This is not a done deal. The public comment period ends on 3/16. If they get a few million letters the may drop this for now. And if congress gets a few million letters they may finally get off their hind ends and do something about ATF.
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ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855
- Thread starter Synyster
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This is not a done deal. The public comment period ends on 3/16. If they get a few million letters the may drop this for now. And if congress gets a few million letters they may finally get off their hind ends and do something about ATF.
Well, my reading of the new BATF notice wouldn't classify M855 as AP either...I realize XM193 won't be lumped in, I'm saying people will buy up everything in a "panic." That is what this is...a "panic." Technically, the ATF has not banned anything yet.....still, here we are.
scatter
NES Member
Natchez has XM193 bulk for 0.34 per round, plus shipping. Not great but not terrible. I just picked up a case after reading this thread, plus I was running a little low after some recent training.
the_shootist
Banned
^^^^THIS^^^^^
"To Whom it May Concern,
The potential ban on M855 is not only wrong but unconstitutional. Free, law abiding citizens have every right to purchase firearms and weapons freely along with ammunition. The government- specifically the ATF has no business interfering with the right and We The People take this possible infringement extremely seriously. As my public servant I am telling you to not take action on this potential illegal action and we will fight this every step of the way.
From a proud, hardworking, law abiding citizen who believes in the values this country stands for. Thank you for keeping your Oath to the USA.
Sincerely,
Tucker O'Brien Perkins
New Hampshire"
The potential ban on M855 is not only wrong but unconstitutional. Free, law abiding citizens have every right to purchase firearms and weapons freely along with ammunition. The government- specifically the ATF has no business interfering with the right and We The People take this possible infringement extremely seriously. As my public servant I am telling you to not take action on this potential illegal action and we will fight this every step of the way.
From a proud, hardworking, law abiding citizen who believes in the values this country stands for. Thank you for keeping your Oath to the USA.
Sincerely,
Tucker O'Brien Perkins
New Hampshire"
If the SS109 copper jacket weighs +15.5 grains, M855 fits the law.
So SS109 includes a 10-grain penetrator, how much lead is in each round?
---Update---
It almost seems from re-reading the BATFE document that they are saying the steel insert meets definition (i) of AP, "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron,brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium;", which doesn't seem correct given that the "core" of the bullet is mostly lead?
So SS109 includes a 10-grain penetrator, how much lead is in each round?
I cannot agree nor disagree until somebody digs up the actual jacket weight of SS109 projectiles, from a reliable source.
---Update---
It almost seems from re-reading the BATFE document that they are saying the steel insert meets definition (i) of AP, "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron,brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium;", which doesn't seem correct given that the "core" of the bullet is mostly lead?
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Ah, here it is, where do we get one of these containers for a group buy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIiqD1JmqhQ
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After some digging, this page (22) has the break-down on the first post with pictures:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/17...mor_piercing_ammo_including_M855.html&page=22
BLUF: NOTHING has been banned yet, and people are still freaking out. Now that the M855 is gone (and I could care less because XM193 is better IMHO), what will people do next? Dry up all the existing 5.56!
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Still waiting for somebody to weigh lead, penetrator, and jacket separately.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
That's about as good as anything you can find on ammoseek right now.
I passed up on 600rds of M855 for $199.99 at Collectable Arms & Ammo on Wednesday, regretting that for sure. Forget about M855 now, buy M193 before that disappears and/or skyrockets in price due to panic buying. Just bought 500rds of American Eagle M193 for $162 shipped from PSA. Not too shabby.
Check out Palmetto State Armory, free shipping this weekend. Their 20rd boxes are actually the best deal, forget the 420rd ammo can.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
When's the last time a panic made any sense whatsoever? I'm not justifying it, but thinking that a consumer won't settle for M193 when they check their favorite online retailer for some M855 scraps only to realize they missed out would be to ignore past trends. If you need 5.56 ammo, buy it now while the prices aren't inflated.
The proposed M855 ban seems like only the beginning of the end for affordable 5.56 ammo to be had...although it calls out AR pistols having the ability to fire "AP" rounds, if you read the end of the .pdf document, at least IMHO, it leaves the flood gates open for getting rid of ALL "non-sporting" rounds in the future (anything to get rid of the black rifle!!). It is a B.S argument to begin with- M855 is just the first casualty of the affordable 5.56 ammo war. The XM193 panic is brought on as a direct result of the M855 ban..people that didn't get theirs, are now buying up all *AFFORDABLE* 5.56 in a panic of what could or could not come next...
EDIT: Also, M855 is arguably some of the most popular 5.56 ammo (used by your average joe). With it gone, there is a fairly large hole in the pool of available 5.56 range ammo..Hence, you have panic.
Care to elaborate on how Federal law allows BATFE to get rid of "non-sporting" rounds unless the rounds meet one of the two definitions (i or ii) of AP in 18 USC § 921(a)(17)](B)?
No! That is why I said "IMHO." I am explaining my insight on why there is a panic for 5.56 across the board. I do not think I could even elaborate on how a M855 round counts as an AP pistol round- yet, here we are. No warning- the BATF just decided overnight. It is my opinion this is not about the round itself- how many LEOs have been killed by "concealed" AR pistols shooting M855 rounds? I mean, the AP nature of a steel penetrator core is negated by a 10" barrel and XM193 does what it does if not the same, better. I think this is a run at the AR platform..Cant get rid of the gun? Get rid of the ammunition!
Mass-diver
NES Member
The overall ammount of 5.56 ammo available on the market just dropped dramatically overnight. So, there's a run on any 5.56 ammo. Even in a best case senerio, it will takes months to get back to where we were on Friday.
Let's keep in mind that we were still in recovery from the last panic. First, ammo has to become available and then we see prices drop back to normal.
I think if there was zerothreat of government interference, the free market price for M855 (with raw material having gone up in the last five years) would be around 0.20/round, maybe a little less. It was back down to around 0.30 -before this latest gun control strategy was announced.
SteelShooter
NES Member
yea, they just make a new definition, whats to stop them?
Mass-diver
NES Member
Just like in the other panics, you'll see a run on reloading stuff as well. It sucks.
I wouldn't go that far. It's worthwhile just for being referenced in Heller and the language about "in common use". That part probably prevented Heller from only applying to revolvers. There are still plenty of morons who think the 2nd only protects muskets and flintlocks.
Now that Heller has been decided, the two decisions would, hopefully, make another federal AWB much easier to challenge.
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