ATF Conduct Surprise Inspection at Man’s Home without Warrant VIDEO

Bodhisattva

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i remember buying 3 guns at one time from a shop in massachusetts, maybe around 2015. the shop owner came out and mentioned to me about they would have to fill out a multiple firearm sales form. i understood it was going to that towns pd. meaning the town the shops business license was in. this shop owner wasn't being a shithead about this, i actually took it to mean he was giving me a heads up, and if i didn't want that form generated, to come back on separate days to do the transactions. the shop was so far from my home, i didn't want to have to come back so i told him do it, generate the paper work. just in conversation he said he's never heard of anyone getting questioned over a multiple sale. oh well, that was then.

At the shop I worked at, that was exactly why we told the customer at the instruction of the owner. He absolutely despised the AFT
 

CrackPot

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I was waiting for call or visit when I got 5 (or maybe 4) 1911 frames in one day. My guess is either nobody cared, of the ATF agent reviewing the forms "got it" when he saw serial numbers like "1911", "45acp", etc.
Handguns only. Not rifles or others (frames and receivers). Just handguns cause a multi handgun purchase form to get generated.
 
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Handguns only. Not rifles or others (frames and receivers). Just handguns cause a multi handgun purchase form to get generated.
The dealer I used did fill out the form - I saw it. It may have been before he BATFE added the "Frame and receiver" category to the 4473 (which was apparently done to prevent out of state acquisition of such items)
 

Mark from MA

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Handguns only. Not rifles or others (frames and receivers). Just handguns cause a multi handgun purchase form to get generated.
That was my understanding as well. Handguns only.

I believe in the video, the guy talked about the AFT only looking at one rifle then leaving. So evidently, the long guns must have been on the list too.......

I guess I don't get the point of them even going there if they are going to look at one gun (out of the 7 bought in this case) and leave??
 

Woodsloafer

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I bought 12 or 13 guns in one transaction once, done plenty of transactions with 4 or 5 at a time, I've never gotten a visit. I would have told them to pound sand the minite they said I did nothing illegal, he lost his reasonable suspicion right there.

I have bought multiple guns (including handguns) at once and never had a visit either, and I know other people who have done the same and I have not heard of any ATF visits. I have to believe there is more to the story as to why this guy was flagged and visited. And the commentary in the video that the guy "lives in a nice neighborhood" so he is not likely a person that does straw purchases is asinine, some of the biggest thieves/a**h***s live in "nice" neighborhoods, look at our politicians in DC as an example.
 

Uzi2

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That was my understanding as well. Handguns only.

I believe in the video, the guy talked about the AFT only looking at one rifle then leaving. So evidently, the long guns must have been on the list too.......

I guess I don't get the point of them even going there if they are going to look at one gun (out of the 7 bought in this case) and leave??

I don't get the point of why they insisted on violating the law by going there at all without probable cause and a warrant......as the law requires.

It's pure harassment and intimidation. They could have just as easily called the guy on the phone and asked about them without showing up unexpectedly without a warrant.

If one or all of them took a bullet to the head......who's going to be the one that says "sorry boss, we didn't have any probable cause at all to be there, so we didn't seek or have a warrant to justify our presence, but we decided to fvck with him anyway". Sorry that Joey got whacked in the head and his wife is a widow and his three kids will grow up without their father, oh and you're likely going to lose your job over this, but hey, we checked one out of seven and it was good."
 
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safetyfirst2125

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So if you buy 2 on same day, the FFL fills out a separate form for ATF, right? So what is ATF investigating? I've never had an issue the few times (twice I think) I bought two from an FFL and you go someplace like Shooters Outpost and there are a lot of people buying 2 same day.
I guess that’s one more “registry” I’m on. Bought 4 (or was it 5, or 6?) in one day once.
 

Picton

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First-world problem, but I can't be the only one who scrolls past this thread every time and thinks about my favorite "Warrant VIDEO."



If the feds showed up at my house without a copy of that, I'd be pretty mad too.
 
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From what I've seen lately, auction houses are bunching three or more rifles in a lot. Some auction places have a great quantity of such lots. That must drive the ATF crazy.
 
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I think the most we ever bought at once was 6. Or maybe 9. It was christmas and there are 3 of us (well, 2 now that our son is grown) so we "needed" matching sets. [smile]
 

Prepper

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Just wondering, if someone in this situation has an FFL03 or other license, would this obligate them to get ATF in to see the guns anyway? Or, only for applicable guns (like C&R bought with the license)?
 

Uzi2

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Just wondering, if someone in this situation has an FFL03 or other license, would this obligate them to get ATF in to see the guns anyway? Or, only for applicable guns (like C&R bought with the license)?
No it wouldn't.

Yes, only applicable to C&R guns bought under the 03 license.

You can arrange the time and place for your 03 book/firearms to be examined, it doesn't have to be at your home address, and they don't just show up out of the blue.
 

Dennis in MA

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Come back with a warrant and have a great day!

1. This this and all of this. "Yeah, sorry. I respect that you're trying to get guns off the street. But I've got to hold the line on my constitutional rights. Come back with a warrant and you can inspect the guns. But you have no PC that I did anything at all."

2. The host seems like a tool. "This is not the type of neighborhood you'd find this." I'm sorry, did you just say that??? So only dealers with gold teef and inner-city addresses are guilty of trafficking??? C'mon man. Plenty of GOB's are guilty of selling piles of guns that end up in New Yorrrk Sitty! The ATF's attempt was probably (probably - we don't know what they know) BS, but you're coming across as a racist, dude.
 
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I don't get the point of why they insisted on violating the law by going there at all without probable cause and a warrant......as the law requires.
It is not a violation of law until they actually search without a warrant. That does not mean it is a good idea, however.
 

Uzi2

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It is not a violation of law until they actually search without a warrant. That does not mean it is a good idea, however.
Three armed guys in tac vests, showing up at his doorstep and demanding to see legally purchased guns is not a search?

The search started when they picked this guy's name off of whatever paperwork they were working from.
 

Uzi2

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I think you missed my point. My opinion, or yours, does not count. Only that of a court does and my guess is a court would not consider that a search and, if it was a search, would probably consider it a consent search. But, that is just my guess.

Definiton of "search"
  1. In Law: The examination of a person or property, as by a law enforcement officer, for the purpose of discovering evidence of a crime.

Their illegal "search" started the instant that they selected this guy for examination for which they had no probable cause to do so. Having no probable cause, they did not seek nor obtain a warrant to justify their presence at the man's property.

It was an illegal, intimidation driven fishing expedition.
 
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Mark from MA

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In my opinion the way they rolled up 3 to 1 armed with vests intimidation style. Any answers this guy gave were under duress and should have been thrown out.

And say they did find something that was just lying around... (the other two cops were certainly looking thru the windows and shit, you can see that on video) ....any evidence they found is thrown out because it was obtained from a search that was not consented to. So explain why this procedure would even be worthwhile if said individual was trafficking, since any evidence found would be chucked, nor could be used to get a warrant? What is the end goal? To get laughed at in court?

As much as I'd hate to put a gate at the end of my long driveway and no tresspass signs......these three creeps walking up all over that guys property and inspecting everything in sight is a damn good reason.
 
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Coda

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As much as I'd hate to put a gate at the end of my long driveway and no tresspass signs......these three creeps walking up all over that guys property and inspecting everything in sight is a damn good reason.
I agree that they had no right to be there without a warrant.

But I know of state cops walking around a gate, past No Trespassing signs, with no warrant to question someone about where they were riding an ATV. They determined no laws were broken and they left.

The problem with a gate at the end of your driveway is it discourages some unwanted visitors but does not always stop them.

But one thing it always stops is the UPS guy, the FedEx guy and it also does a great job of slowing down an ambulance or fire truck.
 
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So if you buy 2 on same day, the FFL fills out a separate form for ATF, right? So what is ATF investigating? I've never had an issue the few times (twice I think) I bought two from an FFL and you go someplace like Shooters Outpost and there are a lot of people buying 2 same day.
Not necessarily the same day. I filled out forms for three. Bought two in a week and won one the nest day. Form was filled out and never heard anything.

States will simply enact a one gun a month statute.
 

chris_1001

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Bought multiple pistols before and might again. No visits. I prob don’t tick off enough boxes for a visit.

That said and serious question…

If the atf shows up without a warrant. Knocks on the door asking to talk and I flat out ignore them. Yes, I’m home. Yes, they know I’m home and don’t respond to the knock or doorbell. But just keep watching tv or whatever.

What can they really do?
 

Dadstoys

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Wait, did I miss the part where they shot his wife and burned down his home? This was the ATF right??
You have it backwards.
First they burn the house and then they shoot anyone trying to escape the fire.
Ask Lon Horiuchi , he'll set you straight.
 
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