Arbitrary lines... NH guy with "arsenal" arrested in Lawrence

[slap shot]

He'd a been safe with a nice Liz Warren stickah

 

[Bodhisattva]

He'd a been safe with a nice Liz Warren stickah

or a Bernie or Hillary sticker.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Well...if not in compliance with asinine storage or licensure laws they can be probable indicators of a crime in progress which is in and of itself related to licensure and storage.

You forget this is the law. I am not saying it is a good law or that I support it, but not obeying it is a crime and the actions of the passenger rose to the level of reasonable suspicion. This is not the world of shoulds and oughts, it's the world of the way it is. Accept it or reject it, it's not going to change.

Exactly! He made the shit sandwich, now he's gotta take a big ole bite.....

 

[clampett]

Can someone tell me, when pulled over in Mass or NH, and the police ask you if you have any weapons, are you obligated to answer that question?

 

[boatman]

I would also like to know that answer. Previous posts on here say yes and no. Does someone have the real answer.

 

[Miamivice]

He had probable cause, there was a gun sticker on the car [sad2]

Unfortunately the stickers led to questions of the clueless girlfriend, which led to the switchblade in the car, which is still a "per se" felony in MA. This created the probable cause to search the entire car.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[MisterHappy]

Unfortunately the stickers led to questions of the clueless girlfriend, which led to the switchblade in the car, which is still a "per se" felony in MA. This created the probable cause to search the entire car.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

That's assuming that it's a real switchblade, and not a spring-assist. Sometimes, the irrelevant details are forgotten, in the quest for a good story. Or probable cause.

 

[Infinite Jester]

That's assuming that it's a real switchblade, and not a spring-assist. Sometimes, the irrelevant details are forgotten, in the quest for a good story. Or probable cause.

You're not a real NH transplant like me till you've bought yourself a real Italian made switchblade just because you could.
I always had the "comb" switchblades as a kid, but always wanted the genuine article. Quoted West Side Story lines with it for a day and annoyed the wife. Now it sits in my nightstand drawer collecting dust.

 

[MaverickNH]

There is nothing the either state law that I know of, That mandates disclosure.

All I know is that I will take my chances and say no. If the cop asks, "Do you mind if I look?" The answer will be, "Yes, I do mind if you look, and since you asking permission, I am not giving it". Then stand by for the shit show.

You: "Thanks, I appreciate the offer, but no, you don't have to take a look"

Cop: "What?"

You: "I know you must be busy today, so no thanks, you don't have to take a look"

Confuses the heck out of them...

 

[whatluck]

I don't consent to searches. I don't answer questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?

 

[Miamivice]

Check out the below text from MGL 269.10b. Technically in MA your spring assisted opening knives are no good. Also the limit on blade length is 1.5 inches (never seen that enforced ever). But the highlight is at the bottom, if your charged with disorderly conduct and are armed with "any other" weapon it becomes a felony. That one gets used quite regularly.



(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[whatluck]

The 1.5 inch restriction only applies to knives with 'automatic spring release'

 

[Radtekk]

I think if you actually comply with the gun laws of the states you are driving in, you can safely have whatever stickers you want.

I can, and will, put whatever stickers on my vehicle I choose. Whether I comply with other laws or not isn't relevant to how I decorate my truck or exercise my right to free speech.

Gadsden flag stickers are just as bad, and they're bright yellow. You can't miss them. I must see a dozen on the way to work every day. As much as I appreciate the symbolism, I am not putting that or any other sticker on my car.

I don't have a little "pu$$y" Gadsden Flag sticker on my truck. My truck IS a Gadsden Flag

WOW...do you not have a problem with "stickers" being used as a reason to search your car? Bend over, my friend. I'm sure you will comply when they tell you to turn in your guns. Reminds me of the aholes standing in line in CT to register them, and the Jews standing in lines to get on the trains.

Stickers are stickers, not probable cause. I won't be getting on any trains.

 

[SpeedOften]

Based on the first part of the title of this thread, "Arbitrary lines..." Does that mean that the OP believes that there are no such thing as state borders and individually defined states, that all regulation, law and authority should come from a central government?

This was covered already.

Not to mention holy assumptions batman.

 

[Radtekk]

This was covered already.

So?

 

[SpeedOften]

So?

 

[garandman]

The only mistake I see that this guy made was going to Komiechusetts in the first place. The whole state for the most part is a cesspool of progressive gun grabbing nazis who are driven by power panic and fear.

The guy was bringing his GF home. If she'd kept her mouth shut nothing would have happened. She is 42 and he is 31, that's unusual.

He should date a good NH woman: one who provides shade in summer and warmth in winter.

This was covered already.

Not to mention holy assumptions batman.

He used to work for the government, he should know.

 

[GPP]

DISCLAIMER: Not taking any sides in this specific case.

The stickers do not create probable cause, but they do create reasonable suspicion. The same as if you had drug related stickers on your vehicle (Think marijuana leafs or some variation). Combine the out of state plates, stickers and items hanging from the rear view mirror would cause a reasonable officer to look further. Hence finding the plastic firearm box, which does create probable cause.

Better judgement should have been exercised by Burgos. It's no secret MA is anti gun.

Are you seriously saying that the stickers on his car created reasonable suspicion?

 

[GPP]

Unfortunately the stickers led to questions of the clueless girlfriend, which led to the switchblade in the car, which is still a "per se" felony in MA. This created the probable cause to search the entire car.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Reread the article, and then read (possibly reread post #69).

 

[42!]

Right or wrong they've got him for the firearms. If he has a clean record he may get by with a CWOF, avoiding becoming PP. He'd be OK in most of the country but he'd need to be careful if he moved to MA, some towns will deny as unsuitable based on a CWOF.

I'll say it first. Why the F would he move to MA?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Len-2A Training]

Check out the below text from MGL 269.10b. Technically in MA your spring assisted opening knives are no good. Also the limit on blade length is 1.5 inches (never seen that enforced ever). But the highlight is at the bottom, if your charged with disorderly conduct and are armed with "any other" weapon it becomes a felony. That one gets used quite regularly.

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.

Please tell us what YOUR definition is an "automatic spring release device"?

To me (and most here) pushing a raised lever on my Kershaw "spring assisted" knife does not meet the requirement for an "automatic" device. Yes, I know that a LEO determined to make an arrest and a DA determined to add a notch to his belt for a conviction can make your life miserable and perhaps even succeed in a conviction, but it certainly is not what the law intended.

I can, and will, put whatever stickers on my vehicle I choose. Whether I comply with other laws or not isn't relevant to how I decorate my truck or exercise my right to free speech.

Stickers are stickers, not probable cause. I won't be getting on any trains.

True, but the LEO is also free to raise a discussion based on the stickers he sees on a vehicle. Where it goes from there can be unpredictable.

Are you seriously saying that the stickers on his car created reasonable suspicion?

No, but you can certainly inquire about them.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Are you seriously saying that the stickers on his car created reasonable suspicion?

Reasonable suspicion that there may be firearms located within the vehicle or on his/her person. Yes.

Turn the map around. If your driving down the road, stop at a light. The car in front of you has an HK sticker on the rear glass. You, being a reasonable person make the assumption that 1. The operator/owner of the vehicle is a gun owner and owns/likes HK firearms. So, you have reasonable suspicion about his ownership/possession of an HK firearm......

 

[GPP]

Reasonable suspicion that there may be firearms located within the vehicle or on his/her person. Yes.

Turn the map around. If your driving down the road, stop at a light. The car in front of you has an HK sticker on the rear glass. You, being a reasonable person make the assumption that 1. The operator/owner of the vehicle is a gun owner and owns/likes HK firearms. So, you have reasonable suspicion about his ownership/possession of an HK firearm......

Exercising your 1A right thru spoken or written word does not amount to reasonable suspicion. I believe the word you are looking for is "hunch". It falls before RS on the list.

 

[Bodhisattva]

No matter what way I explain it, you're not going to agree with. So I'm not going to continue. You simply choose not agree with it because you don't like it. Kinda like how Anti 2A types are. They don't like it so they don't agree with it and try to articulate it their way. Doesn't make you a bad guy, I'm just done with it.

 

[MachineHead]

Reasonable suspicion that there may be firearms located within the vehicle or on his/her person. Yes.

Turn the map around. If your driving down the road, stop at a light. The car in front of you has an HK sticker on the rear glass. You, being a reasonable person make the assumption that 1. The operator/owner of the vehicle is a gun owner and owns/likes HK firearms. So, you have reasonable suspicion about his ownership/possession of an HK firearm......

It's just as easy to suspect that someone "pranked" the car at the red light while it was parked from wherever it came from and placed a sticker on it. Unlikely, but not entirely unreasonable. I'm not a cop, but I'd think keeping mute when asked about your stickers would be smart.

 

[Bodhisattva]

And telling your dumb beaver of a girlfriend to keep her cock holster shut!

 

[Nickle]

The only mistake I see that this guy made was going to Komiechusetts in the first place. The whole state for the most part is a cesspool of progressive gun grabbing nazis who are driven by power panic and fear.

Before I go into NY state, I make sure we have no handguns(or rifle illegal in NY, or illegal mags) in the car. Before we go into Mass, we meticulously clean the car to make sure there's no brass laying around, or anything that could be possibly conceived as illegal.

If we don't do this, we simply do NOT enter the other state. It just isn't worth the trouble of defending the conduct later. If passing through NY on our way to another free state, we simply make sure anything illegal in NY is cased, locked and preferably in the trunk (I usually drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee, no trunk).

Everyone says this but nobody can find me case law in MA to prove it. It's usually the "likes shitting on MA law by making up imaginary stuff to make it worse than it actually is" club.... lol

-Mike

Mass I don't know of. NY is whole different story. They've even ignored FOPA '86 protection in NYC and Albany in the past. If you want links, try digging around Google or the NRA's website.

Well...if not in compliance with asinine storage or licensure laws they can be probable indicators of a crime in progress which is in and of itself related to licensure and storage.

You forget this is the law. I am not saying it is a good law or that I support it, but not obeying it is a crime and the actions of the passenger rose to the level of reasonable suspicion. This is not the world of shoulds and oughts, it's the world of the way it is. Accept it or reject it, it's not going to change.

That can't be repeated enough.

The guy is Fkd because he took his guns into the den of wussies. His fault and his fault alone. Know the law and the law in this case is stay the f out of MA with your guns

Also pretty good advice.

There is nothing the either state law that I know of, That mandates disclosure.

All I know is that I will take my chances and say no. If the cop asks, "Do you mind if I look?" The answer will be, "Yes, I do mind if you look, and since you asking permission, I am not giving it". Then stand by for the shit show.

I make them get a warrant. Oh, they may very well get one, if they have just cause, or go to a biased judge, or openly lie to the judge.

It sure won't be pretty, but I tend to make them jump through the hoops. It's much harder to contest a consensual search than a search with a warrant. And, yes, I tell them just that. Sadly, it really irritates the dirtbags, though the better ones tend to understand. But, the better ones don't search in the first place.

And telling your dumb beaver of a girlfriend to keep her cock holster shut!

His mistake to have an idiot for a girlfriend in the fist place. She might be a looker, but she's dumber than a bag of hammers. Better to have a girlfriend that's a little chunky but smarter.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Do not expect the rules of criminal procedure to be properly applied at the district court level.

I know of one case where the search warrant for a car on school property had a serious flaw. When the case went to court the judge said "I don't want to hear any arguments about the warrant". So, the subject was given a choice between a multi-year CWOF or going to trial and risking lifetime PP status.

 

[Spanz]

group buy on Hillary Clinton and PETA bumper stickers, and fuzzy dice for the mirror???

 

[Spanz]

laziness? IF he had the gun locks on the guns, AND said he was passing thru the state, then he would have a valid FOPA defense.