following articles
are exempted from the definition of armor
piercing ammunition.
5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855
Ammunition, identified by a green coating
on the projectile tip.
U.S. .30-06 M2AP, identified by a
black coating on the projectile tip"
Click to expand...

http://books.google.ca/books?id=9en...green coating on the projectile tip."&f=false
 
n1heu said:
The ruling quotes thus : "a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber " 5.45mm=0.214567inch<.22 caliber not more.
Click to expand...

less than 22 only matters for section (ii) not (i), which applies to any ammunition for a commercially available handgun.

- - - Updated - - -

ColdDayInHell said:
7.62x54r better not be next.
Click to expand...

We just gotta make sure no one starts commercially offering 91/30 pistols ;)
 

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