MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance

[BobbySticks]

Welcome to NES. That's one heckuva first post. Sounds like you might need a good probate lawyer as well as a firearms knowledgeable attorney.

We have several good lawyers here, depending upon where you are located. COMM2A (Commonwealth Second Amendment) might be helpful.

Good luck.

Lawyer 1 said say each of the guns is worth $500. (And there are roughly 20 of them). It's not worth it for a lawyer yet. Recommended I submit written request to property for releasing the guns to me when my LTC is done. Went over the whole bonds warehouse thing (which I wouldn't be notified of as, sugar baby took the money and ran type of thing)

Lawyer 2 thinks that them being bequeathed to me in will might be enough. depending on if the police will release it to me...

I did not think of the difficulty I might face on regards to his LTC and the section 12 so didn't get to ask for legal advice there yet.

 

[FPrice]

At the risk of getting in over my relative lack of legal knowledge, who is the Executor of his will?

$10,000 worth of guns is worth some paid time with an good lawyer.

But then, I am not a lawyer in real life. Nor do I play one on the internet.

 

[BobbySticks]

At the risk of getting in over the relative lack of legal knowledge, who is the Executor of his will?

$10,000 worth of guns is worth some paid time with an good lawyer.

But then, I am not a lawyer in real life. Nor do I play one on the internet.

His sister is executor. We are in good standing. Her and I took care of my uncle while he was on hospice.

BTW one of the lawyers is on the Comm2A website, good man.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is relatively easy to answer. IANAL, but with lots of MA gun law knowledge and knowledge of how many MA PDs operate.

MGL allows the executor/personal representative (this is the new PC term) to possess and distribute the gun without a LTC. That said, no PD that currently possesses the guns is going to hand them over to an unlicensed person (exector/PR). Be thankful that the PD is being cooperative. Many PDs would hand them over to a bonded warehouse that would charge close to that $10K to get them out once you are licensed.

The way this would likely work is that once you get your LTC in-hand, you would go with the Sister and a copy of the Will to the PD to get the guns handed off to you. You REGISTER each gun on the portal . . . NO info on the source of the guns. And Done!

Some PDs throw their own BS into the mix but the above is compliant with MGL and Fed Law on inheritance (that most PDs do not understand, or want to understand).
If the PD throws some other BS at you, I'd recommmend either Atty Neil Tassel or Atty Jason Guida to get involved in freeing up the guns.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Since a section 12 is an involuntary commitment, he is a federally prohibited person for life unless it was strictly an "evaluation" admission - and even the, getting his state rights back is complicated, time consuming, and requires an MD endorsement. In other words he is phucked.

It may not be cost effective to sue the department, but probably is to have the attorney do the negotiations. The executor has the legal authority to possess the guns, and the lawyer should explain this to the PD and see if things can be negotiated.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

MGL allows the executor/personal representative (this is the new PC term)

Probably because "executor" sounds too masculine and "executrix" can be confused with "dominatrix".

 

[BobbySticks]

This is relatively easy to answer. IANAL, but with lots of MA gun law knowledge and knowledge of how many MA PDs operate.

MGL allows the executor/personal representative (this is the new PC term) to possess and distribute the gun without a LTC. That said, no PD that currently possesses the guns is going to hand them over to an unlicensed person (exector/PR). Be thankful that the PD is being cooperative. Many PDs would hand them over to a bonded warehouse that would charge close to that $10K to get them out once you are licensed.

The way this would likely work is that once you get your LTC in-hand, you would go with the Sister and a copy of the Will to the PD to get the guns handed off to you. You REGISTER each gun on the portal . . . NO info on the source of the guns. And Done!

Some PDs throw their own BS into the mix but the above is compliant with MGL and Fed Law on inheritance (that most PDs do not understand, or want to understand).
If the PD throws some other BS at you, I'd recommmend either Atty Neil Tassel or Atty Jason Guida to get involved in freeing up the guns.

I spoke with Atty Guida and Atty Fagan. They were both very helpful. I thank you for the clear answer. (I think I finally understand best course of action)

It is a lot going on right now with funeral preparations, get this now I have sugar baby living across the street from me . My uncle served in Army. The guns go back to my great grand father's collection. I really don't want them leaving the family.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Another option if the police refuse release to the executor is having an FFL/MA Dealer you trust take possession or alternatively having the executor direct they be transferred to a person who already has an LTC. Think of the guns as defendants who are in jail - the quicker you can get them out of incarceration, the lower the chances of something bad happening to them.

 

[EJFudd]

My uncle served in Army. The guns go back to my great grand father's collection. I really don't want them leaving the family.

Sounds like they could be worth a lot more than $500 each (on average).

Len has got you covered, but I have to ask: Knowing the developing situation, why didn't you try to get your LTC long before this uncle passed?

I know, I know... Monday morning quarterbacking. But maybe a lesson here for others.

Let's just hope this can all be resolved before some evil "bonded warehouse" gets its hands on the guns.

 

[BobbySticks]

Another option if the police refuse release to the executor is having an FFL/MA Dealer you trust take possession or alternatively having the executor direct they be transferred to a person who already has an LTC. Think of the guns as defendants who are in jail - the quicker you can get them out of incarceration, the lower the chances of something bad happening to them.

Isn't there something about FFL and handguns? Worried I wouldn't get all the guns back this way.

Sounds like they could be worth a lot more than $500 each (on average).

Len has got you covered, but I have to ask: Knowing the developing situation, why didn't you try to get your LTC long before this uncle passed?

I know, I know... Monday morning quarterbacking. But maybe a lesson here for others.

Let's just hope this can all be resolved before some evil "bonded warehouse" gets its hands on the guns.

Uncle revealed diagnosis in Feb 2023. Married in May. Sectioned in August. I took my class same week. Police booked my finger printing for December. I persistently called them until they told me to come down and sit on my days off until someone was late. That happened in early October.

The lesson here is get LTC as soon as eligible because imo you shouldn't need one but you do.

 

[boatman]

Another option if the police refuse release to the executor is having an FFL/MA Dealer you trust take possession or alternatively having the executor direct they be transferred to a person who already has an LTC. Think of the guns as defendants who are in jail - the quicker you can get them out of incarceration, the lower the chances of something bad happening to them.

I agree with Rob. I think the longer they sit w local PD, unless you know them well, the greater the possibility of something happening to them. Sounds like they are not easily replaceable items.

OP is in a crappy situation w this as well as having to deal with losing a family member. Must be someone on this forum who is or knows a FFL that can help him out while he is limbo?

 

[PaulR]

Sounds like it's going to work out for you OP. Just hoping sugar momma doesn't throw wrenches. Probably not since they are bequeathed to you in the will already, that carries weight.
I wish you continued good luck.

 

[BobbySticks]

Only person I could really trust with them would be my brother in Maine. Not very familiar with their laws but I know they are better than here.

Now I have spoken to property dept w my local PD. They still have them and the officer I spoke with is aware of my situation and told me they hold them for a year (or six months can't recall) from when they send the letter. And then he mentioned they hadn't sent it yet and might not send it for another three months .

 

[BobbySticks]

Sounds like it's going to work out for you OP. Just hoping sugar momma doesn't throw wrenches. Probably not since they are bequeathed to you in the will already, that carries weight.
I wish you continued good luck.

Yes thank you all this forum was very helpful will update when I have collected what is mine.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The problem involving an FFL is MGL and the AG's BS.

Any handguns "not on the list" of approved handguns . . . even if they are old, FFL may want proof before releasing them.

Any long guns that AG BS might affect may also be a problem getting a MA FFL to release.

You need to vet the FFL very carefully with full details on each gun before going that route.

Also, it might be rather expensive to involve an FFL, as their transfer fees/gun does add up.

 

[BobbySticks]

The problem involving an FFL is MGL and the AG's BS.

Any handguns "not on the list" of approved handguns . . . even if they are old, FFL may want proof before releasing them.

Any long guns that AG BS might affect may also be a problem getting a MA FFL to release.

You need to vet the FFL very carefully with full details on each gun before going that route.

Also, it might be rather expensive to involve an FFL, as their transfer fees/gun does add up.

Agreed. Someone also suggested transferring to another but since there are so many guns that would be very complicated and getting them back in my name would be difficult. 4 transfer per year w/o FFL.

 

[milktree]

Lawyer 1 said say each of the guns is worth $500.

Why? The value of the guns is 100% irrelevant here, at least as far as the state is concerned. $100 or $5,000 each doesn't change anything. (other than the ex-wife trying to sue you for them or something)

On the very, very small chance you're worried about taxes, don't. The beneficiary doesn't pay tax on inheretance or gifts. The estate of the deceased does. The federal exclusion for estates is $8M or maybe $16M or something huge. The Mass. exclusion is only $1M, but the marginal rate isn't large until the estate gets up to like $16M or something. And the cost basis for anything you inherit is the value at the time of death, so anything you choose to sell would be tax-free (assuming no appreciation) This isn't really an issue in the real world 'cuz I've never heard of anyone declaring capital gain on guns they sold, ever.

 

[BobbySticks]

Why? The value of the guns is 100% irrelevant here, at least as far as the state is concerned. $100 or $5,000 each doesn't change anything. (other than the ex-wife trying to sue you for them or something)

On the very, very small chance you're worried about taxes, don't. The beneficiary doesn't pay tax on inheretance or gifts. The estate of the deceased does. The federal exclusion for estates is $8M or maybe $16M or something huge. The Mass. exclusion is only $1M, but the marginal rate isn't large until the estate gets up to like $16M or something. And the cost basis for anything you inherit is the value at the time of death, so anything you choose to sell would be tax-free (assuming no appreciation) This isn't really an issue in the real world 'cuz I've never heard of anyone declaring capital gain on guns they sold, ever.

I think he was giving example some guns would be junk some would be worth more. And rather than me pay out the rear in lawyer fees if they go to bonded warehouse or police won't release them... The cost vs money recouped would not be worth it...

My uncle was in Iraq, grand father in WWII and these were entrusted to me and it's not about the money whatsoever. But I also don't have a ton of money for lawyers so will try to WIN without. Also don't want his estate to need to pay for any additional lawyer fees, his son (Airforce Vet) suffered TBI this year (wear your helmets).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Agreed. Someone also suggested transferring to another but since there are so many guns that would be very complicated and getting them back in my name would be difficult. 4 transfer per year w/o FFL.

Yup, but chances are some of them could be transferred via an FFL. The law and AG regs are ambiguous on "purveyment". For example, it seems to be accepted that a MA/FFL dealer can check in an off list or AG denounced gun for repair, and transfer it out to the same person. Transfer between in-duh-viduals can be considered either "taking the gun in and selling it" or "transfer without a sale". Most FFLs err on the side of caution, and evidences by obedience to a stripped lower ban supported by AG "notice" but not law. (If the a stripped lower is not a firearm, rifle or shotgun under MGL, how can it be a similar gun to an AR?)

Why? The value of the guns is 100% irrelevant here, at least as far as the state is concerned. $100 or $5,000 each doesn't change anything. (other than the ex-wife trying to sue you for them or something)

On the very, very small chance you're worried about taxes, don't. The beneficiary doesn't pay tax on inheretance or gifts. The estate of the deceased does. The federal exclusion for estates is $8M or maybe $16M or something huge. The Mass. exclusion is only $1M, but the marginal rate isn't large until the estate gets up to like $16M or something. And the cost basis for anything you inherit is the value at the time of death, so anything you choose to sell would be tax-free (assuming no appreciation) This isn't really an issue in the real world 'cuz I've never heard of anyone declaring capital gain on guns they sold, ever.

The MA $1M is not an "exclusion" but a "threshold". If the estate is over $1M, it pays the inheritance tax from the first dollar. You net more from a $1M estate than you do from a $1.04M estate. So, the marginal rate if you inherit slightly over $1M can exceed 100%. Yes, really. There is an effort to chance that to $2M, but I am not aware of its status.

 

[milktree]

The MA $1M is not an "exclusion" but a "threshold". If the estate is over $1M, it pays the inheritance tax from the first dollar. You net more from a $1M estate than you do from a $1.04M estate. So, the marginal rate if you inherit slightly over $1M can exceed 100%. Yes, really. There is an effort to chance that to $2M, but I am not aware of its status.

You're right, "exclusion" was the wrong language. It's absolutely insane that it's not an exclusion. Every other similar tax *starts* at the first dollar beyond the exemption. But not Mass DOR!

FAQs: New Estate Tax Changes

FAQs regarding recent law changes to the estate tax for decedents dying on or after January 1, 2023.

www.mass.gov

The $2M threshold seems to have been enacted, and it happened only in October, retroactive to Jan. 1, 2023:

New Law Changes Massachusetts Estate Tax Exemption Amount

Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey signed a bill on October 4, 2023 amending the state’s estate tax law.

www.morganlewis.com

But, of course, the state can't keep their shit up to date:

A Guide to Estate Taxes (still says $1M)

 

[Palladin]

Since a section 12 is an involuntary commitment, he is a federally prohibited person for life unless it was strictly an "evaluation" admission - and even the, getting his state rights back is complicated, time consuming, and requires an MD endorsement. In other words he is phucked.

It may not be cost effective to sue the department, but probably is to have the attorney do the negotiations. The executor has the legal authority to possess the guns, and the lawyer should explain this to the PD and see if things can be negotiated.

He's not phucked, he's dead. that's the entire point of the post LOL

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He's not phucked, he's dead. that's the entire point of the post LOL

I hoped I deleted that post before anyone read it. Crap.

 

[FPrice]

I hoped I deleted that post before anyone read it. Crap.

NOTHING disappears on the internet. Especially not our goofs.

 

[BobbySticks]

Just update. Police continue to work with me. Will release to me when I have my license. Told me I have to go through FFL suggested that I go visit FFLs locally trying to get a deal given the situation. He will provide me with serial numbers of guns to bring to them to "help me out".

Advised that I cannot just register them to myself because they would already be registered to my uncle.

 

[FPrice]

Advised that I cannot just register them to myself because they would already be registered to my uncle.

Er, I think that is "not quite correct". Pleare review @Len-2A Training 's advice above (post #394) and maybe contact him for further guidance.

Don't want you to get into a pissing contest with that officer.

 

[BobbySticks]

Er, I think that is "not quite correct". Pleare review @Len-2A Training 's advice above and maybe contact him for further guidance.

Well he is a cop not a lawyer. But will do my do diligence.

Oh I see his caveat most PD don't fully understand...true.

 

[pastera]

Just update. Police continue to work with me. Will release to me when I have my license. Told me I have to go through FFL suggested that I go visit FFLs locally trying to get a deal given the situation. He will provide me with serial numbers of guns to bring to them to "help me out".

Advised that I cannot just register them to myself because they would already be registered to my uncle.

Neither of the statements are true.
The firearms are the property of his estate and state law includes provisions for the executor to directly transfer them to you.
Also, you are registering the transfer not the gun - the system doesn't care who you received it from when done properly.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Neither of the statements are true.
The firearms are the property of his estate and state law includes provisions for the executor to directly transfer them to you.
Also, you are registering the transfer not the gun - the system doesn't care who you received it from when done properly.

This!

Wait until you get your LTC and then perhaps paying Neil Tassel or Jason Guida to provide a letter to the PD advising what they should do might be the best idea.

 

[FPrice]

Bobby, sent you a private message.

 

[BobbySticks]

Hi thanks for having me. My situation is fairly unique, I've talked to two mass gun lawyers who were helpful but both said that the police may try and rail road me here and there.

My uncle married a "sugar baby" after being diagnosed with a terminal illness. When he realized she was grifting him and wanted a divorce, she had him section 12'd. Because of the section the police seized all weapons and they are with the property dept.

My application for license is pending w my local PD. When I left the finger print guy said probably be 60 days. I'm about 30 days in. When I talked to property last I explained situation they said they would hold them for six months from when they send us a letter (assume I won't get the letter and it will go to the woman he was divorcing)

My uncle has now passed, "all guns and ammo" are named to me in will. I believe 129c (n) indicates I can possess the guns for 180 days while license pending...but guns are with police. Can I get them from police without a license in this situation?

Will provide further updates, not sure my uncle's LTC was revoked or not when he was section's, so unsure of best way to transfer via eFA10 inheritance or registration when I have my license?

Conclusion: LTC was issued ~90 days after fingerprinting. Police agreed to not send guns to a bonded warehouse. A lot of the information on the inventory sheet from PD was wildly inaccurate. I went through a local FFL for the transfers as I had very little knowledge on the actual information regarding these guns.

After receiving my LTC and bringing some paperwork to PD it took about a 2-3 days for the police to drop off the guns, the FFL to look them over and transfer them to me. Happy with the process, one of the shotguns was reportedly sawed off so police kept that to dispose of. There was a hand gun as well with a damaged serial number as well and the FFL is going to update me if we can complete transfer. Thanks everyone that helped along the way.