M-16 Era Ends: Army's 101st Airborne Division Receives Next-Gen Assault Rifles

PappyM3 said:
The M4 is NOT going away. The era is not ending. The XM7 and XM250 are only getting issued to combat arms troops. And even then, I suspect leaders, grenadiers RTOs, medics, etc will still continue to use M4s.

I’m “meh” on the XM7. I think it, along with its cartridge and XM157 optic will be great to outfit the rifleman position in a fire team, and maybe the team leader. But everyone else should retain the M4. The XM250 on the other hand is so amazing. Lighter than the M249, even with a silencer on it. And much, much better external ballistics. Ammo weighs more, but some units already use the 7.62 Mk48 instead of the 249 anyway. So that ammo weight will stay the same.
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Do you think they would have troops in combat together using different platforms that take different mags and different ammo? I was under the impression that it was a priority and it was important to keep that stuff the same. My knowledge is very limited on this subject.
 
LakeTrout said:
Do you think they would have troops in combat together using different platforms that take different mags and different ammo? I was under the impression that it was a priority and it was important to keep that stuff the same. My knowledge is very limited on this subject.
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They already have SDMs shooting 7.62 rifles
 
LakeTrout said:
Do you think they would have troops in combat together using different platforms that take different mags and different ammo? I was under the impression that it was a priority and it was important to keep that stuff the same. My knowledge is very limited on this subject.
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It's not ideal. Far from, in fact.

But it's been done before, successfully. A WWII rifle platoon had like four different shoulder weapons in three different calibers, all with (obviously) different mags. Not counting sidearms and MGs.

Modern doctrine trains for commonality of ammo and mags, but that can change. That's why they field in one battalion or one brigade: to iron out all those flaws, and identify unforeseen ones.
 
LakeTrout said:
Damn. 2 inch groups at 600 yards? That’s a 0.3 MOA rifle. Pretty accurate? More like other-worldly accurate and you are a world class shooter.
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It was 6 years ago at the sig academy. Just because you suck doesn’t mean I do. It was about 4 months after I took a shoot for 1000 class.
 
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PappyM3 said:
This one is a wundercartridge… or rather a wundercase. I’d love to see more bi-metal brass&steel cases available for other cartridges. I bet 6.8 SPC with the higher pressures of this case design, or 6 MAX with the higher pressure cases would be a fantastic update for M4s. I say 6 MAX because I don’t think the thin 6 ARC/6.5G bolts would survive long with the higher pressures.

A company named Shellshock Technologies is making some (called NAS3) for .223, 300blk, and 9mm cases. Some other ammo companies are loading with them.

I don’t see the appeal of 9mm using this technology though.
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They'd be better if they weren't a buck a round or whatever it costs.....

"More like .276 Cosby"


View: https://youtu.be/eXdNcKF_n4U?si=kF3bxTu1pS_4t5X7
 
jct61765 said:
I don’t think anyone is fawning over it. The actual cartridge for the military has crazy high pressures. The civilian stuff is tamed down. I think sig only has it chambered in their bolt gun.
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The gun shop commandos always do. They are always eager to tell you when the next thing that's better than sliced bread is coming out and then it usually barfs on its face and then it's not that it's necessarily bad but it usually ends up not being what it was cracked up to be. For what it's worth i thought 6.8 SPC wasn't a bad idea but sadly it suffered the same fate as most cartridges the millutary jerks off over
 
I think this new POS Sig gun and its BS caliber is going to be a disaster.

Greased palms and wool pulled over eyes by the Military Industrial Complex.

I would not own a Sig gun if it were free. I mean I'd take it but sell it to a sucker ASAP.
 
Glockster30 said:
You might not be able to because it's a weird hybrid cartridge that will not be able to be used in an AR10-type rifle. It has a stainless steel metal base, an aluminum locking washer, and a brass case. It also has a whopping SAAMI MAP chamber pressure of 80,000 psi.

.277 Fury - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 868454
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Edit: looks to be in advisable with normal AR10 bolts/lug sizes

You should be able to shoot it in an AR10. The XM7/MCX Spear bolt isn’t really special. The A weak point in the system for handling that pressure is the case head. Primers blowing out, etc. The steel head solves that problem.

An AR10 might need a high pressure bolt with a smaller firing pin hole, like the JP offering.
 
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LakeTrout said:
Do you think they would have troops in combat together using different platforms that take different mags and different ammo? I was under the impression that it was a priority and it was important to keep that stuff the same. My knowledge is very limited on this subject.
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Yes, they would and do. M110s, Mk48s, M240Bs, and so forth. When the XM7 and XM250 are fielded, it will be no different than the current 5.56/7.62 mix. Just 5.56/6.8. Though, while the XM250 is more capable than the M240, I don’t think there is a plan to replace the M240 at the moment. It’s used in too many other places like helicopters and Bradleys with special versions. I don’t recall if the upcoming 338 Norma MG is supposed to replace both the M240 and the M2, or just the M2.
 
PappyM3 said:
You should be able to shoot it in an AR10. The XM7/MCX Spear bolt isn’t really special. The weak point in the system for handling that pressure is the case head. Primers blowing out, etc. The steel head solves that problem.

An AR10 might need a high pressure bolt with a smaller firing pin hole, like the JP offering.
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doesn't the barrel have some unicorn fart lining so it won't burn up in 17 rounds? (obviously, equally applicable to an AR10...)
 
jct61765 said:
It was 6 years ago at the sig academy. Just because you suck doesn’t mean I do. It was about 4 months after I took a shoot for 1000 class.
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I thought you were saying you shot it to 600 and it was a 2” rifle (as in 2” at 100/2 MOA).

But I’m going to call complete BS that you shot a 2” group at 600 with it.
 
Mesatchornug said:
doesn't the barrel have some unicorn fart lining so it won't burn up in 17 rounds? (obviously, equally applicable to an AR10...)
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Yeah, Sig mentioned that and I’m not sure what they did.

In theory, it’s got a lot of pressure but isn’t too overbore. It probably has similar barrel life to a 270 Winchester WSM, but those are usually all stainless steel with understandably meh barrel life. I’d be curious what a normal chrome lined, and maybe CHF barrel could get to for barrel life.

Edit: 270 WSM, not Winchester
 
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PappyM3 said:
I thought you were saying you shot it to 600 and it was a 2” rifle (as in 2” at 100/2 MOA).

But I’m going to call complete BS that you shot a 2” group at 600 with it.
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Haha I was hoping he would correct the statement too. But then he came back seeming to insinuate that he really shot a 2” group at 600 yards with that 6.8 gas gun and that I suck for some reason.

He’s right that I do suck at shooting. But good Lord, if he shot that 2” group at 600 yards with said rifle, he is in a class that most of us certainly are not even close to.
 
LakeTrout said:
Haha I was hoping he would correct the statement too. But then he came back seeming to insinuate that he really shot a 2” group at 600 yards with that 6.8 gas gun and that I suck for some reason.

He’s right that I do suck at shooting. But good Lord, if he shot that 2” group at 600 yards with said rifle, he is in a class that most of us certainly are not even close to.
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Get that man out to Camp Perry! AMU better watch out.
 
Can anyone explain how these guns improve on the predecessors?
Both next-gen rifles "ensure increased lethality against a broad spectrum of targets beyond current/legacy weapon capabilities; increased range, accuracy, and probability of hit; reduced engagement time; suppressed flash/sound signature; and improved controllability and mobility," the Army's budget explains.
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What technical enhancements make these things, mentioned in the quote above, possible?
 
PappyM3 said:
I thought you were saying you shot it to 600 and it was a 2” rifle (as in 2” at 100/2 MOA).

But I’m going to call complete BS that you shot a 2” group at 600 with it.
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Maybe you should apply for an instructors job at sig. You seem cool.
 
When I handled them at Sig, they had the funky hexagonal suppressor shield on them. Looking online, I've only found a single photo of it. All other photos of them suppressed have the unshielded cans (SLX?). Sort of strange.

IMG_7629.jpg


I'm having a hard time believing nearly doubling the weight is a good idea. Going from what, 7 pounds to a 12 pound rifle, is not insignificant.
 
jct61765 said:
Why don’t you take some classes at sig like I did.
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You’re at the wrong spot in a Dunning-Kruger plot.

Edit, to elaborate and help clear this up about why your feat seems unbelievable:

1. A 0.4 MOA capable AR is downright amazing. That is really hard, even with custom match rifles with Bartlein barrels, hand loads, and accurized in other ways. Doing it with what appears to be a factory Ruger piston operated carbine is crazy. I’d be really impressed if it shot 1.5 MOA groups. Unless your group is 2 or 3 rounds. Then what you got was just statistical luck on a windless day. 3 round groups aren’t too useful, because of statistics.

2. For perspective, the NRA 600 yard MR-1 target has a 6” X ring. The 10 ring for a perfect score is 12”. The record at the 600 yard line for the High Power Individual Rifle is 200-17. So they got all 20 shots within 12”, but “only” 17/20 shots within 6”. Nevermind sub-3”. This record wasn’t even made until 2021. First place at the Massachusetts State Championship last year got 195-7, or 7/20 within 6” and 5 shots outside of 12”.

3. The above record was done with a 20” .223 competition rifle with a very nice barrel and external ballistics (wind resistance) of its bullet better than your 6.8 SPC. If you’re off on your wind read by only 1 mph, you’ll get a 2” drift at 600 yards with a 6.8 110gr BTHP. If there’s just a mere 3 mph gust as you take your shot, then your bullet will drift 13”.
 
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