Another AG sting

traveler57

traveler57

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For those of you who thought that the AG was doing great things for Massachusetts.

http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=986&id=1666

And for those of you that thought that the sting operations of the AG's office don't happen, think again. And, yes, stun guns are ILLEGAL in PRM. But my point is that the stings are still going on.

For this IMPORTANT reason, please never publicly post the name of a dealer or out-of-state source for anything on this forum. Use email or PM only. Do you really want to be the one that gives Tom his next project???
 
These lawsuits stem from an undercover sting into the sales of stun guns through the eBay auction site in based in San Jose, California.
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No maybe some of you will understand eBay's policies on sales of Gun Stuff. They aren't gun people, but, have damn sure been hurt by crap like this deal.

Screw Herr AG of Mass. May he rot in Hell for his sins.
 
As a result of AG Reilly's investigation, and eBay's cooperation, the auction site is now implementing more extensive warnings to sellers and buyers of stun guns, and will void auctions where the seller is in Massachusetts.
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I didn't know that it was against MA law to have a company that sells them to people OUTSIDE of MA.

Can everyone say, "Knee Jerk?"
 
But, it doesn't end there...

"AG REILLY STOPS THREE ONLINE ALCOHOL RETAILERS FROM SELLING TO UNDERAGE BUYERS
December 20, 2004
CONTACT: SARAH NATHAN
(617) 727-2543

BOSTON - Three out-of-state alcohol retailers accused of selling alcohol to underage buyers - area college students who participated in undercover stings - will no longer accept illegal orders from Massachusetts consumers, including minors, under the terms of three separate consent judgments, Attorney General Tom Reilly announced today."

Snip...

"These cases are part of a series of enforcement actions brought by AG Reilly's Consumer Protection and Antitrust Division targeting the illegal sale of dangerous products on the Internet. AG Reilly has brought cases against businesses selling cigarettes, ammunition, weapons and fireworks over the Internet".

http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=986&id=1350

..................

So, basically by Reillys reasoning, out-of-state vendors must operate in compliance with MA law in order to conduct business here... meaning be "licensed" or have a "store front" here.

Doesn't every business operating (no matter what it is, or how big or how small), in MA have to have a license of some sort?

For example... in order to sell food items in MA, doesn't a business need a victualers license? Why isn't Reilly going after Omaha Steaks (certainly there's health considerations involved)?

What about any other consumer product that requires a "store front" or licensing in MA?

Think Reilly exhibits a certain bias or is afraid of creating an unpopular backlash if he went after certain activities/buisness operations that don't appeal to the knee-jerk "think of the children" mentality?
 
What is really a shame is that the AG is using consumer safety as an excuse to infringe the 2nd ammendment rights. I think there is a benefit to having some level of consumer protection against unsafe weapons, but the laws are clearly setting standards that are so strict that they are in effect restricting the the consumer choice. Perhaps some class action suit could be filed about that. Interference with interstate trade is supposed to be a big no-no I thought.
 
hey guys, not so hard on him... he says it's for the children... it must be a good thing, right? [/sarcasm]

The republicans put up a candidate for AG at the convention (what a long day!) a couple of weeks ago, a guy named Larry Frisoli.http://www.lawyers.com/frisolilaw/AboutUs.jsp. He gave a great speach, but now I can't find anything about his campaign!?!?

Matt
 
Last edited by a moderator:
He's a long-time member of GOAL, NRA and Woburn Sportsmen Association. I don't see any web presence yet, but he did send out his phone number: 617-354-2220.

Ken
 
Ok, I think I'm gonna take it on the chin here... but. The article states: "Attorney General Tom Reilly today sued three Internet dealers accused of selling stun guns, a high voltage weapon prohibited in Massachusetts."

Are you guys freaking out because the AG has made these illegal in MA or because he's going after these 3 companies?

Maybe I'm not as right wing as I thought but if they ARE illegal then the 3 companies screwed up IMO. Please enlighten me as I'm not so sure I'd want teenagers having unlimited access to these either.

Disclaimer: I dont know what these stun guns can do nor have I used them.
 
There is a law that makes possession of stun guns a felony in MA by ANYONE other than certified (to carry them) municipal/state LEOs. No college POs can carry them, etc.

This law went into effect in the mid-1980s and was broadcast over LEAPS to all PDs (at that time, NO LEOs in MA could use them). Recent law allows only some PDs to issue them under very limited and controlled circumstances. Most PDs aren't qualified to issue them and the paperwork is onerous to meet the law's requirements.
 
LN, the problem is that the AG is going after everything. Read the other thread . . . there is no law against purchase of airsoft/airguns in MA, but he's making it up as he goes.
 
To help, yes, my original point was that Rielly was going after someone via a STING. (Remember the stories of the sting on Sportsman's Guide and many other legitimate ammo sellers???) But, I knew some would get the wrong message because this one was for illegal stun guns. Sorry about that.

And I was just pointing out that if any forum members are getting fully legal product from somewhere out-of-state, please don't post it here. I have seen posts of names before by uniformed, "helpful" people, and Len and Derek have been pretty quick on stopping them. So thanks guys!
 
LenS said:
LN, the problem is that the AG is going after everything. Read the other thread . . . there is no law against purchase of airsoft/airguns in MA, but he's making it up as he goes.
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Understood. Believe me I'm no friend of our AG. I don't recall reading all the responses from the recent airsoft/airguns post- but I thought vendors were selling these to kids under 18 (which is illegal in MA correct?). I also fundamentally have an issue will bb guns that look identical to "real" guns... but that might just be me. On a separate note I have a break barrel pellet gun that shoots a pellet about 1000 ft/sec.. they are no toy for teenagers IMO, regardless of laws.
 
Airsoft guns all have orange barrel end, velocity of plastic balls (no metal BBs/pellets) is ~100-350fps typically.

PDs don't typically use them for training. Some high-end (~$200+) Airsoft guns are suitable for training, not the junk that is typically sold mail-order/in stores for $20-50.

AGs ruling means nobody who is 50 yr old will be able to buy them either!

Yes, "gangstas" and "cool kids" (stupid) do paint the barrel ends black to look real, but that is a different issue than outlawing them because some abuse them.
 
derek said:
What a joke. I feel like I live in China. [angry]
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You do..... didn't you know that Cambridge really is Beijing?

With all the communists walking around this state, its hard to
tell the difference.

Chairman Mao would be proud of MA.

-Mike
 
Lugnut said:
Understood. Believe me I'm no friend of our AG. I don't recall reading all the responses from the recent airsoft/airguns post- but I thought vendors were selling these to kids under 18 (which is illegal in MA correct?). I also fundamentally have an issue will bb guns that look identical to "real" guns... but that might just be me. On a separate note I have a break barrel pellet gun that shoots a pellet about 1000 ft/sec.. they are no toy for teenagers IMO, regardless of laws.
Click to expand...
Under the concept of "FOB shipping point", the sale and title transfer for the merchandise takes place at the location where the vendor delivers the merchandise to a common carrier.

Although the "which is illegal in MA" is correct, these sales did not take place in MA. The problem is the MA courts would be very likely to look at the outcome they desire and then fit the logic to generat that outcome, rather than look at the law first and see what outcome it generates.

It's too bad no company is willing to take the AG on in regards to this issue, as there is a chance a good precedent could be set - although it may require bringing some sort of action in federal court.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Under the concept of "FOB shipping point", the sale and title transfer for the merchandise takes place at the location where the vendor delivers the merchandise to a common carrier.

Although the "which is illegal in MA" is correct, these sales did not take place in MA. The problem is the MA courts would be very likely to look at the outcome they desire and then fit the logic to generat that outcome, rather than look at the law first and see what outcome it generates.

It's too bad no company is willing to take the AG on in regards to this issue, as there is a chance a good precedent could be set - although it may require bringing some sort of action in federal court.
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We've already had the court case and the precedent, only with regard to sales taxes. About 20 years ago, the state tried to force Cuomo's (Salem, NH) to collect and submit sales tax on its sales to Mass residents. Cuomo's was doing enough business (and, more importantly, had a pair) so they took it all the way to the SJC, where they won. Of course, that decision wasn't specifically about guns, so the gun-hating bigots on the court undoubtedly would rule differently in this instance.

Ken
 
The NRA has written off MA politics, however, this is one case where they could bring a legal action - hopefully federal.

When SCOTUS ruled that a foreign conviction fo a crime with > 1 year improsonment did not trigger a lifetime disability in the US (something that had, until then, been accepted as a given) the court comments on some of the absurdities such an interpretation would result in - for example, a lifetime gun ownership ban because someone was convicted of speaking out in favor of democratic elections.

The AG's position that a mail order sale from an out of state vendor takes place in MA would mean that:

- All MA laws regarding gift certificate terms and conditions, return policies, etc. would be binding on the vendor. Ditto for any other business regulations.

- Thre are certain holidays in MA where it is illegal for a store to remain open, with a few exceptions (pharmacies, gas stations, convenience stores, etc.). Out of state vendors would have to comply with such laws if they are indeed making sales "within Massachusetts".

The NRA did a pretty decentjob with the Katrina gun confiscations. It's time for them to get to work on the MA AG.
 
LenS said:
Yes, "gangstas" and "cool kids" (stupid) do paint the barrel ends black to look real, but that is a different issue than outlawing them because some abuse them.
Click to expand...


A few in my collection, including my latest Tokyo Marui M733, came with both orange and black flash suppressors.
 
Coyote33 said:
Then GOAL needs to get them back. Isn't GOAL supposed to be the MA branch of the NRA?
Click to expand...

Yes and No!

You haven't been paying much attention to what GOAL HAS BEEN DOING LATELY, I see!

Spend some time reading what they are doing on the www.goal.org website, check out the Legislation headings. Ask them if YOU can help them make it better for all of us, rather than just bitching about it here, which won't help change anything!
 

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