a few 1911 questions?

[roux]

I got my first 1911 a few weeks ago and gotta say I absolutely love it, its a s+w pd. I have a few questions though.

I was told to leave the hammer half cocked when not in use, such as in a safe. All the pics I see of 1911s are either fully cocked or resting on the firing pin. How should I leave it?

If its left empty in a safe, is it ok to leave the slide back?

I have read elsewhere that dry firing a 1911 does no harm is this true?

I have only been able to shoot lead target ammo through the gun due to the indoor range thing. I have had a few misfires. Is this due to the lead reloads or just the break in period? I have put about 250-300 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned each time. I have never had a new pistol before just used ones that were already broken in.

Just wondering which grain 45 you prefer to shoot?

Thanks in advance for any info

 

[Dirtypacman]

I have a 1911PD also - great gun!
I leave it unloaded with slide closed in my safe. ( I have never heard a preference as to how it should be stored)
I dry fire mine without a concern.
I would say it would be the break-in period - even over cleaning it can cause build up causing failures. I had a few myself when cycling between fmj and hp. I am still not 100% confident until I get a few hundred without a failure.
The gun shoots accurate, trigger pull is awesome.

(By the way I am jealous of your rep Only 9 posts and you already have one less green bar then me. Must been one hell of a post you made)

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

I got my first 1911 a few weeks ago and gotta say I absolutely love it, its a s+w pd. I have a few questions though.

I was told to leave the hammer half cocked when not in use, such as in a safe. All the pics I see of 1911s are either fully cocked or resting on the firing pin. How should I leave it?

If its left empty in a safe, is it ok to leave the slide back?

I have read elsewhere that dry firing a 1911 does no harm is this true?

I have only been able to shoot lead target ammo through the gun due to the indoor range thing. I have had a few misfires. Is this due to the lead reloads or just the break in period? I have put about 250-300 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned each time. I have never had a new pistol before just used ones that were already broken in.

Just wondering which grain 45 you prefer to shoot?

Thanks in advance for any info

If you're going to do a lot of dry firing for practice, I would get a set of snap caps

 

[Pilgrim]

I got my first 1911 a few weeks ago and gotta say I absolutely love it, its a s+w pd. I have a few questions though.

I was told to leave the hammer half cocked when not in use, such as in a safe.

Why? No reason to at all.

All the pics I see of 1911s are either fully cocked or resting on the firing pin. How should I leave it?

if empty, hammer down, if loaded, fully cocked and locked

If its left empty in a safe, is it ok to leave the slide back?

Yes, but Why?

I have read elsewhere that dry firing a 1911 does no harm is this true?

not a problem

I have only been able to shoot lead target ammo through the gun due to the indoor range thing. I have had a few misfires. Is this due to the lead reloads or just the break in period? I have put about 250-300 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned each time. I have never had a new pistol before just used ones that were already broken in.

What kind of misfires? F T eject or feed is usually a limp wristing problem with the light 1911's

Just wondering which grain 45 you prefer to shoot?

230

Thanks in advance for any info

...

 

[M1911]

I got my first 1911 a few weeks ago and gotta say I absolutely love it, its a s+w pd. I have a few questions though.

I was told to leave the hammer half cocked when not in use, such as in a safe. All the pics I see of 1911s are either fully cocked or resting on the firing pin. How should I leave it?

If its left empty in a safe, is it ok to leave the slide back?

Leave it slide closed, hammer down all the way.

I have read elsewhere that dry firing a 1911 does no harm is this true?

Yes.

I have only been able to shoot lead target ammo through the gun due to the indoor range thing. I have had a few misfires. Is this due to the lead reloads or just the break in period? I have put about 250-300 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned each time. I have never had a new pistol before just used ones that were already broken in.

What do you mean by "misfires?" Did the hammer fall but the round not discharge? If so, was their a light strike on the primer? Were you shooting reloads? Who was the manufacturer of the ammo? If the primer strike looks good, it was likely bad ammunition.

If it was a failure to feed, that could be caused by ammunition, break-in, or several different problems with the gun (tight chamber, rough breech face, extractor issues, etc.).

Just wondering which grain 45 you prefer to shoot?

230

 

[IPSC_DRL]

The half cock notch is a safety feature and I can't think of any reason someone would tell you such a thing. Leave the hammer down when stored. With the slide locked open you are compressing the springs. Try not to drop the hammer on an empty chamber. Lower it slowly while holding the trigger back.
I use 230 grain ball almost exclusively. Tastes differ.
As for the misfires, does it leave a dent in the primer? If not you may have some gunk in the firing pin channel. High primers will also exhibit misfires but will leave a dent in the primer.

 

[Preachers Sheets]

It could be the reloads, I got some really poopy reloads and the slide was stuck, the bullet's were getting half way in and getting sliced and other weird stuff. I took the mag out, put in factory ammo and it was perfect. I used the reloads I got from the same person before and after and the gun shot fine. No big deal, my guy is fine 98% of the time and he's always at the range.

I keep my 1911 cock and locked, it has JHP at home but I like to shoot 230 ball at the range.

I really wish I got the 1911SC or the 1911PD I saw but I didnt know any better (had the license for a full 24 hours then went shopping). Now I want to get the 1911SC like crazy; why...I dont know, I have the T&H restrictions. I have the regular 1911 with the adjustable target sights and 5" barrel. I think the gun is the balls but I worry that it might be a tad big to carry.

 

[BrianWilson]

I might be wrong,but I think that the grip safety releases a firing pin block on that gun.Failing to fully it depress it...Good luck..nice pistol

 

[bhmax16]

Congrats on the 1911...I don't have anything else to add besides what others have told you here. I too would like to know what you mean by misfires though...was it a failure to feed or extract? Or did the hammer drop and the pistol simply didn't fire? If that's the case, and you have a good dent in the primer, then I too think it's an ammunition related issue. FTF or FTE are more common due to breakin period of the gun though...however...I find the S&W 1911's tend to run 100% out of the box (I have a full size stainless S&W 1911 with olive drab crimson trace grips). Never a failure of any kind... I prefer 230gr out of it...Federal HST +P for defense ammo, usually winchester white box or some cheap corbon or prvi for the range

 

[Supermoto]

I might be wrong,but I think that the grip safety releases a firing pin block on that gun.Failing to fully it depress it...Good luck..nice pistol

Yep, S&W can have timing issues. with the grip safety partial engaged, the trigger can move and release the sear, but the firing pin safety has not disengaged fully, causing the firing pin to drag. Hammer drops, gun does not fire.

The primers will tell you what is happening

 

[M1911]

Yep, S&W can have timing issues. with the grip safety partial engaged, the trigger can move and release the sear, but the firing pin safety has not disengaged fully, causing the firing pin to drag. Hammer drops, gun does not fire.

The primers will tell you what is happening

Agreed.

roux, we need more detail on what happened.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I might be wrong,but I think that the grip safety releases a firing pin block on that gun.Failing to fully it depress it...Good luck..nice pistol

Edited to reflect correction in post #13.

What you are describing is the Schwarz safety system used on a few very old Cols 1911s and recently used on Kimbers. Some other 1911's have a firing pin block safety egnaged by pulling the trigger (the "Series 80" style safety), whereas the traditional design, that many manufacturers still use, has neither.

 

[M1911]

You are wrong in most cases. What you are describing is the Schwarz safety system used on a few very old Cols 1911s and recently used on Kimbers. Some other 1911's have a firing pin block safety egnaged by pulling the trigger (the "Series 80" style safety), whereas the traditional design, that many manufacturers still use, has neither.

I believe the S&W 1911s use the Series 80 style firing pin safety rather than the Schwarz safety.

No, that is not correct. The S&W 1911 uses a Swartz style firing pin safety. So does Kimber II. ParaOrdnance and SIG GSR use the Series 80 style, trigger operated firing pin safety.

 

[TomH]

No, that is not correct. The S&W 1911 uses a Swartz style firing pin safety. So does Kimber II. ParaOrdnance and SIG GSR use the Series 80 style, trigger operated firing pin safety.

I have to say I hate that "Swartz" firing pin safety on Kimbers, it is the one thing that keeps me from buying one. The one I am familiar with, the part sticking up from the grip safety doesn't really clear the slide, making taking it on/off difficult. It will also marr up the back of the slide if you aren't extremely careful. I thought that the firing pin spring was enough to keep the pin from contacting the primer?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

No, that is not correct. The S&W 1911 uses a Swartz style firing pin safety.

Thanks for the update - rep point inbound. I'm familiar with both types but obviously have never owned an S&W 1911.

 

[M1911]

I have to say I hate that "Swartz" firing pin safety on Kimbers, it is the one thing that keeps me from buying one. The one I am familiar with, the part sticking up from the grip safety doesn't really clear the slide, making taking it on/off difficult. It will also marr up the back of the slide if you aren't extremely careful. I thought that the firing pin spring was enough to keep the pin from contacting the primer?

From what I've read, the Kimber II system seems to be more trouble-prone than the S&W system, but both have apparently caused failures to go bang. 1911 gunsmith Hilton Yam has been very critical of the Swartz-style safety. The Kimber II guns have also been criticized for having extractor issues -- I've only got Series I Kimbers, so I have no direct experience with Kimber II or S&W 1911s.

As for the firing pin spring, the firing pin has inertia. If you drop a series-70 1911 from a high enough height, onto its muzzle on a hard surface, the inertia may overcome the force of the spring and result in an ND. How high must that be? Dunno. To meet the CA drop-test requirements, I have read that Springfield Armory installs a lightweight firing pin (which therefore has less inertia) and an extra strength firing pin retaining spring. I use an extra strength firing pin retaining spring in my 1911s.

But Springfield's solution doesn't address one possible failure mode. If the nose of the sear breaks off, I believe that the hammer will fall, and the gun will discharge. The Series 80 style firing pin safety will prevent this mode of failure. If the nose of the hammer breaks off, the sear points should intercept the half-cock notch, preventing a discharge.

A firing pin safety is a good, last-ditch safety system to prevent a discharge in the event of parts failures. But the hard trick has always been implementing such a safety without corrupting the trigger pull. That is the one advantage of the Swartz style firing pin safety.

But IANAG, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Edited to add: Note that Series 80 and Swartz style 1911s should be drop safe. It is only Series 70 and earlier 1911s that are not drop safe.

 

[roux]

WOW tons of info here- thanks all

The mis fire thing may be my fault, I have been trying to shift my grip slightly to get better grouping on the targets etc... Being left handed I seem to push the groups towards the right side of the bullseye. Maybe my grip was weak on the backstrap.

Anyways, I pull the trigger and it is locked up , the hammer is still cocked and the round still in the chamber. I eject the magazine and pull the slide back to check, the round does not eject it stays lodged in the chamber. I reset the slide and have been able to fire it from the chamber. Again it may be my fault not sure

 

[M1911]

WOW tons of info here- thanks all

The mis fire thing may be my fault, I have been trying to shift my grip slightly to get better grouping on the targets etc... Being left handed I seem to push the groups towards the right side of the bullseye. Maybe my grip was weak on the backstrap.

Anyways, I pull the trigger and it is locked up , the hammer is still cocked and the round still in the chamber. I eject the magazine and pull the slide back to check, the round does not eject it stays lodged in the chamber. I reset the slide and have been able to fire it from the chamber. Again it may be my fault not sure

OK, let's be clear on the terminology:

misfire: you pull the trigger, the trigger falls, but the gun does not go bang.

What you had happen was NOT a misfire. If I understand you correctly, you pulled the trigger but the hammer did not fall. Is that correct?

If the hammer did not fall, then it isn't an ammo problem. Perhaps you didn't have the grip safety full depressed, or perhaps the grip safety is not properly fitted.

If you opened the slide and the round did not extract, then you have a separate extractor problem that needs to be attended to. In general, it is not a good idea to close the slide when you already have around in the chamber -- that causes the extractor to snap over the rim of the cartridge.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I pull the trigger and it is locked up , the hammer is still cocked and the round still in the chamber. I eject the magazine and pull the slide back to check, the round does not eject it stays lodged in the chamber.

Sounds like you where out of battery.

 

[M1911]

Sounds like you where out of battery.

Doh! That's another possibility that actually might be ammo related. Are you sure that the slide was fully closed? If the slide wasn't fully closed (because the round didn't fully feed -- this is called a failure to feed) then the hammer would not fall.

 

[Mike-Mike]

that actually might be ammo related.

More likely due to a first round in anew mag of someone "riding" the slide forward.

 

[M1911]

More likely due to a first round in anew mag of someone "riding" the slide forward.

That could also cause it.

 

[roux]

OK, let's be clear on the terminology:
My bad on the terminology

misfire: you pull the trigger, the trigger falls, but the gun does not go bang.

What you had happen was NOT a misfire. If I understand you correctly, you pulled the trigger but the hammer did not fall. Is that correct?
Affirmitive yes correct

If the hammer did not fall, then it isn't an ammo problem. Perhaps you didn't have the grip safety full depressed, or perhaps the grip safety is not properly fitted.
I did have a good grip each time, It seems as if I would really have to make an effort to keep the grip saftey from being depressed

If you opened the slide and the round did not extract, then you have a separate extractor problem that needs to be attended to. In general, it is not a good idea to close the slide when you already have around in the chamber -- that causes the extractor to snap over the rim of the cartridge.

Makes sense, the round looked as if it was lodged in, and I did not have any way to get it out. As a last ditch effort I closed the slide with the round in the chamber

On each occurance it was never the first round of the magazine

 

[M1911]

Makes sense, the round looked as if it was lodged in, and I did not have any way to get it out. As a last ditch effort I closed the slide with the round in the chamber

You might be able to reach in with a pen or something and grab the rim of the cartridge. Or tap it out from the muzzle with a balsa rod. Or just tap the backstrap of the gun against your palm.

On each occurance it was never the first round of the magazine

OK, so that rules out riding the slide forward.

 

[roux]

Guess I just have to go back to the range- so sad ha ha

 

[TomH]

As for the firing pin spring, the firing pin has inertia. If you drop a series-70 1911 from a high enough height, onto its muzzle on a hard surface, the inertia may overcome the force of the spring and result in an ND. How high must that be? Dunno. To meet the CA drop-test requirements, I have read that Springfield Armory installs a lightweight firing pin (which therefore has less inertia) and an extra strength firing pin retaining spring. I use an extra strength firing pin retaining spring in my 1911s.

I have a Springfield that came with the titanium firing pin. I removed it, and replaced the springs. The hammer has to fall faster to move the titanium pin, and thus has a heavier spring. This makes the trigger pull crappy. With a steel pin, and new wolff springs it is a great gun to shoot. I think you would have to drop the gun from very high to get it to fire... and then it would have to land on the muzzle for that inertia to translate to the pin in the correct direction. Sometime when I'm bored I'll calculate how high that would be...

 

[TonyDedo]

Great gun! Welcome to the 1911 club!

II was told to leave the hammer half cocked when not in use, such as in a safe. All the pics I see of 1911s are either fully cocked or resting on the firing pin. How should I leave it? If its left empty in a safe, is it ok to leave the slide back?

Are you using the gun for home defense? If so, you should store it in one of two ways:

1. Full mag, empty chamber, hammer down. All you have to do is rack the slide, and you're good to go.
2. Full mag, round in the chamber, hammer up, safety on (known as "cocked and locked"). To use, flick off the safety and go.

If you're not storing the gun for self defense, slide should be closed, hammer down, magazine out.

You're not going to harm the gun leaving the slide locked back (springs don't wear from being compressed), but I could easily see the slide stop getting bumped and dropping the slide when you don't want it to.

I have read elsewhere that dry firing a 1911 does no harm is this true?

Dry fire away! The cheapest practice you can get. Once you get going, get some dummy rounds for ball and dummy or malfunction drills.

I have only been able to shoot lead target ammo through the gun due to the indoor range thing. I have had a few misfires. Is this due to the lead reloads or just the break in period? I have put about 250-300 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned each time. I have never had a new pistol before just used ones that were already broken in.

When you're done cleaning it, are you oiling the gun properly? Cleaning will wipe away the lubricant you need to keep the gun running reliably. Make sure you have a thin layer of oil any place there's metal-on-metal movement.

What type of bullet are you using? Round nose, or semi wad cutters? My 1911 won't feed wadcutters to save its life.

Also, make sure you're not limp wristing the gun.

And finally, when you chamber the first round, don't ride the slide forward. Slingshot the slide so your right hand (assuming you're shooting left handed) slides off the back of the slide and hits your left shoulder.

Just wondering which grain 45 you prefer to shoot?

I've stocked up on 230gr, but an instructor I work with has been trying to sell me on 200 grain round nose flat tip. I've shot a few so far, liked what I feel, and will probably reconsider next time I need to bulk up.

 

[kerismo]

I'm pitching a tent in the out of battery camp. Did any one think the reloads might have been off on the seating depth? or the soft lead catching the feedramp tip and getting galled? Just another idea.

 

[Fixxah]

Don't limp wrist it. Hold it tight and you may not have issues. This is assuming the ammo is up to spec.

Ny S&W 1911 has never had any issues unless I let others give it a whirl, even then it is a rarity. It has been quite broken in over the last couple of years.

 

[hovbuild]

The only problem I ever had with a s&w 1911 was trying to adjust the extractor so as to use a c-more red dot....No way could I do this correctly due to the external extractor. I do like this gun but will not buy a gun with this type of extractor since I am a big fan of red dots due to my tired eyes. Managed to get by but with an higher after market mount and fine tuning the ejector a bit. I do have a few 1911 and have tuned the triggers to feel and act like each other making it easier to go from gun to gun without having to make to many mental adjustments.
I have dry fired some of these 1911 10,000 times with almost the same amount of live ammo. You do have to check every 1000 rounds that the firing pin spring has not broken. IMO it is the best way to learn trigger control which to me is 90% of the way to shooting tiny groups. One of these guns is an "open" gun and I removed the firing pin safety. I highly recommend that you leave this feature in place until you become very familiar with your weapons.

Hope this helps, Bill