ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

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Badcat22 said:
You should meet up with the Armslist guy for no other reason than to deliver a firm, open hand slap across his face...
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Since he willing to meet to do the deal I wonder if he is going to care if the buyer has the needed CT ammo certificate or if the Newtown Moms are going to try to get a piece of this for publicity. Can hear it now "Unlicensed seller sells illegal ammo" Blah Blah Blah
 
Why is everyone hating on the price people are charging? Is it their fault you don't have a case in the basement? Is it there fault some retard will likely pay the price they are asking?

No.

I have somewhere around a case of xm855 I am willing to part with. Once someone is willing to trade 3 for 1 xm193 for it, PM me.
 
edmorseiii said:
Why is everyone hating on the price people are charging? Is it their fault you don't have a case in the basement? Is it there fault some retard will likely pay the price they are asking?

No.

I have somewhere around a case of xm855 I am willing to part with. Once someone is willing to trade 3 for 1 xm193 for it, PM me.
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I don't think anyone is "hating" on the neck beards price gouging crappy "armor piercing" ammunition...The whole situation is just entertaining and ridiculous. I love seeing how a can of ammo that cost $169 shipped on Friday night is selling for 3 times that amount because of a proposal that has not even been passed yet... funny tinfoil-hat wearing obama world we live in! See, you are an XM193 guy..you have good taste. Now, sit back and enjoy all those selling their kidneys for a chance to own such a rare and powerful round!!!
 
Badcat22 said:
I don't think anyone is "hating" on the neck beards price gouging crappy "armor piercing" ammunition...The whole situation is just entertaining and ridiculous. I love seeing how a can of ammo that cost $169 shipped on Friday night is selling for 3 times that amount because of a proposal that has not even been passed yet... funny tinfoil-hat wearing obama world we live in! See, you are an XM193 guy..you have good taste. Now, sit back and enjoy all those selling their kidneys for a chance to own such a rare and powerful round!!!
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193 is crap too. lol
 
edmorseiii said:
Why is everyone hating on the price people are charging? Is it their fault you don't have a case in the basement? Is it there fault some retard will likely pay the price they are asking?
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Cause NES, where "price whining" is a national sport around here. [laugh]


-Mike
 
joshk1025 said:
Why is anyone talking about the prices increasing? Price increases in a scenario like this are good and healthy signs of Capitalism at work! The thing to be talking about is only the terrible nature of the ATF, which is creating a panic, not the prices the panic is causing IMHO.
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Well yes and no. When the supply is driven by government regulation that isn't true capitalism, and certainly isn't free market. I understand this is only potential government regulation, but it can only be potential regulation or else it wouldn't be able to be sold at all.

If the panic was caused because companies that manufacturer xm855 put out a release that they were going to stop manufacturing it, that would be different, and I'd totally agree. But that isn't the case in the slightest.
 
Bonesinium said:
Well yes and no. When the supply is driven by government regulation that isn't true capitalism, and certainly isn't free market. I understand this is only potential government regulation, but it can only be potential regulation or else it wouldn't be able to be sold at all.

If the panic was caused because companies that manufacturer xm855 put out a release that they were going to stop manufacturing it, that would be different, and I'd totally agree. But that isn't the case in the slightest.
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Supply and demand works regardless of what constricts the supply. It's not Cheaper than Dirt's fault that the ATF is saying they are going to ban it.
 
joshk1025 said:
Supply and demand works regardless of what constricts the supply. It's not Cheaper than Dirt's fault that the ATF is saying they are going to ban it.
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Of course it does. You said it was "good and healthy signs of Capitalism". Capitalism implies that supply and demand is driven by private companies/individuals, free from government regulation, and not from the state. In this case, the supply may be driven by the state. That is the difference. I'm not blaming anyone who is increasing prices. I totally understand it. I'm just saying it isn't true capitalism.
 
Bonesinium said:
Well yes and no. When the supply is driven by government regulation that isn't true capitalism, and certainly isn't free market. I understand this is only potential government regulation, but it can only be potential regulation or else it wouldn't be able to be sold at all.

If the panic was caused because companies that manufacturer xm855 put out a release that they were going to stop manufacturing it, that would be different, and I'd totally agree. But that isn't the case in the slightest.
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Yup. When government intervention/regulation artificially reduces supply it's a very bad thing and represents the very opposite of how free markets are supposed to work.

This is, of course, their plan - create enough unconstitutional regulations to make ammo so expense that very few people can afford to buy significant amounts. At that point they will try to outlaw manufacturing (reloading).
 
Gander Mountain still has it in stock at $.50 / round shipped. Pricey, and perhaps not worth it to some. But given the recent direction of the ATF I think this is going to happen, even if it is overturned later. Obama doesn't have a reelection to fight, and executive branch actions like this are one way to advance the agenda without legislative will.
 
Mass-diver said:
This is, of course, their plan - create enough unconstitutional regulations to make ammo so expense that very few people can afford to buy significant amounts. At that point they will try to outlaw manufacturing (reloading).
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There is already licensing for ammo manufacturers, you can not manufacture armor piercing shit, you have regulation on powder storage. I can see more restrictions and hurdles placed on reloading.
 
Boris said:
There is already licensing for ammo manufacturers, you can not manufacture armor piercing shit, you have regulation on powder storage. I can see more restrictions and hurdles placed on reloading.
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I think restrictions on reloading are tough as most would have to come at a state level. The Feds (DOT) could probably add some crazy regs for powder transport which could hurt things. Dropping the weight limit on USPS flat rate boxes would probably hurt a bit as well.
 
peterthefish said:
Gander Mountain still has it in stock at $.50 / round shipped. Pricey, and perhaps not worth it to some. But given the recent direction of the ATF I think this is going to happen, even if it is overturned later. Obama doesn't have a reelection to fight, and executive branch actions like this are one way to advance the agenda without legislative will.
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CMP still has it for 55 cents a round shipped. Bulk bag - 300 rds / $165
 
ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

Gillham said:
CMP still has it for 55 cents a round shipped. Bulk bag - 300 rds / $165
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Gander Mountain still has it but up to .54 / round. Thinking of getting some to flip on GB. Looks like some of the smaller 100-120 round lots are getting a premium.
 
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Mass-diver said:
When government intervention/regulation artificially reduces supply it's a very bad thing and represents the very opposite of how free markets are supposed to work.
This is, of course, their plan - create enough unconstitutional regulations to make ammo so expense that very few people can afford to buy significant amounts. At that point they will try to outlaw manufacturing (reloading).
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Except this proposal only impacts one type of ammunition, .223 rounds made with SS109 bullets. SS109/M855 ammo happens to be the cheapest domestic .223 around only because of artificial abundance due to government contract production.
 
Kevin_NH said:
Except this proposal only impacts one type of ammunition, .223 rounds made with SS109 bullets. SS109/M855 ammo happens to be the cheapest domestic .223 around only because of artificial abundance due to government contract production.
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No. Many people think that government/ATF/Obama want to ban all 5.56 ammo (can't ban the gun, ban the ammo), it's this larger threat that is driving the market IMO.
 
Bt74 said:
SOLD OUT...and I wonder if the folks that jumped on it...realize it's Berdan primed????
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1) Probably half the people buying it plan on flipping it anyways.

2) The other half probably doesn't reload, and the half of them that do will pull the bullets for reloading
and dump the brass/powder.

3) Another half look at it as an 'investment', will never shoot it, never planned on shooting it, and it'll sit in their
garage/basement for the next 20 years gathering dust (occasionally dragging it out a few times a year
for sale at gun shows at obscene prices).

4) BECAUSE IT'S M855/SS109 AND IT'LL CUT THROUGH A DHS UPARMORED VEHICLE LIKE A HOT KNIFE
THROUGH BUTTER!!! [banana][banana][banana]
 
What if it's a fake out, the whole point is to prepare Americans for NO CARRIER

Mass-diver said:
No. Many people think that government/ATF/Obama want to ban all 5.56 ammo (can't ban the gun, ban the ammo), it's this larger threat that is driving the market IMO.
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If BATFE and ObamaFu could achieve this without passing a new law, they would have already. I do agree that this phantom threat is what is driving the market.
 
joshk1025 said:
Supply and demand works regardless of what constricts the supply. It's not Cheaper than Dirt's fault that the ATF is saying they are going to ban it.
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Bonesinium said:
Of course it does. You said it was "good and healthy signs of Capitalism". Capitalism implies that supply and demand is driven by private companies/individuals, free from government regulation, and not from the state. In this case, the supply may be driven by the state. That is the difference. I'm not blaming anyone who is increasing prices. I totally understand it. I'm just saying it isn't true capitalism.
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Agreed. And the problem with heavy government influence on markets is that it causes huge unnatural ups and downs with the shifting political winds.

The prices of transferrable machine guns is a prime example.
 
RImike said:
Yesterday when this post was posted, I signed and checked the amount of signatures it had. At 2PM, it had close to 14K, since then it has since doubled.
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Eh. The White House will simply say "We will allow the APA's notice and comment procedures run their course."
 
I got a letter back from Ed. He was kind enough to tell me to F off, but a little nicer. He did imply that I was an extremist though. [thinking]

Dear [righteousbarbarian]:

​
Thank you for contacting me about gun violence and firearm safety. It was good to hear from you.
Every American has a Second Amendment right to bear arms for the purposes of recreation and self-defense. However, I believe we must enact the proper protections to prevent assault weapons from hitting our streets and to keep firearms out of the wrong hands. The safety and security of Massachusetts' schools, neighborhoods and communities is of the utmost importance to me. Washington is lagging behind the rest of the country on gun control reforms. As a Senator, I will continue to fight for universal background checks, a strong assault weapons ban and a prohibition against high capacity ammunition magazines. It's time to get these military-style weapons off of our streets so that these deadly weapons don't fall into the wrong hands.

Last year, I introduced "The Handgun Trigger Safety Act" to ensure that only authorized users can operate handguns. In the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century, we should use advances in technology to our own advantage and save lives. This is the type of gun safety legislation that everyone - regardless of political party or affiliation - should be able to support.
Senseless gun violence kills or injures more than 10,000 children a year and guns kill 30,000 Americans every year. We need to study gun violence like the public health crisis it is. That's why, during the last Congress, I introduced legislation, (S.2373) with my colleague Rep. Carolyn Maloney of New York committing to federal gun violence research. Gun violence research should be a permanent priority so that we no longer look back and say that we didn't commit any resources to a cause of death that took more people last year than leukemia. I plan on introducing similar legislation in the coming weeks.

During the last Congress, I was a co-sponsor of S. 1149, the "Undetectable Firearms Modernization Act," which bans plastic guns fabricated via 3D printers. That ban was reauthorized by Congress and signed in to law by President Obama on December 9, 2013. I plan on supporting similar legislation in the 114[SUP]th[/SUP] Congress.
I also cosponsored a number of bills during the last Congress that I believe represent common-sense solutions that will make our country safer, including S.150, the "Assault Weapons Ban of 2013," S. 22, the "Gun Show Background Check Act of 2013", and S. 54, the "Stop Illegal Trafficking in Firearms Act of 2013." Unfortunately, Congress failed to act on this important legislation.

I am a longstanding leader in efforts to reduce gun violence and I successfully fought for closure of a loophole that was enabling the importation into the United States of large quantities of Chinese assault weapons in the 1990s. As long as I am in the Senate, I will continue to fight for common-sense gun control reforms.
Now is the time to recommit ourselves to ending the plague of gun violence in America. Now is the time to continue growing a movement of activists to finally loosen the stranglehold the NRA and gun lobby extremists have on our country. Together, we can save lives and stop any more of these tragedies before they happen

Thank you again for contacting me about this issue. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. To sign up for my newsletter, visit http://www.markey.senate.gov/newsletter. You can also follow me on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.


Sincerely,


Edward J. Markey
United States Senator
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