-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
alcohol and firearms laws?
- Thread starter robfreitas
- Start date
MisterHappy
NES Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 28,454
- Likes
- 17,672
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
How are you going to defend yourself if your gun is in the safe?
While you're taking preventative measures, do you also lock your d!ck up in the safe with your gun? Ya know, so you don't rape anyone.
I won't carry when going to a club or anyplace I am going to have a good time drinking, out to eat having a beer I don't see anything wrong with that, at home when I am drinking all the ammo is locked up in my safe, like any big boy I like my brew and like to play with my toys be it knives or guns.
Tim![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Tim
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
dcmdon
NES Member
Show me where the law says concealed?
Back to the OP's original point, and since this is not the MA law forum, I'll weigh in on CT.
CT prohibits the carrying of a LOADED firearm if your BAC is above .1%
So at .08 to .09, you are too drunk to drive, but sober enough to carry. Hmm
This also means that if you are not planning to go out, but find yourself in a social situation, you can unload, and continue to carry. I'm not saying its smart, just legal.
If you are a responsible person, that means you can unload the gun, stow it in your trunk and if it comes to light that you have the gun with you, you are clean.
Don
So the FAA alcohol regs for pilots is .04, 8 hours or "under the influence", which is there catchall if they want to hang you. I suspect MA would think similarly. Technically a bad hangover could be argued to be under the influence but this state is going to try and hang you regardless if you shoot someone. Don't sweat the small stuff but drink responsibly when carrying and enjoy life while you can is how I view it.
dcmdon
NES Member
Thats how I treated things in CT. If I found myself wanting a drink while carrying, I'd unload and securely stow the gun in the car. (I've got a locking trunk with no access from inside, and also a small gun vault in the trunk, so its pretty secure) Then enjoy my evening.
I'm not so sure if such a common sense approach would fly in MA.
Re flying. I've always thought the 8 hours "bottle to throttle" was a bit soft. There were many mornings when I didn't go flying because of a rough night out the previous night.
I actually didn't know it was .04 for flying. I thought it was .02 or lower.
Don
I'm not so sure if such a common sense approach would fly in MA.
Re flying. I've always thought the 8 hours "bottle to throttle" was a bit soft. There were many mornings when I didn't go flying because of a rough night out the previous night.
I actually didn't know it was .04 for flying. I thought it was .02 or lower.
Don
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,565
- Likes
- 33,631
Since there is no limit in the statute, each trial would also be a finding of fact to determine what is "under the influence". While defense counsel could point to OUI standards, there is no assurance that the court would find such an argument persuasive.'
As a matter of practicality, I would not expect the same standards of evidence (calibrated BAC machine, certified operator, etc.) would be applied. Everyone can relate to the needs to protect a driver - as judges and juries are almost exclusively composed of drivers; not everyone feels the same need to protect the rights of the gun owner.
I also do not expect that case law that makes it all but impossible to convict on an OUI without a BAC would automatically apply to a CUI (carrying under influence) case.
And, to complicate matters further, there is no "implied consent" for carry.
When looking at how the courts would view a CUI case, consider the plaintiff who appealed a LTC revocation after being found NOT GUILTY of OUI. The court held that the revocation would stand since, despite the not guilty finding, "evidence of guilt still exists".
Which is all a way of saying the only safe BAC for legal carry is .00.
As a matter of practicality, I would not expect the same standards of evidence (calibrated BAC machine, certified operator, etc.) would be applied. Everyone can relate to the needs to protect a driver - as judges and juries are almost exclusively composed of drivers; not everyone feels the same need to protect the rights of the gun owner.
I also do not expect that case law that makes it all but impossible to convict on an OUI without a BAC would automatically apply to a CUI (carrying under influence) case.
And, to complicate matters further, there is no "implied consent" for carry.
When looking at how the courts would view a CUI case, consider the plaintiff who appealed a LTC revocation after being found NOT GUILTY of OUI. The court held that the revocation would stand since, despite the not guilty finding, "evidence of guilt still exists".
Which is all a way of saying the only safe BAC for legal carry is .00.
dcmdon
NES Member
And you haven't even touched on the issue of suitability in MA.
If an officer tells the chief that he's sure you were drinking and carrying, even if thats not enough to convict, its more than enough to pull your LTC, at which point you lose all your firearms.
So like you said, 0.00 is the only way to go in MA.
If an officer tells the chief that he's sure you were drinking and carrying, even if thats not enough to convict, its more than enough to pull your LTC, at which point you lose all your firearms.
So like you said, 0.00 is the only way to go in MA.
It's been a while since I looked at it. Maybe they lowered it. The air carriers where even stricter though, 12 hours was the rule and one company used to have people at the hotel watch us. Never drink at the hotel bar
dcmdon
NES Member
Yeah. A friend of mine is now a pilot for Atlas. He's a 747 captain and has been flying freight in and out of the middle east for the last 10 years in support of the "GWOT" Global War on Terror. He said that without flight attendants, he has little motivation to drink late into the evening. It makes it much easier to get up in the morning.
I just got through watching Flight. Their portrayal of a raging alcoholic was pretty spot on. The flight mechanics were pretty flawed. The jack screw doesn't act on the elevator, good god.
Don
I just got through watching Flight. Their portrayal of a raging alcoholic was pretty spot on. The flight mechanics were pretty flawed. The jack screw doesn't act on the elevator, good god.
Don
joeendris
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2011
- Messages
- 4,144
- Likes
- 789
Bold: allowing whoever pulled you over, discretion to pick one way or the other, depending on how they view mere civilians carrying guns... "under the influence" could be the mere fact that you were in proximity of Ted Kennedy's long-gone car, or it could mean you were over the "legal drunk limit" of .08. In some towns, you'd get smacked upside the head, in others, the mere mention of Ted Kennedy's liquor cabinet would get you arrested, if you were carrying. Yet again, another fine example of "hmm, all depends on my mood" law designed to just screw you out of a right, and not actually help you or the public.
For the record, Jon quoted the law from Massachusetts. NH follows the law the same as driving. .08 is the limit...
Don't drive drunk, don't carry drunk. Pretty simple. In Mass, it's better to be paranoid....how pathetically sad
The glue phrase shows you the level of intellect that brought you that great law....
Last edited:
Let me expand your line of reasoning just a little bit in terms of "MA-Think"!
If an officer tells the chief that since you were seen in a bar (or that liquor was on the same table you were sitting at with other people) and were carrying, thus the officer concludes that you MUST have been drinking too . . . it's more than enough to pull your LTC, at which point you lose all your firearms.
This!
Based on experience with a close friend who went thru this, best not to have alcohol w your firearm anywhere near you. Leaving your fate of LTC to the subjective reasoning of someone who might not want you to have an LTC in the first place is worse odds than playing Russian roulette. Likely out even after 1 beer the officer will likely explain, you smelled of alcohol, displayed signs of being under the influence (doesnt have to be intoxicated) some glossy red eyes, what seemed to be some anxiety & fragmentary speach (only from being nervous as crap realizing youre f'd). BOOM your ltc is bye bye and your pets confiscated likley never to be seen again.
Moral of the story is either never have both at the same time or move to an actual free state. My two cents.
Happy Turkey day to all of the NES folks, ill be eating a Tom I harvested this fall up north
Sent from the blind
Heres what you will see when they are done with the committee. Confiscation of a damn 22lr cause it holds more than 5 rounds. ..
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ived-will-likely-send-chills-down-your-spine/
Sent from the blind
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ived-will-likely-send-chills-down-your-spine/
Sent from the blind
gerrycaruso
NES Member
I've asked this question and the answer I got is that you can't legally have ANY alcohol in your system if you're carrying a gun. I realize that if you get stopped, what the officer THINKS will determine the outcome, but that's what I was told.
193rdsoldier
NES Member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,176
- Likes
- 1,142
Haha, that is amazing.
dcmdon
NES Member
Just close one eye.
Having served jury duty on three cases in MA involving OUI, the BAC has never come up in trial. 'Under the influence' is a much lower standard then 'while intoxicated'. For OUI, all they have to do is prove to a jury that your ability to operate was influenced by alcohol such that your ability to drive was impaired in some way compared to what normal would be. In the 3 cases I've sat on, 2 were convicted (the 3rd got off because the cop was a moron).
If you have a beer, is your normal cognitive ability compromised in any way? Be careful because you might need to answer to a judge or jury.
If you have a beer, is your normal cognitive ability compromised in any way? Be careful because you might need to answer to a judge or jury.
Last edited by a moderator:
When in possession of a loaded firearm, drink milk lol, but in all seriousness I either drink water or a soda. Not worth risking anything.....
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
I've had a drink when carrying. But I limit myself to one anyway. Rarely, one leads to two. But I don't drink at bars though. Why spent $8 with tip at a bar when $8 will get you an entire six-pack at Hannaford?
And like others have said, in the event that you actually have to justifiably use your firearm for defense of self/family against an attack, you're going to be interrogated by LE. They'll be wanting to know your BAC, among other things.
Plus, anymore than a drink or two, and I don't know how "situationally aware" one can be.
And like others have said, in the event that you actually have to justifiably use your firearm for defense of self/family against an attack, you're going to be interrogated by LE. They'll be wanting to know your BAC, among other things.
Plus, anymore than a drink or two, and I don't know how "situationally aware" one can be.
Perfect example of why you should not live in MA. Because people like MAShooter will vote guilty on you when you might have had a beer. Stories like this remind me how so many people are sheep and will vote to punish anyone for anything the state tells them to.
What he said.. but don't listen to me I'm still drunk from last night.
