Army is back at it in Pheonix...Urban Training, Black Helo's

No I've said pretty consistently I have a problem with militarization of police, as well as what the NSA is doing, the patriot act, etc. I'm just telling you guys you are wrong about military training off base, and you can't handle it.

Not everything is part of a vast conspiracy. It's hilarious watching a ton of you who quite obviously know NOTHING about the military act like you know all about how "the conspiracy" works. It must be tough to live such a paranoid life. As I've said, there are MANY problems with our civil liberties in this country, and I don't like the way things are going... However you are dead wrong about the military doing training events for war being some part of a conspiracy, and the bullshit things you makeup to convince yourself of it is somewhat pathetic.

Now your response is that "I have been groomed a bit too much." I'm in the American military, trained on American soil to include off base, and used that training overseas... and I'm just a reservist grunt. Yet somehow SF doing the same ****ing thing means they are conditioning society to seeing the military. That doesn't even make sense. I suppose I'm a secret agent of the government hear to calm you, I know some of you are convinced of that. How about turn off ****ing infowars. If I started a 9/11 inside job thread right now there would be some enormous debate about retarded shit like disappearing planes and controlled demo. Some people on this forum thought the Newton parents were actors. How about you all wake up, the federal government is waaaay too big, taking advantage of their control, and violating civil liberties, but not because they want to control/kill everyone, it's because they want to make themselves look good and stay in power. There is no vast conspiracy, just power hungry politicians.

Mike
 
crazymjb said:
No I've said pretty consistently I have a problem with militarization of police, as well as what the NSA is doing, the patriot act, etc. I'm just telling you guys you are wrong about military training off base, and you can't handle it.
Click to expand...

Your ego is out of control if you think that our opinions about having military units running around US cities are "wrong" because you say so. You seem to be the one who can't handle it.
 
No the ignorance here is just pretty astounding. It is your opinion that the military shouldn't train off base. It's a stupid opinion, but whatever, your entitled to it. It is your BELIEF that they are doing so to condition the public. That is wrong, and you just have your fingers in your ears going La la la la la when someone tries to tell you different.

I'm a pretty humble person, but I'll call luny-tunes when I see it. The slew of PMs I've gotten from people agreeing with me backs that up.

I'm just telling you to relax, you'll live a little longer.

Mike
 
crazymjb said:
No the ignorance here is just pretty astounding. It is your opinion that the military shouldn't train off base. It's a stupid opinion, but whatever. It is your BELIEF that they are doing so to condition the public. That is wrong, and you just have your fingers in your ears going La la la la la when someone tries to tell you different.

I'm a pretty humble person, but I'll call luny-tunes when I see it. The slew of PMs I've gotten from people agreeing with me backs that up.

I'm just telling you to relax, you'll live a little longer.

Mike
Click to expand...

I didn't say anything about them training off base, the objection is to full scale training operations in downtown areas where they're shooting blanks and running around like they're in a warzone. It's your opinion that this is all very important - critical even - I just think that yours is a stupid opinion that shows your ignorance of both history and the world around you. And who are you to say that conditioning allegations are wrong? Do you dispute that the .gov has ever intentionally attempted to condition US citizens en masse?

And do you want me to post the PMs and rep comments of people agreeing with me? The ones that back me up?

I'll relax when I feel like relaxing. You worry about yourself.
 
crazymjb said:
Do you actual believe this shit? Are you actually that crazy?

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

No. I also believe the FDA will not let anything harmfull in our food, OSHA will keep me safe at work and the NSA will prevent islamofascist terrorism by listening in on my phone calls and reading my texts and e-mails.

Maybee if we all wish real hard in one hand Obama will:
obama-make-it-rain-candy-336x283_zps66a26b54.jpg

Meantime, shit in the other hand and tell us which fills up first.
 
And a few follow on questions for you, Mike - does it make a difference to you whether the conditioning is intentional or inadvertent? Are you OK with it as long as it's not the main reason? Do you honestly not have a problem with the military running around our cities and towns getting as much "training" and having as much of a presence as they like as long as the local officials are cool with it?
 
They arent full scale military operations... again. Ignorance. I dont think its conditioning anyone any more than the army blackhawks that fly around all the time.

As Ive said, our government is going down the wrong path, this just isnt an example of it. And yes they have and still are deceptive and use propaganda... but this aint it.

Yes I do think for specialized units the training can save lives, so I'm all for it as long as they get prior consent. These are skills that get used or have a high likelihood of getting used overseas. I would not be ok with law enforcement doing the same.

Mike



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 
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Why would the military need to train over cities, Kabul, Kandahar, Jalabad.. Yes we all have issues with today's government. With the running lights on and the military admitting to training flights I think it is what it is training in an urban area. At the end of the day if you think you can control a city through the use of air power good luck with that. History shows otherwise.
 
crazymjb said:
They arent full scale military operations... again. Ignorance. I dont think its conditioning anyone any more than the army blackhawks that fly around all the time.

As Ive said, our government is going down the wrong path, this just isnt an example of it. And yes they have and still are deceptive and use propaganda... but this aint it.

Yes I do think for specialized units the training can save lives, so I'm all for it as long as they get prior consent. These are skills that get used or have a high likelihood of getting used overseas. I would not be ok with law enforcement doing the same.

Mike



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Parting myself away here back to my original argument/stance. My point is I do not believe these skills are necessary, nor do they need to be used overseas. We simply don't need to have men roving around in small groups through foreign countries. Either there is a need to destroy something or someone who poses an invasion risk to the US or there is not. The former can easily be dealt with through missiles/bombing, the latter means we should MOOFB.

You position seems to be that because we use these skills by deploying people in violation of the constitution, that we should be OK that they train for it.

- - - Updated - - -

goodlife30 said:
Why would the military need to train over cities, Kabul, Kandahar, Jalabad.. Yes we all have issues with today's government. With the running lights on and the military admitting to training flights I think it is what it is training in an urban area. At the end of the day if you think you can control a city through the use of air power good luck with that. History shows otherwise.
Click to expand...

There is no need to "control" a city. War is simply destroying your opponent to the degree that they cannot strike back. That can easily be done with the Air Force and Navy.
 
crazymjb said:
Yes I do think for specialized units the training can save lives, so I'm all for it as long as they get prior consent. These are skills that get used or have a high likelihood of getting used overseas. I would not be ok with law enforcement doing the same.
Click to expand...

I get it, my point is that I don't care if the training can save a life or two, or even a hundred lives. To me the cost is too high. There's a reason why the founding fathers had such a problem with standing armies.

James Madison said:
In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
Click to expand...
 
xtry51 said:
Parting myself away here back to my original argument/stance. My point is I do not believe these skills are necessary, nor do they need to be used overseas. We simply don't need to have men roving around in small groups through foreign countries. Either there is a need to destroy something or someone who poses an invasion risk to the US or there is not. The former can easily be dealt with through missiles/bombing, the latter means we should MOOFB.

You position seems to be that because we use these skills by deploying people in violation of the constitution, that we should be OK that they train for it.

- - - Updated - - -

You do not believing these skills are not necessary?? I can see you were never in a helo in Baghdad or Kabul. You might want to think about that statement. We own the night brother hence the night flying during low light. These are not division sized exercises but squad based hence the small groups. I don't know what information you are reading about our overseas mission but you might want to check your sources.

There is no need to "control" a city. War is simply destroying your opponent to the degree that they cannot strike back. That can easily be done with the Air Force and Navy.
Click to expand...

Another fallacy. No city was ever controlled without boots on the ground. Berlin, fallujah, hue, and so on. Yes so leaving a city alone where an insurgency can fester and grow is a recipe for disaster. Ask the Germans how that worked out for them in eastern Russia.

I really don't get you points. Honestly history tells a very different tale than what your are presenting here.
 
goodlife30 said:
Another fallacy. No city was ever controlled without boots on the ground. Berlin, fallujah, hue, and so on. Yes so leaving a city alone where an insurgency can fester and grow is a recipe for disaster. Ask the Germans how that worked out for them in eastern Russia.

I really don't get you points. Honestly history tells a very different tale than what your are presenting here.
Click to expand...

That's the rub, the .mil needs to be occupiers and aggressors for this training to have merit. Urban occupation serves no purpose in a defense.

I know Phoenix isn't Wrentham or anything, but it surely doesn't simulate DerpDurkastan
 
crazymjb said:
No I've said pretty consistently I have a problem with militarization of police, as well as what the NSA is doing, the patriot act, etc. I'm just telling you guys you are wrong about military training off base, and you can't handle it.

Not everything is part of a vast conspiracy. It's hilarious watching a ton of you who quite obviously know NOTHING about the military act like you know all about how "the conspiracy" works. It must be tough to live such a paranoid life. As I've said, there are MANY problems with our civil liberties in this country, and I don't like the way things are going... However you are dead wrong about the military doing training events for war being some part of a conspiracy, and the bullshit things you makeup to convince yourself of it is somewhat pathetic.

Now your response is that "I have been groomed a bit too much." I'm in the American military, trained on American soil to include off base, and used that training overseas... and I'm just a reservist grunt. Yet somehow SF doing the same ****ing thing means they are conditioning society to seeing the military. That doesn't even make sense. I suppose I'm a secret agent of the government hear to calm you, I know some of you are convinced of that. How about turn off ****ing infowars. If I started a 9/11 inside job thread right now there would be some enormous debate about retarded shit like disappearing planes and controlled demo. Some people on this forum thought the Newton parents were actors. How about you all wake up, the federal government is waaaay too big, taking advantage of their control, and violating civil liberties, but not because they want to control/kill everyone, it's because they want to make themselves look good and stay in power. There is no vast conspiracy, just power hungry politicians.

Mike
Click to expand...
Well said
 
maybe its just all for the ease of transition to the blue helmets? I have no smiley's to click onto so im a little wink wink nudge nudge here?
 
Yup they're training to take over US cities ... Oh wait the cities are already filled with Socialist Obama Supporting Leaches ... So why the **** would they need to capture the cities ... There goes that theory.

If you believe all that info wars bullshit, YOU ARE A MOONBAT.
 
Also everyone seems to have this picture of cities in Afghanistan / Iraq as being like a cluster of 8 mud huts with a camel tied out front. Guess what, they build with concrete too, and shocker, even have buildings with more than a couple stories. I spent a year in Kandahar, I'll bet there are parts of Phoenix pretty close.
 
Rader said:
Also everyone seems to have this picture of cities in Afghanistan / Iraq as being like a cluster of 8 mud huts with a camel tied out front. Guess what, they build with concrete too, and shocker, even have buildings with more than a couple stories. I spent a year in Kandahar, I'll bet there are parts of Phoenix pretty close.
Click to expand...

So what?
 
goodlife30 said:
Another fallacy. No city was ever controlled without boots on the ground. Berlin, fallujah, hue, and so on. Yes so leaving a city alone where an insurgency can fester and grow is a recipe for disaster. Ask the Germans how that worked out for them in eastern Russia.

I really don't get you points. Honestly history tells a very different tale than what your are presenting here.
Click to expand...

What part of "stop trying to control cities because you can't" did you not understand from my argument? We're not an empire and should not act like one. We don't need boots on the ground in large urban areas overseas. If a city has military or industrial significance that poses a threat that would lead to them attacking US soil again (this of course is AFTER they have already tried once and we have formally declared war in step with constitutional requirements) then you level those targets with no worries or limitation on "collateral damage". If that means carpet bombing it with MOABs to get our point across, then that's what we do.

The Germans tried to occupy Russia and conquer it. I don't want our military occupying any country period. I want to go in, level the place and go home. We've proven we can do that. Where our leaders **** it all up is keeping troops as occupying forces. There is no reason to do this. All it does is create insurgents and retaliation.
 
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xtry51 said:
What part of "stop trying to control cities because you can't" did you not understand from my argument? We're not an empire and should not act like one. We don't need boots on the ground in large urban areas overseas. If a city has military or industrial significance that poses a threat that would lead to them attacking US soil again (this of course is AFTER they have already tried once and we have formally declared war in step with constitutional requirements) then you level those targets with no worries or limitation on "collateral damage". If that means carpet bombing it with MOABs to get our point across, then that's what we do.

The Germans tried to occupy Russia and conquer it. I don't want our military occupying any country period. I want to go in, level the place and go home. We've proven we can do that. Where our leaders **** it all up is keeping troops as occupying forces. There is no reason to do this. All it does is create insurgents and retaliation.
Click to expand...

I am glad you are not in charge of our military operations overseas. You went from no need for urban training for helos overseas to leveling cities with no regards to cultural significance. You want to create am insurgency bomb Mecca or level Mount Fuji in Japan and get back to me. If you think you can bomb a nation into submission you are wrong. History shows time and time again this is not the case. Even Japan which we nuked was occupied. Same with cities.
 
goodlife30 said:
I am glad you are not in charge of our military operations overseas. You went from no need for urban training for helos overseas to leveling cities with no regards to cultural significance. You want to create am insurgency bomb Mecca or level Mount Fuji in Japan and get back to me. If you think you can bomb a nation into submission you are wrong. History shows time and time again this is not the case. Even Japan which we nuked was occupied.
Click to expand...

Japan surrendered if I recall without an invasion. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

Who is talking about bombing Mecca? I'm not aware of any terrorists or nations who attack the US hiding in Mecca.

On top of that I'm pretty sure we also firebombed Tokyo. So what is that you were talking about again?

Nowhere did I say we need to specifically target historical monuments. However, if you invade the US and build a tank factory next to one, yes you should expect both to get leveled. Are you saying you wouldn't support bombing of strategic targets just because they were built next to something of significance?
 
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xtry51 said:
Japan surrendered if I recall without an invasion. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...

Really? So I guess they had no standing army when we showed up? Yes because the battleship Missouri was really just a pleasure craft. Seems if like the 7th fleet sails in you are invaded and occupied. Just saying
 

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