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Anvil Arms

A search of bothe the BATFE, ARF.com, M4C, WR.com and gunsnet, yeilds no such reversal....An M-16 BCG is still GTG, or Colt, Noveske, LMT, etc would not be risking their business to ship them in every single M4 they sell to the civilian population...
 
MassMark said:
Mike - looks nice! If you need help with it, I'm at DSG from 9a-2p tomorrow. Give me a call and I can take a look at it...Make sure you have your rear pin facing the correct way.
Click to expand...

Mark, thanks again. I am not sure what you mean by facing the right way. It has a groove running down it and that is currently facing the rear. Then I have the detent going into that with the spring behind that. FWIW, I had a hard time getting the rear pin in before I used the detent/spring. It goes through the lower fine and the upper fine, but not when you put them together.


Palladin said:
[laugh2]
Ironic, but you could have had a kid in less time! [thinking]
Click to expand...

Well, I am glad that I waited longer for a rifle.
 
derek said:
I thought I was in the twilight zone there for a minute. BCG does absolutely nothing in regards to a rifle firing faster than semi. [thinking]

That's like saying the firing pin in a 16 can't be used in a 15. [thinking]
Click to expand...

IIRC, isn't the only difference that there's a little more metal on the 16 bolt so that it's a little bit stronger and lowers the cylic rate in automatic fire?
 
MassMark said:
A search of bothe the BATFE, ARF.com, M4C, WR.com and gunsnet, yeilds no such reversal....An M-16 BCG is still GTG, or Colt, Noveske, LMT, etc would not be risking their business to ship them in every single M4 they sell to the civilian population...
Click to expand...

Let me root around and see if I can find it. I tend to be a pack rat about those things. The letter you posted was clearly dated after the post I referenced though, so you are correct.

It might take a day or two.

B
 
derek said:
I thought I was in the twilight zone there for a minute. BCG does absolutely nothing in regards to a rifle firing faster than semi. [thinking]

That's like saying the firing pin in a 16 can't be used in a 15. [thinking]
Click to expand...

Yes that's true. However if you take a semi auto BC and try and use it in an M-16 it wont shoot automatically. The semi carrier has a tail that trips the auto sear.

On the firing pin issue, I think at one time ATF position was that any of the M-16 parts were verboten.

B

ar15carrierspc7.jpg
 
Absolutely wrong...
Click to expand...
I both agree and disagree with you at the same time :). I said "interesting to the BATFE", not "illegal". There is clearly nothing illegal having an M16 carrier in a semi-auto AR. That being said, if something causes the gun to come to the attention of the gov't, any full auto parts will make it more "interesting" to them. Remember the case where the feds got the conviction for the gun doing a malfunction double? I can't say with certainty, but the presence of some, but not all, full auto parts; a history of selling full auto plans at guns shows, and of suing the police probably made him a more interesting target than a random person with a regular AR. Me, I prefer to remain uninteresting.

Custom serial number
Click to expand...
(regarding BATFE variance)

I don't believe the BATFE requires a variance for customer numbers. All numbers must be in a format acceptable to the agency (for example, serial numbers without at least one digit are no longer acceptable) and records made in the approved manner.

The BATFE requires a variance for computerized record keeping. They also require a variance if a manufacturer is going to have a sub-contractor manufacture the receiver and have their name and city, rather than that of the subcontractor that did the actual manufacturing, engraved or stamped on the receiver.

You also need a variance to relocate an existing serial number - for example, if you wish to gunsmithing to a handgun frame that would destroy all or part of the original number.

If anyone has verifiable information that the BATFE requires a variance for custom numbers, please let me know so I can update my knowlege.
 
Ok here is the stuff I found. I thought it was going to take longer than it did but this is where I got the information from a year ago.

ATF National Firearms Act Handbook ATF E-Publication 5320.8 June 2007

You can download the entire publication from the above link. Quote is from Appendix B. Rulings and ATF Articles. P132.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES
​
ATF has encountered various AR-15 type rifles such as those manufactured by Colt, E.A. Company, SGW, Sendra and others which have been assembled with fire control components designed for use in M16 machine guns.

The vast majority of these rifles which have been assembled with an M16 bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector will fire automatically merely by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector. Many of these rifles using less than the 5 M16 parts listed above will also shoot automatically by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector.

Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA). In addition, the definition of machine gun also includes any combination of parts from which a machine gun may be assembled, if such parts are in possession or under the control of a person. An AR- 15 type assault rifle which fires more than one shot by a single function o the trigger is a machine gun under the NFA. Any machine gun is subject to the NFA and the possession of an unregistered machine gun could the possessor to criminal prosecution.

Additionally, these rifles could pose a safety hazard in that they may fire automatically without the user being aware that the weapon will fire more than 1 shot with a single pull of the trigger.

[emphasis mine]
In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16, hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.

It is important to note that any modification of the M16 parts should be attempted by fully qualifiedpersonnel only.

Should you have any questions concerning AR-15 type rifles with M16 parts, please contact your
nearest ATF office. Our telephone numbers are listed in the “United States Government” section of your telephone directory under the “United States Department of Justice.”
Section 1.03
Click to expand...

B
 
bpm990d said:
Ok here is the stuff I found. I thought it was going to take longer than it did but this is where I got the information from a year ago.

ATF National Firearms Act Handbook ATF E-Publication 5320.8 June 2007

You can download the entire publication from the above link. Quote is from Appendix B. Rulings and ATF Articles. P132.



B
Click to expand...

Notice the date - there have been updates, as in the letter I referenced for 2008.The addition of an M-16 BCG to an AR-15 receiver has as much effect on full-auto fire, as the addition of an m-16 barrel - absolutely zero. The BCG is part of the upper receiver and is not part of the fire control group. In a trillion years, the BCG could have zero effect on tripping anything, unless the user had modified the FCG with M-16 parts...On an AR-15 carrier, material is removed from the bolt and the firing pin trips the hammer - the M-16 carrier is different only in that the bolt material trips the hammer. On a full sized AR-15, with a full gas system, the extra weight of the BCG is less critical. On a short gas system like the M4, the M-16 carrier is seen and still used by major manufacturers like Colt as a reliability enhancement for all civilian M4-carbines - bar none. Colt would not risk millions in annual sales of civilian semi automatic M4's over a technicality...This has been well researched and debated by those with far more knowledge than us.
 
vellnueve said:
Olofson wasn't a double, it emptied the magazine.
Click to expand...

Where did it say this? According to the things I've read, the Olofson gun fired a few rounds and then would jam, when the selector was in the "unmarked" position. Of course, who knows if the BATFE lab thugs got it to do a mag dump (eg, by farting around with the ammo used, to get ammo with nice soft primers and the like... )

-Mike
 
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MassMark said:
Notice the date - there have been updates, as in the letter I referenced for 2008.The addition of an M-16 BCG to an AR-15 receiver has as much effect on full-auto fire, as the addition of an m-16 barrel - absolutely zero. The BCG is part of the upper receiver and is not part of the fire control group. In a trillion years, the BCG could have zero effect on tripping anything, unless the user had modified the FCG with M-16 parts...On an AR-15 carrier, material is removed from the bolt and the firing pin trips the hammer - the M-16 carrier is different only in that the bolt material trips the hammer. On a full sized AR-15, with a full gas system, the extra weight of the BCG is less critical. On a short gas system like the M4, the M-16 carrier is seen and still used by major manufacturers like Colt as a reliability enhancement for all civilian M4-carbines - bar none. Colt would not risk millions in annual sales of civilian semi automatic M4's over a technicality...This has been well researched and debated by those with far more knowledge than us.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand this.

The reason I posted it was to show that the ATF flip flops back and forth.

Please note my post #157. where I said

..... Based on the date of that letter you posted, it appears fine as long as there has not been any flip flops - published or not.

However I would not use a FA carrier based on the BS that ATF has pulled with their interpretations.
Click to expand...

B
 
HAHA guys...lets start another thread. This thread hijack was all because I had a "WTB" in my signature. Lets not clutter up the AA thread. I want people to be able to search it in the future if they are looking to buy from him and see what he is about...not what the ATF is saying.
 
MichaelJ said:
HAHA guys...lets start another thread. This thread hijack was all because I had a "WTB" in my signature. Lets not clutter up the AA thread. I want people to be able to search it in the future if they are looking to buy from him and see what he is about...not what the ATF is saying.
Click to expand...

Correct. My apologies.

B
 
I am the OP and I am still waiting.

It appears that (based upon a thread on AR15 forum that is tracking November orders) AA has not shipped any lowers to people who ordered in early November at what they call the "discount price" for over 2 months!

Despite AA's claim that they are shipping stricly based upon when the order was placed, this is BS because they have rec'd many lowers and shipped many lowers during this time frame.

Again piecing things together from what other people are saying- AA told someone that they need to use lowers for current gun builds instead of shipping stripped lowers where they don't make much money.

Emily at AA in an email a few days ago said that my November order would be shipped from the next batch they receive which would be 6-8 weeks !

I reminded her that she told me the same thing when I just missed the December batch? But she didn't reply to that last email.
 
A friend of mine just ordered an upper and it was shipped within a few days. He told me that he ordered it from M&A.

I would look them up and check them out.

Although I am still waiting for my stripped lowers from AA. I ordered 3 lowers from Essential Arms on 1-29-09 and they shipped them within 4 business days
$100- anodized finish.
$105- tough coat over anodized.

Lowers and LPK's are great and I have already built and put through a range test.
 
szaino said:
A friend of mine just ordered an upper and it was shipped within a few days. He told me that he ordered it from M&A.

I would look them up and check them out.

Although I am still waiting for my stripped lowers from AA. I ordered 3 lowers from Essential Arms on 1-29-09 and they shipped them within 4 business days
$100- anodized finish.
$105- tough coat over anodized.

Lowers and LPK's are great and I have already built and put through a range test.
Click to expand...

I've heard nothing but good things about essential arms. I'm hoping to put an order in myself in the near future to stock up on some lowers.
 

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