Arbitrary lines... NH guy with "arsenal" arrested in Lawrence

JWPaolilliJr said:
Everything that was a firearm or Ammo should have been the trunk, and if that had been the case the only thing the cop should have been told is that they had run out of gas and her boyfriend was walking to the gas station to get gas and would be right back.

She talked to much.
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But even then, the weapons being "in the trunk" ment that they weren't a danger to anyone so there was no reason to open it to look at them.
So if I see someone "non resident" and I'm 'not sure if they are legal' (or 'not sure' if someone is violating any law) that is PC to start a search?
I am 'not sure' if everyone attending the hemp fest in Boston has legal licence.. So I guess they can break into any car there.... Just in case...
 
JWPaolilliJr said:
Everything that was a firearm or Ammo should have been the trunk, and if that had been the case the only thing the cop should have been told is that they had run out of gas and her boyfriend was walking to the gas station to get gas and would be right back. She talked to much.
Click to expand...

Joe is correct on all points.

Now you can talk about "profiling" all you want, and rant all you want. If you want to help start a defense fund or a Go Fund Me Page. Now let's talk reality: for years a gun decal, or NRA Sticker is an invitation to greater scrutiny by certain elements of LE and it is also an invitation to bad guys that maybe there is a gun stored in an unattended vehicle.

Rants are not going to change the status quo. Just like concealed means concealed, why call attention to yourself that you are a gun owner? It's not about fear so much as keeping a low profile under the radar. Hanging an inert grenade from a rear view mirror is a sure fire attention getter. Oh you have your right to do that, but in an age of "see something, say something" how prudent is that? I'm not defending the police, but that's the reality of where we are at in 2016. Maybe in another part of the country a different outcome with regard to ending (no arrest) but there was enough there and enough stupid on the part of the GF to generate police inquiry in virtually any jurisdiction in the several states, maybe not by every cop, but my many. It really pays not to advertise.

An NES sticker is probably nebulous enough not to attract attention, but a "cold dead hands" or an NRA sticker is sure to pique interest especially combined with out of state plates. I see plenty of NRA stickers but they are usually on pick up trucks and are local. They blend in with the North Central Worcester Co environment. Same pick up with same sticker at 3am on I84 near Port Jarvis, NY is probably going to attract the attention of the NYSP. To quote the late Walter Cronkite: "that's the way it is" let this poor unfortunate soul's tragic tale be a cautionary one for us all, and a reminder too, to explain to spouses, GF's, significant others to keep their GD Pie Holes shut with regard to talking to the police.
 
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Burgos must be a complete idiot. FOPA _would_ only have protected him if
a) he was passing through MA from NH to a third state,
b) he had stored all the firearms properly, with guns locked up out of reach of the driver and ammo stored separately, and
c) the police did not choose to ignore federal law.

Due to "c" I do not ever cross the border with firearms or even spent brass. If I thought I could get an unrestricted MA LTC, I would get one for legal cover.
 
I think if you actually comply with the gun laws of the states you are driving in, you can safely have whatever stickers you want.
 
mark056 said:
Joe is correct on all points.

Now you can talk about "profiling" all you want, and rant all you want. If you want to help start a defense fund or a Go Fund Me Page. Now let's talk reality: for years a gun decal, or NRA Sticker is an invitation to greater scrutiny by certain elements of LE and it is also an invitation to bad guys that maybe there is a gun stored in an unattended vehicle.

Rants are not going to change the status quo. Just like concealed means concealed, why call attention to yourself that you are a gun owner? It's not about fear so much as keeping a low profile under the radar. Hanging an inert grenade from a rear view mirror is a sure fire attention getter. Oh you have your right to do that, but in an age of "see something, say something" how prudent is that? I'm not defending the police, but that's the reality of where we are at in 2016. Maybe in another part of the country a different outcome with regard to ending (no arrest) but there was enough there and enough stupid on the part of the GF to generate police inquiry in virtually any jurisdiction in the several states, maybe not by every cop, but my many. It really pays not to advertise.

An NES sticker is probably nebulous enough not to attract attention, but a "cold dead hands" or an NRA sticker is sure to pique interest especially combined with out of state plates. I see plenty of NRA stickers but they are usually on pick up trucks and are local. They blend in with the North Central Worcester Co environment. Same pick up with same sticker at 3am on I84 near Port Jarvis, NY is probably going to attract the attention of the NYSP. To quote the late Walter Cronkite: "that's the way it is" let this poor unfortunate soul's tragic tale be a cautionary one for us all, and a reminder too, to explain to spouses, GF's, significant others to keep their GD Pie Holes shut with regard to talking to the police.
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Gadsden flag stickers are just as bad, and they're bright yellow. You can't miss them. I must see a dozen on the way to work every day. As much as I appreciate the symbolism, I am not putting that or any other sticker on my car.
 
mark056 said:
Joe is correct on all points.

Now you can talk about "profiling" all you want, and rant all you want. If you want to help start a defense fund or a Go Fund Me Page. Now let's talk reality: for years a gun decal, or NRA Sticker is an invitation to greater scrutiny by certain elements of LE and it is also an invitation to bad guys that maybe there is a gun stored in an unattended vehicle.

Rants are not going to change the status quo. Just like concealed means concealed, why call attention to yourself that you are a gun owner? It's not about fear so much as keeping a low profile under the radar. Hanging an inert grenade from a rear view mirror is a sure fire attention getter. Oh you have your right to do that, but in an age of "see something, say something" how prudent is that? I'm not defending the police, but that's the reality of where we are at in 2016. Maybe in another part of the country a different outcome with regard to ending (no arrest) but there was enough there and enough stupid on the part of the GF to generate police inquiry in virtually any jurisdiction in the several states, maybe not by every cop, but my many. It really pays not to advertise.

An NES sticker is probably nebulous enough not to attract attention, but a "cold dead hands" or an NRA sticker is sure to pique interest especially combined with out of state plates. I see plenty of NRA stickers but they are usually on pick up trucks and are local. They blend in with the North Central Worcester Co environment. Same pick up with same sticker at 3am on I84 near Port Jarvis, NY is probably going to attract the attention of the NYSP. To quote the late Walter Cronkite: "that's the way it is" let this poor unfortunate soul's tragic tale be a cautionary one for us all, and a reminder too, to explain to spouses, GF's, significant others to keep their GD Pie Holes shut with regard to talking to the police.
Click to expand...
Don't go getting logical mark, remember where you are posting.

Well said by the way [smile]
 
Suppressor said:
I think if you actually comply with the gun laws of the states you are driving in, you can safely have whatever stickers you want.
Click to expand...

That's if the police chose to recognize the law. If the storage of his firearms met the safe passage provision of FOPA guidelines and his destination wasn't in MA he still probably would have been charged.
 
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KBCraig said:
They are the very definition of arbitrary: "Hey, we need to pick a dividing line between this government and that government. Why don't we just draw a line on a map, then figure out the details later?"
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Yeah I'm not buying it. First, look at fences on property lines. People put up fences to intentionally separate themselves. Originally they were designed to prevent livestock from wandering onto the wrong person's land, however these days its an intentional barrier from one property to another. Chain link fence, barbed wire, stone fence, hedges, they all serve the same purpose - they're barriers to entry to the property.

People have different governments because people think differently. Take RI and Mass and NH for instance. Both Portsmouth, NH and Providence, RI are about 50, 55 miles from Boston. Kind of a small area, right? The Mass Bay Colony was founded by the Puritans so they could be free of England. RI was founded as a place for people seeking refuge from Mass and NH was founded to make money for the proprietors.

All three states are run on a similar yet slightly different basis. RI is the poorest of the three. Mass is the richest. Always been like that since the 1630s. The seeds of all three states were planted around the same time, the 1620s to the 1640s. They were all founded by people from England and they were all Christians for the most part, except for Jews in Newport, Indians and non-believers.

The border of RI and Mass was settled for the most part in 1747 but changes were made in the 19th Century. The NH and Mass border was settled also before the Revolution however both states disagreed over who controlled Vermont and NY was also involved. Vermont is a great example of borders in action.

The people in all three states, NH, RI and Mass, all think differently, all eat differently and all act differently. In NH, it's possible to open carry in places like Keene and other medium sized cities without an issue according to members on here. Open carrying in Woonsocket or Fall River would be... interesting I'm willing to bet.

All three states' borders were settled as reflections of what was already happening on the ground. People from RI took over the towns of Bristol, Barrington and Warren, Mass and those three towns became Bristol County, RI. Same thing with what is now Cumberland, Woonsocket, Lincoln, CF, etc.

Now Vermont is a great example. Legally, it belonged to New York. But New Englanders like Ethan Allen bought New Hampshire land titles and borders were drawn after people moved in to reflect realistic changes on the ground.

Borders are fences for large groups of people.
 
Suppressor said:
I think if you actually comply with the gun laws of the states you are driving in, you can safely have whatever stickers you want.
Click to expand...

WOW...do you not have a problem with "stickers" being used as a reason to search your car? Bend over, my friend. I'm sure you will comply when they tell you to turn in your guns. Reminds me of the aholes standing in line in CT to register them, and the Jews standing in lines to get on the trains.
 
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I think I've only been in MA three times in the past 3ish years and even that was too much. The guy might as well steal a gun and go on a rampage when he gets out on bail because no matter how this shakes out he'll likely be a PP and bankrupt.
 
jamesvt said:
His first mistake was running out of gas. His second and most costly mistake was admitting his destination was in MA and not just passing through the state.
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Sorry guys.. running out of gas is not "passing through the state" as far the the federal FOPA law is concerned.
 
jamesvt said:
That's if the police chose to recognize the law. If the storage of his firearms met the safe passage provision of FOPA guidelines and his destination wasn't in MA he still probably would have been charged.
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Everyone says this but nobody can find me case law in MA to prove it. It's usually the "likes shitting on MA law by making up imaginary stuff to make it worse than it actually is" club.... lol

-Mike
 
Burgos was also in possession of seven unused gun locks, according Padellaro's report.
[/QUOTE]
and he didn't have a license for these either, I betcha! btw, what happens if you have 7 gun locks but only 3 guns? do you get in trouble for "unused locks"? perhaps you should drive immediately to your nearest LGS and fill them up!
 
NHAtHeart said:
I think I've only been in MA three times in the past 3ish years and even that was too much. The guy might as well steal a gun and go on a rampage when he gets out on bail because no matter how this shakes out he'll likely be a PP and bankrupt.
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The really twisted part is if he had a little heroin on him as well they would simply let him go to rehab, put him on probation and drop the gun charges as he turns his life around.
 
drgrant said:
Everyone says this but nobody can find me case law in MA to prove it. It's usually the "likes shitting on MA law by making up imaginary stuff to make it worse than it actually is" club.... lol

-Mike
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to write he would have been charged, but he possibly would have been arrested. I was thinking arrested but wrote charged for some reason.
 
DISCLAIMER: Not taking any sides in this specific case.

The stickers do not create probable cause, but they do create reasonable suspicion. The same as if you had drug related stickers on your vehicle (Think marijuana leafs or some variation). Combine the out of state plates, stickers and items hanging from the rear view mirror would cause a reasonable officer to look further. Hence finding the plastic firearm box, which does create probable cause.

Better judgement should have been exercised by Burgos. It's no secret MA is anti gun.
 
Bodhisattva said:
DISCLAIMER: Not taking any sides in this specific case.

The stickers do not create probable cause, but they do create reasonable suspicion. The same as if you had drug related stickers on your vehicle (Think marijuana leafs or some variation). Combine the out of state plates, stickers and items hanging from the rear view mirror would cause a reasonable officer to look further. Hence finding the plastic firearm box, which does create probable cause.

Better judgement should have been exercised by Burgos. It's no secret MA is anti gun.
Click to expand...

The presence of firearms are not indications of a crime in progress.
 
dennism said:
The presence of firearms are not indications of a crime in progress.
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Well...if not in compliance with asinine storage or licensure laws they can be probable indicators of a crime in progress which is in and of itself related to licensure and storage.

You forget this is the law. I am not saying it is a good law or that I support it, but not obeying it is a crime and the actions of the passenger rose to the level of reasonable suspicion. This is not the world of shoulds and oughts, it's the world of the way it is. Accept it or reject it, it's not going to change.
 

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