Are Appleseeds Dead?

[dwarven1]

Where is the nearest Appleseed held which goes out to an actual 600 yards?

Don't know about the schedule this year (moving, opening a gun shop, getting re-married... all take their toll on time. But next year we hope to be back at Jericho VT at the Ethan Allen Firing Range again.

I would like to see a "post-graduate" appleseed with it's main focus on the AR platform.

There's been a lot of discussion about this point. Some of us do want to see a "Appleseed 2.0" weekend.

Does anyone have a Winterseed patch?

I know four guys who earned one before they existed. https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5688.msg53419#msg53419

Some clubs (e.g. Leyden) have the facilities to shoot at 1-200 yards, where a .22 will teach you a lot about drop and wind, and the Leyden shoots always include shooting KD for anyone who's grouping acceptably (<8 MOA) at 25M. Harvard's longer-ranges are restricted to qualified club members.

Leyden is a great place to go for an AS - for starters, you can try to see if you'd get into Morgan's Rifles - hit an 8" target (pumpkins in season, IIRC) with your FIRST shot at 250 yards. I know that it CAN be done with a Lee-Enfield.

If there are a bunch of people interested, let me know and I'll see if I can put something together. There are enough AS instructors around who know their way around ARs, and there's probably enough material to adapt into a practical 1-Day.

Let Alix & I know - Nickle, too - we'd be interested in helping out.

 

[dcmdon]

One other reason appleseeds are at 25 meters is that it allows the course to run faster. People are walking back and forth 50 yards rather than 200 or 400 yards to change targets.

Don

 

[headednorth]

If there are a bunch of people interested, let me know and I'll see if I can put something together. There are enough AS instructors around who know their way around ARs, and there's probably enough material to adapt into a practical 1-Day.

In

 

[Coyote33]

I was thinking about these again. It would be nice if there were one in Central MA some time in the Fall.

That said, maybe this should be moved over to here:

Forum: Appleseed Rifle Training

 

[lupis42]

I was thinking about these again. It would be nice if there were one in Central MA some time in the Fall.

That said, maybe this should be moved over to here:

Forum: Appleseed Rifle Training

Leyden's got one Sept 13-14, and another the first weekend in November.

Let Alix & I know - Nickle, too - we'd be interested in helping out.

Will do.

 

[exo]

One other reason appleseeds are at 25 meters is that it allows the course to run faster. People are walking back and forth 50 yards rather than 200 or 400 yards to change targets.

Don

Truth. At the Dalton, NH KD appleseed, we shot in squads of 3 and of course it's stage-by-stage. It took somewhere around 10 minutes to shoot (nobody ever seems to take the full 5 minutes on stage 4) but 30 minutes to tape and score the targets.

 

[hbennett]

Appleseeds are certainly not dead! New October Dates have been added.. Many thanks to our friends at New England Shooters Warehouse!!

New England Shooters Warehouse is giving away 2 tickets to Appleseed, go to the NESW Facebook page to enter: https://www.facebook.com/NewEnglandShootersWarehouse

New Dates!!

Harvard Oct 11-12
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/harvard-ma-appleseed-october-11-12-2014-tickets-12603572625

Harvard Oct 18 YOUTH ONLY
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/harvard...-18-2014-youth-only-event-tickets-12603612745

 

[JackOfAllTrades]

Thanks for the additional dates.

I have someone interested in going, but we might have a shortage of rifles. Is it possible to arrange to borrow one if we can't otherwise obtain one?

 

[rogues]

I'm looking at the 11th, but what does "Youth under 18 years of age w/ID Ticket" mean with regards to kids? It reads like they need an ID but that can't be the case. I have two 11 year olds with 10/22s that'll hopefully be coming.

Also, not to go too far off course on this thread, but if we're going to stay in the area for the weekend at a motel, is there a way to store the guns at a club? When I was reading before, most of the hotels in the area weren't gun friendly and it's going to be interesting sneaking 3 10/22s and an AR in 22 into a hotel.

 

[jefftk]

I'm looking at the 11th, but what does "Youth under 18 years of age w/ID Ticket" mean with regards to kids? It reads like they need an ID but that can't be the case. I have two 11 year olds with 10/22s that'll hopefully be coming.

Also, not to go too far off course on this thread, but if we're going to stay in the area for the weekend at a motel, is there a way to store the guns at a club? When I was reading before, most of the hotels in the area weren't gun friendly and it's going to be interesting sneaking 3 10/22s and an AR in 22 into a hotel.

Couldn't you keep them in your vehicle?
Most hotels have side entrances so you don't have to go through the main lobby....

 

[lupis42]

Thanks for the additional dates.

I have someone interested in going, but we might have a shortage of rifles. Is it possible to arrange to borrow one if we can't otherwise obtain one?

Yes, and most instructors have a couple loaners as long as you let us know early. Shoot an email to [email protected] and let us know what you need, we'll get you sorted.

I'm looking at the 11th, but what does "Youth under 18 years of age w/ID Ticket" mean with regards to kids? It reads like they need an ID but that can't be the case. I have two 11 year olds with 10/22s that'll hopefully be coming.

As long as they're pre-registered as youth, that covers it.

Also, not to go too far off course on this thread, but if we're going to stay in the area for the weekend at a motel, is there a way to store the guns at a club? When I was reading before, most of the hotels in the area weren't gun friendly and it's going to be interesting sneaking 3 10/22s and an AR in 22 into a hotel.

The club isn't really equipped for that, but also bear in mind that you'll likely want to do a little cleaning overnight. FWIW, the only hotel chain I know of that has an actual policy on the matter is Hilton, so as long as you avoid them, it shouldn't be too much of a big deal.

 

[dcmdon]

I don't know what you mean by most of the hotels aren't gun friendly.

How would that subject even come up? Good, god, you didn't ask them did you??

I've traveled with long guns more times than i can count. I bring the guns into my room and nobody knows any better. My cases are clearly gun cases and I've stayed at large corporate inner city Hotels with large fancy lobbies and never had anyone even look at me funny.

Just bring the cases to your room and thats it.

 

[JayMcB]

I don't know what you mean by most of the hotels aren't gun friendly.

How would that subject even come up? Good, god, you didn't ask them did you??

I've traveled with long guns more times than i can count. I bring the guns into my room and nobody knows any better. My cases are clearly gun cases and I've stayed at large corporate inner city Hotels with large fancy lobbies and never had anyone even look at me funny.

Just bring the cases to your room and thats it.

THIS.

Walk in like you aren't doing anything wrong....because you aren't doing anything wrong. Between days 1 and 2, CLP and a .22 boresnake are your friend

 

[hbennett]

Between days 1 and 2, CLP and a .22 boresnake are your friend

Very true..as Harvard can sometimes be hot and dusty..or wet and muddy... When I get home after day 1, my rifle gets a quick tear-down, as a 10/22 is wicked easy to field strip..
The bore gets swabbed out with Hoppes, and a couple of dry patches, the bolt and operating handdle gets a wipe-down, the inside of the receiver gets a quick cleaning,
trigger group, wiped down, everythinig lightly lubed, re-assembled and function checked, a final wipe-down, re-cased and ready to go for day 2.

It is also recommended that screws (sights, scopes, action screws where applicable) are checked for tightness.. I have seen and experienced sights getting lose.. and once on day 2 .. falling off.. yep, happend to me.. no wonder why my groups were getting awful as the day progressed.. loctite is also your friend..

Also, plenty of water, Ibuprofin..for those that need it..and a good night's rest are also in order..

 

[dcmdon]

I've found that my 10/22s can get a bit sluggish later in the day. The crap from hundreds of rounds of dirty .22 gets between the receiver and the bolt and adds friction. Combine that with a dirty chamber and you have a recipe for some small problems later in the day.

I've found that a bore snake and a few drops of oil into the bolt/receiver interface works well. If I have time, I'll lock the bolt back, spray some clp, put my finger in a rag and wipe it all away with the rag, you get a lot of carbon that way. Then I'll oil it again.

The only problem with a bore snake is that its sometimes difficult to use one within the very strict safety protocols at an appleseed.

Don

 

[exo]

If you start out with a clean, lubricated rifle... you probably* won't need to clean and lube it again during the course of the day. At night after you get home or wherever you're staying? Probably a good idea.

My first appleseed we shot, approximately, 1200 rounds. My rifle was cleaned and lubed before we began, and I cleaned and lubed it in the evening after day 1. Never had a stoppage.

*Unless your springs are very, very old and tired, at which point I could see more difficulty overcoming action fouling. But at that point those springs should be replaced.

 

[dcmdon]

I don't know if the fact that I use primarily CCI Std Vel for appleseeds has anything to do with it.

 

[exo]

I don't know if the fact that I use primarily CCI Std Vel for appleseeds has anything to do with it.

Not sure, that weekend I was using federal high velocity. Round count was similar my second appleseed, but I was using federal bulk (the ~500 count boxes, not the automatch).

Round counts at appleseed are way, way down now given the ammo crisis. If you can find one box of 500 you're probably set for the weekend. If I was doing an appleseed as a shooter with the low round count, I probably wouldn't bother cleaning between days.

 

[dcmdon]

I didn't realize they were using less ammo these days. My last appleseed was at harvard last summer. My wife and I went through probably 500 rounds each in one day. (In which she made rifleman and was asked to become an instructor in training)

Don

 

[dwarven1]

Couldn't you keep them in your vehicle?

Have to have them in a locked container (trunk counts) if they do.

It is also recommended that screws (sights, scopes, action screws where applicable) are checked for tightness..

If you see your group sizes growing for no understandable reason, check your action screw. If it's not the sights or the shooter, it's that one screw.

 

[exo]

I didn't realize they were using less ammo these days. My last appleseed was at harvard last summer. My wife and I went through probably 500 rounds each in one day. (In which she made rifleman and was asked to become an instructor in training)

Don

With .22LR being made out of unobtanium (unless you're either willing to hunt for ammo each and every day, or pay absurd prices) things have slowed down. I'm surprised you went through that much.

 

[jefftk]

If I was doing an appleseed as a shooter with the low round count, I probably wouldn't bother cleaning between days.

At Harvard the shooting takes place in dirt pits. Getting sand in your receiver is more of an issue than ammo fouling IMO. I would usually wipe out the inside of receiver with a patch a couple times during the day.

 

[sweed]

I missed the last one at Pelham. I want to go to the next one in November, per the online schedule. I definitely need help with those small targets/ long ranges.

 

[exo]

At Harvard the shooting takes place in dirt pits. Getting sand in your receiver is more of an issue than ammo fouling IMO. I would usually wipe out the inside of receiver with a patch a couple times during the day.

Interesting, I've never made it out to Harvard. So you're saying I've been spoiled shooting on grass at Leyden?

 

[dwarven1]

Oh, yes. But there are fewer bugs at Harvard.

 

[dcmdon]

With .22LR being made out of unobtanium (unless you're either willing to hunt for ammo each and every day, or pay absurd prices) things have slowed down. I'm surprised you went through that much.

You forgot to mention a 3rd option. That you keep a multi-year supply of .22 on hand. Or you saw the writing on the wall immediately after Sandy Hook and stocked up. Remember, the .22 shortage started in earnest AFTER the other ammo shortage.

Don

 

[hbennett]

At Harvard the shooting takes place in dirt pits. Getting sand in your receiver is more of an issue than ammo fouling IMO. I would usually wipe out the inside of receiver with a patch a couple times during the day.

For those raised in more urban areas.. "in dirt pits" refers to the fact that the range looks like a gravel pit.. The event is NOT held in a hole in the ground filled with dirt..

It is recommended that attendees bring a small tarp.. similar to the kind found in the camping section of walmart.. along with a camping sleeping pad (the cheap blue foam kind ) found in the same department.. or a reasonable facsimilie ... or a shooting mat.. These go a LONG way keeping the shooter more comfortable and the gear cleaner..

As mentioned before, .22 ammo is not know for being the cleanest shooting stuff. 300-400+ rounds on day 1 will get the rifle action a bit grubby, and the 500-700 fired on Day2 definitely will.. and yeah, there can be dust.. or rain..meh, no biggie..

However, all that ammo, along with 2 days worth of training, coaching, and drills WILL make the shooter much more knowledgable about his or her equipment, what works, and what doesn't. We see it all the time.. Fancy may be fun... but K.I.S.S. gets it done...

 

[exo]

You forgot to mention a 3rd option. That you keep a multi-year supply of .22 on hand. Or you saw the writing on the wall immediately after Sandy Hook and stocked up. Remember, the .22 shortage started in earnest AFTER the other ammo shortage.

Don

I guess I mean the "you" as in "youse guys", as in I'm surprised even last summer that an Appleseed was being run going through that much ammo in a day.

 

[lupis42]

Interesting, I've never made it out to Harvard. So you're saying I've been spoiled shooting on grass at Leyden?

Your rifle certainly has.

The sand/gravel at Harvard isn't that bad, but on dry days, a lot of dust goes into the air, and it gets into places no rifle wants dust. On days which are not dry, it's mud instead of dust.

 

[lupis42]

I guess I mean the "you" as in "youse guys", as in I'm surprised even last summer that an Appleseed was being run going through that much ammo in a day.

Of late, we've been essentially asking folks every morning - as often as not, most folks have had enough to put in a hard days work, and sometimes we've even come by a little extra for those who need it.
If I had to guess, I'd wager that plinking has taken a serious hit to, while learning and practicing remain worth spending the ammo on. I just hope nobody's skipping shoots because they don't think it's worth going unless they have 800 rounds to burn.