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Abrams Tank Pushed By Congress Despite Army's Protests

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WASHINGTON — Built to dominate the enemy in combat, the Army's hulking Abrams tank is proving equally hard to beat in a budget battle.

Lawmakers from both parties have devoted nearly half a billion dollars in taxpayer money over the past two years to build improved versions of the 70-ton Abrams.

But senior Army officials have said repeatedly, "No thanks."

It's the inverse of the federal budget world these days, in which automatic spending cuts are leaving sought-after pet programs struggling or unpaid altogether. Republicans and Democrats for years have fought so bitterly that lawmaking in Washington ground to a near-halt.

Yet in the case of the Abrams tank, there's a bipartisan push to spend an extra $436 million on a weapon the experts explicitly say is not needed.

"If we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way," Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army's chief of staff, told The Associated Press this past week.

Why are the tank dollars still flowing? Politics.

Keeping the Abrams production line rolling protects businesses and good paying jobs in congressional districts where the tank's many suppliers are located.

If there's a home of the Abrams, it's politically important Ohio. The nation's only tank plant is in Lima. So it's no coincidence that the champions for more tanks are Rep. Jim Jordan and Sen. Rob Portman, two of Capitol's Hill most prominent deficit hawks, as well as Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown. They said their support is rooted in protecting national security, not in pork-barrel politics.
 
Well, I am not a fan of Washington pork, but keeping the ONLY tank production facility in the nation operational might not be a terrible idea...
 
Well, I am not a fan of Washington pork, but keeping the ONLY tank production facility in the nation operational might not be a terrible idea...

Here is the problem as I see it 1) what will you do with all the over stock of tanks 2) 436 Million we don't have!!!! 3) The army said no we don't need them

WE MUST STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE
 
When quoting an article you should only quote a small blurb and post the link to the article. That's the legal way to do it and it's forum policy.

As for Washington politics, I'm shocked.
 
So at the end we will have 436 Million in tanks we don't need 2) 436 Million bill that my grandkids need to pay WE CAN NOT SAY STOP SPENDING ON ONE HAND
AND KEEP SPENDING ON THE OTHER HAND ) stop spending
 
I had thought they stopped making new abrams and were just refurbishing and rebuilding existing stocks
They are not making "new" tanks, but they are re-building them from the ground up, so esssentially they are new tanks in most of the moving parts and electronics
 
They are not making "new" tanks, but they are re-building them from the ground up, so esssentially they are new tanks in most of the moving parts and electronics

The tanks that Congress is requiring the Army to buy aren't brand new. Earlier models are being outfitted with a sophisticated suite of electronics that gives the vehicles better microprocessors, color flat panel displays, a more capable communications system, and other improvements. The upgraded tanks cost about $7.5 million each, according to the Army.

Out of a fleet of nearly 2,400 tanks, roughly two-thirds are the improved versions, which the Army refers to with a moniker that befits their heft: the M1A2SEPv2, and service officials said they have plenty of them. "The Army is on record saying we do not require any additional M1A2s," Davis Welch, deputy director of the Army budget office, said this month.
 
The tanks that Congress is requiring the Army to buy aren't brand new. Earlier models are being outfitted with a sophisticated suite of electronics that gives the vehicles better microprocessors, color flat panel displays, a more capable communications system, and other improvements. The upgraded tanks cost about $7.5 million each, according to the Army.

Out of a fleet of nearly 2,400 tanks, roughly two-thirds are the improved versions, which the Army refers to with a moniker that befits their heft: the M1A2SEPv2, and service officials said they have plenty of them. "The Army is on record saying we do not require any additional M1A2s," Davis Welch, deputy director of the Army budget office, said this month.
Interesting indeed. Thanks for the info.
 
IMHO they should continue to pour money into the Abrams Tank and the necessarily giant infrastructure / overhead that goes along with it.
It is our Main Battle Tank and we need to keep its culture alive and breathing.
The only way to do that is to pour money into it.
Someday we'll sure be glad we did.

7.5 million a piece is PEANUTS compared to the F - 35 JSF @ about 75 million dollars a piece. That's 10X the cost.
 
IMHO they should continue to pour money into the Abrams Tank and the necessarily giant infrastructure / overhead that goes along with it.
It is our Main Battle Tank and we need to keep its culture alive and breathing.
The only way to do that is to pour money into it.
Someday we'll sure be glad we did.

7.5 million a piece is PEANUTS compared to the F - 35 JSF @ about 75 million dollars a piece. That's 10X the cost.

Sure and you can do just that IF IT'S YOUR MONEY not taxpayers money!!!!! remember the army said NO we don't need any more tanks
 
Id rather them pour the money into a weapon system that is combat proven and WORKS vs billions into programs for equipment that is questionable and gets canceled anyway......see Marine Expeditionary Vehicle. id rather them Upgrade the M1A2s with the longer gun out of the Leapord 2 tank. Now that is an upgrade worth having
 
IMHO they should continue to pour money into the Abrams Tank and the necessarily giant infrastructure / overhead that goes along with it.
It is our Main Battle Tank and we need to keep its culture alive and breathing.
The only way to do that is to pour money into it.
Someday we'll sure be glad we did.

7.5 million a piece is PEANUTS compared to the F - 35 JSF @ about 75 million dollars a piece. That's 10X the cost.

Not too many tank battles in the future I would bet. The time of the tank ended after WWII IMHO.
 
So, for all those getting excited of losing "capability":

1. These plants are now tooled to "refurbish" not build new tanks. Sure there is "overlap", but there is overlap with building any heavy machinery.
2. Go back and read-up on the WWII build-up. Anyone with a "factory" of any sort jumped into the business of building what we needed. We should be striving to have a robust, profitable and diverse economy that drives innovation and expertise broadly during peace time. When war comes, smart, capable people are able to shift their focus to what is needed for war.

Keeping things that we don't need running on a "what-if" is foolish and wasteful. It rewards stagnation and punishes innovation.

- - - Updated - - -

Not too many tank battles in the future I would bet. The time of the tank ended after WWII IMHO.
Well, they might come in handy for domestic action when Canada invades... [laugh]

Or the people get a little too uppity... [thinking]
 
I wish we would use a fraction of our defense/military budget to build up and maintain the best home defense in the world, and divert the rest of the money to other causes. So much of our money is wasted on other countries it's ridiculous.
 
Gonna have to agree with this statement.

Generals/Military Bureaucrats may be good at telling our elected officials what they need but lets be honest....their strong suit isn't economics nor is it manufacturing.

Letting our ability to manufacture/service/rebuild these resources means we lose years of time in getting these lines back up and running not to mention loss of manufacturing expertise
um, we have drones that can take out tanks. Tanks are old outdated technology.
 
We have dirt bags in third world countries that can jam/hack and steal drones. Drones are old/outdated technology /sarcasm

U.S. drone hijacked by GPS hack? | Security & Privacy - CNET News

Obviously no one tool can replace all others and each have strengths and weaknesses.
Ya I know what you mean that nothing is fool-proof. But i'd rather be flying the drone from a command center and fire at an enemy tank than to be in a tank, face to face with another tank.
 
Well, I am not a fan of Washington pork, but keeping the ONLY tank production facility in the nation operational might not be a terrible idea...

It's not going to shut down. They're set to start producing the A3 version in 2014, which is why DOD is insisting they don't need more brand new A2s.
 
um, we have drones that can take out tanks. Tanks are old outdated technology.

They were vital during the Iraq war and will be vital in any similar conflict.

The issue with stopping production is that not only will the experienced labor be lost, but the entire supply chain will go away. It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars and several years to restart production.

Comparing production of WWII tanks to Abrams tanks isn't realistic. Abrams are many times more complex than Sherman tanks.
 
Ya I know what you mean that nothing is fool-proof. But i'd rather be flying the drone from a command center and fire at an enemy tank than to be in a tank, face to face with another tank.

We ought to equip them with an AI and send them out to fight on our behalf. I'm sure it would work out well.


Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.
 
Gonna have to agree with this statement.

Generals/Military Bureaucrats may be good at telling our elected officials what they need but lets be honest....their strong suit isn't economics nor is it manufacturing.

Letting our ability to manufacture/service/rebuild these resources means we lose years of time in getting these lines back up and running not to mention loss of manufacturing expertise

Ok so lets keep spending money that we don't have that just GREAT wait wait let me bendover and take alittle more this time I will try to SMILE and say thank you sir can I have another
 
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