About 40 guns stolen from Lowell home

[exo]

Nah, alarms can be defeated. He should have had a moat. And armed guards, and satellite video coverage. And the moat should be filled with sharks. With laser beams. Yeah.

I was thinking the same exact thing. Where does it end? All the folks saying well he should have had an alarm, that would've stopped it - BS, and GMAFB.

 

[joeendris]

How about we put the blame on the criminal?

In this ****ed up world where the law is a behavioral modification scheme meant to control private acts, we seem to have lost the concept that crimes against property are extremely threatening to liberty and free enterprise. Apart from crimes against men, property crimes are the most serious offensive act imaginable. Now as it is, we put someone away for years if they happen to possess the wrong kind of powder or pill, but if they break into your home and steal stuff the punishment is far more lenient. That is severely screwed up and just goes to show how far we are from a just society.

And let's be very clear about this: The owner is not 5% to blame, not 1%, and not anything other than zero. There are two very important reasons for this. The first is the concept of culpability, lost on many. Second is the array of limitations the state puts on property owners who wish to protect what is theirs. Cut us loose to kill thieves on sight and to implement truly effective anti-theft (and anti-thief) devices and maybe we can talk about responsibility (culpability being off the table in any case).

In Mass, you're not allowed to protect property. So, where does that leave us?

 

[flintoid]

In Mass, you're not allowed to protect property. So, where does that leave us?

****ed.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I should not have to choose any level security, other than a closed door to my house. There was a time when we displayed our firearms like trophies.

QFT

The other day I was looking at a cool offering of an antique gun made in the mid-1800s and uses totally obsolete ammo. Then I thought . . . why buy it, no way I'd be comfortable displaying it while living in MA and since I wouldn't shoot it, it would just gather dust in a corner of a safe. So I passed on it. I do admit that if I lived in NH (my goal), I would re-consider and probably proudly mount something like that on a wall.

 

[namedpipes]

 

[dwarven1]

Coming soon to a NH town near you: Statutory moat installation (with laser sharks!) for all gun owners. You heard it here first.


I'm going to start a petition.

Hell with the petition. I'm moving to the Cape where I will raise sharks and open a shark surgical suite, which will specialize in installing frickin' laser beams in their heads. I'm gonna make a killing.

Rifle into plowshare conversation party at Flintoid's house.

I'll be there with cash to buy some of those evil rifles away from folks before they beat them into plowshares...

 

[Gadsden]

I guess I better go turn all my guns in because I'm failing at owning them. Thanks for the heads up, gentlemen.

I thought you got rid of them after you said "If a tornado hits, I will sell all of my guns!".
You lied, sir. You should be sanctioned.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

 

[MisterHappy]

The "crap" started when a victim of a crime was further victimized by the cops.

The "crap" got deeper when apologists for the .gov say, "Well....If I had that many guns...." or "You have a responsibility to make sure that you're criminal-proof".

When the unlawful actions of another party, against you, are used to restrict your rights or liberties, then it's "crap".

 

[TheRoland]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

NES is still a great place, but you must have noticed substantive discourse hasn't been the norm for a while now.

 

[jasons]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

 

[Gadsden]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

reps ++
Very true, let's not lose focus.

 

[DickWanner]

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

I can not say it any better.

I've said before that MA Gun Owners are their own worst enemies and it still seems to ring true today.

 

[josh2600]

I never said that. But if I had 40 highly valuable guns, in a "vault" why didn't I have an alarm on my house wired into the phone system or something of that nature.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. I was playing out a scenario in my mind and asking input. Difference of opinions I guess. That's the great part of living here. We can all have our own opinions.

He's has no obligation to have an alarm. You do realize that in most other states this guy could have had every one of his guns laying around his house, right? wake up.

Stop blaming victims.

 

[josh2600]

The guy in Lowell screwed up.

He didn't screw anything up, he was robbed by some a**h***s. /end

 

[josh2600]

And if someone breaks into your home and steals your guns or other property, you have only yourself to blame. Not the police. Not the state legislature. Not the Governor and certainly not Obama. It was your risk and your choice.

Should you have to pay for that choice by having your rights revoked and spending thou$and$ to stay out of jail?

Absol-***ing-lutely not.

...actually, you have the thief to blame.

 

[xtry51]

Wow. So guns are killy and I should always plan on my rights and property being violated by the state and criminals. This thread delivers.

All we need now is for Japollner to start talking about why it's important to ban the shoulder thing that goes up and I think we'll be able to win the internet with this one.

 

[Gadsden]

...actually, you have the thief to blame.

Agreed, and he clarified his position.

 

[OfficerObie59]

MA gun STORAGE laws are NOT anti-theft laws, they specify that a simple trigger lock is adequate for storage. Thus, MGL makes it legal to leave ALL your guns with trigger locks on top of a bureau or leaning against the walls and leave your house. [I'll agree that it is unwise, but merely point out that it is 100% legal!]

Indeed.

The "Safe Storage" law in MA was passed for that rationale (however flawed) alone...safe storage--to prevent accidental use by children. It has nothing to do with preventing theft, despite the manner in which it has been enforced and judically interpreted.

How a person stores their firearms should be up to them. If access is gained, let them face whatever civil remedy might arise from their negligence. Otherwise, keep the criminal law out of it.

 

[cekim]

Indeed.

The "Safe Storage" law in MA was passed for that rationale (however flawed) alone...safe storage--to prevent accidental use by children. It has nothing to do with preventing theft, despite the manner in which it has been enforced and judically interpreted.

How a person stores their firearms should be up to them. If access is gained, let them face whatever civil remedy might arise from their negligence. Otherwise, keep the criminal law out of it.

It was interesting to see the SJC revisit this reality in the recent storage case (based on oral argument comments).

As you mention, the courts had long legislated from the bench that this was an an anti-gun, er, anti-theft law as well.

 

[terraformer]

It was interesting to see the SJC revisit this reality in the recent storage case (based on oral argument comments).

As you mention, the courts had long legislated from the bench that this was an an anti-gun, er, anti-theft law as well.

The problem with the Reyes case was the SJC followed it with a second case out of Hampden Cty which completely blew out of the water the issue of children and special needs individuals only. That the psycho got a hold of the gun and tossed it out the window made it an even more difficult proposition to use that case to fight the issue. Conjoined with the poor briefing on that case by the attorney and the timing we had, there was no way to address the full breadth of the issue. I am afraid we may actually have lost the opportunity to treat unlicensed adults as authorized persons without legislative intervention.

Though an acceptable answer to this is get everyone inside the household licensed as a means of insulating yourself from the issue.

 

[davemata]

Apology accepted.

I should not have to choose any level security, other than a closed door to my house. There was a time when we displayed our firearms like trophies.

There was a time when many of us were like my neighbor, keeping a shotgun in the rifle rack on his truck.

This thread has taken some odd twists. Been reading to catch up and thinking to myself....
So wait, when my jeep was stolen last month, it was my fault because I didn't have an alarm on it? Sweet.

 

[vipprimo]

Next it'll be, tie up your chainsaw and put a lock on your steak knives. Would hate for one of those to go missing! It's just another way for the state to get into your house and tell you how to do things. They're already in your car telling you to click it or ticket (not wear your seat belt because we want you to be safe, no just straight threaten us).

I'm amazed that whenever I talk to anyone on a state level the response is always "you should've done <insert item> differently and you wouldn't be here." Why is it my fault?

 

[davemata]

According to some.

Tell you what, had someone said that to me after I found my jeep missing, they would be missing some teeth and I'd be facing a jail sentence.

 

[OfficerObie59]

The problem with the Reyes case was the SJC followed it with a second case out of Hampden Cty which completely blew out of the water the issue of children and special needs individuals only. That the psycho got a hold of the gun and tossed it out the window made it an even more difficult proposition to use that case to fight the issue. Conjoined with the poor briefing on that case by the attorney and the timing we had, there was no way to address the full breadth of the issue. I am afraid we may actually have lost the opportunity to treat unlicensed adults as authorized persons without legislative intervention.

Though an acceptable answer to this is get everyone inside the household licensed as a means of insulating yourself from the issue.

Did you guys have an oppurtunity to fight the case consolidation?

 

[dwarven1]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

You just noticed this tendency? It's been happening for years. It's the NES way.

 

[OfficerObie59]

I am afraid we may actually have lost the opportunity to treat unlicensed adults as authorized persons without legislative intervention.

The problem I see is that if you were to go with the legislature and say "Hey, you know the law only applies to kids, right?" the response will be "Oh, I guess we need to fix that then and make it apply as a theft deterence. too."

Nex thing you know, the only way you'll legally be able to store guns in your home is to build a fallout-rated bunker in your basement.

 

[kingfisher]

I'm really disappoint with what's happened here. This is a very important thread about a really outrageous abuse of prosecutorial power and over the last couple of days it's just gone to shit. Must we crap up everything?

As the person who resurrected this thread after a 2.5 month break, I agree with Knuckle Dragger, but maybe we can get back on track here after the detour.

I was also hoping that the following lines in the article would get more attention than they have:

Rep. Kevin Murphy proposed legislation last year to require gun owners to keep their weapons secure and have an alarm system in their home.

"You can't imagine after we filed that legislation how we were vilified and criticized by people outside of Lowell," Murphy said.

He said passing new gun laws is "almost impossible to do" in the current political climate.

"It's frustrating," Murphy said.

I wonder who specifically he's talking about, but BRAVO to everyone who helped make that so!

 

[terraformer]

Did you guys have an oppurtunity to fight the case consolidation?

They didn't consolidate the cases, they simply scheduled them back to back...

 

[Palladin]

Massachusetts......places legal gun owners right up there with registered sex offenders. The only two classes of people who, by law, must notify their LEO of a decision to relocate their place of domicile.