.380 vs 9mm

[hminsky]

OK, this has probably been beaten to death all over the place, but what is the relative "stopping power" of .380 ACP to 9mm?

I just saw a Beretta 85FS .380 which was very nice, but I never considered .380 before. I know a lot of people think 9mm is not really adequate, whatever that means, so what about .380 ACP?

 

[Bugs100]

There's so many different types of .380 and 9mm loads to figure in, that question would take forever to answer.

You can choose from more of a wide assortment of .380's cartridges now than you ever could in the past. There's some pretty good self defense loads being offered for them. There's nothing wrong with carrying a .380 as long as you can hit the target with it.

Here's a couple of good carry rounds.

Speer Gold Dot (90 grain) GDJHP

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok (90 grain) JHP

 

[Pilgrim]

I have had both .380's and 9mm's...never used any 'special' ammo, just what was cheap on the shelf.

I find that the .380 is relatively puny compared to the 9mm...using generic ammo.

Even so, I don't think a .380 is something to sneeze at.

 

[dwarven1]

But .380 ammo is a lot more expensive to buy... makes practice more expensive.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Cool! A caliber war!

The .380 is like a 9mm short (in fact, that's what they call it in Europe - 9mm kurz). The both use .355" diameter bullets, but the 9mm is far more powerful.

For example, here's the performance for couple of max loads for each:

9mm -124 gr bullet @ 1249 fps, 430 ft/lbs of muzzle energy
.380 - 95 gr bullet @ 1027 fps, 223 ft/lbs of muzzle energy

You can see that the 9mm has nearly twice the energy of the .380. Both of those are the respective rounds most powerful max loadings from the Speer Reloading Manual #13. Since they both make the same sized hole, there's little to debate - the 9mm is a better man stopper. With that said, I wouldn't want to get shot by either of them.

 

[Scrivener]

The REAL question is not "Which has more power?" but "Which will I actually HAVE if I need it?"

I have a CS 9, but my Beretta .25 is virtually invisible, so it gets taken with me FAR more often!

A "manstopper" in the safe does you no good whatsoever......

 

[firtree]

I have a CS 9, but my Beretta .25 is virtually invisible, so it gets taken with me FAR more often!

A "manstopper" in the safe does you no good whatsoever......

I 100% agree. I love my Sig .45, and carry it whenever possible, but I
know that the Seecamp .32 in my pocket is quick and easy to carry, so I
carry it all the time.

F

 

[jhrosier]

The .380 is nominally half as powerful and effective as a 9mm. Now that many makers are offering subcompact 9mms, the need for a .380 is pretty much ended. the smallest .380s are still about half the size of the smallest 9mms, but the smallest 9mms are roughly the same size as a typical .380 of fifty years ago. There is a nostalgic factor in the Walther PPK or Mauser HSC, that keeps them in production.
I'd personally rate the .380 as marginally effective and the 9mm as nearly effective, if that makes any sense to you.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Another problem with the .380 is perceived recoil. Many (most?) .380 pistols are blowback operated, while most 9mm's use some kind of locked breech. Bllowback pistols feel "snappier" and can be more difficult to realign for follow up shots. If you don't believe me, try firing a PPK and a 9mm Baby Glock. Even though the guns are similar sized, with the Glock being thicker and lighter, the PPK has more recoil.

 

[drgrant]

.380 is "better than nothing" but it's not in the same class as 9mm
luger, at least as far as using a JHPs is concerned.

The big difference is that 9mm Luger JHPs expand properly
more often than .380s do due to the extra velocity. I think some
of it is because .380s are limited to lighter bullets, and they can't push
them as fast, either. Some people will argue that .380 ball is even
better than JHP because it will penetrate further.

I generally agree that .380 is kind of a non starter, on the general market,
due soley to the existence of guns like the Kahr MK9 / PM9, or even a
Glock 26.

The problem is of course, for most of us here in MA, something like a walther
PPK or PPK/S, or an S+W j frame wheely, are a lot easier to come by than
an MK9, due to the crappy laws here.

Again, as scriv and others have mentioned... <anything> is better
than the gun you would have left at home because it was too
large/cumbersome to carry for the occasion. A .22 in the pocket is
better than the .45 thats left at home, etc.

-Mike

 

[MegaPlinker]

So why is .380 ammo so expensive? I thought of getting one as a plinking gun but its cheaper to just shoot my 9mm.

 

[Scrivener]

So why is .380 ammo so expensive? I thought of getting one as a plinking gun but its cheaper to just shoot my 9mm.

Surplus 9mm Luger is common because it is a military caliber; it is also still used here by many police. Neither is true for .380.

 

[highlander]

Hey guys I don't care which is more powerful mainly cause
I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE SHOT PERIOD.
but as far as the 380 Corbon must make something that's nastyon the other hand there are small 9 mm on the market as well

 

[Coyote33]

The makarov is right in the middle of them in size, price, and performance. In summary, it has relatively inexpensive ammo, and a relatively compact gun to shoot them out of which is allowable in MA.

Check out http://www.makarov.com



Found these while doing a google on corbon 380:

Bersa Thunder .380 with Corbon 80-gr. DPX Ammunition

A Comparison of 9x18mm Makarov, .380 ACP, and .38 Special (2" barrel)

Tested some rounds.



And make SURE you check out the "Box o Truth":


The Box O' Truth #26 - Little Guns vs. The Box O' Truth

Many of us have, from time to time, carried small guns that are easy to conceal. If asked, we would justify it by saying, "A .32 in your hand is better than a .45 ACP in your safe."

But, as Clint Smith has observed, "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever." But if we decide to carry a small gun so that we can more easily conceal it, how effective will it be against bad guys? That's the purpose of today's test.



The Box O' Truth #27 - Little Guns vs. The Box O'Truth #2

As often happens, the Little Guns post presented us with some additional questions. We figured it was only appropriate to give it a follow-up to settle a few of them. Once again, we will be looking at small carry guns. There are sometimes called Back-Up Guns or BUGs for short. The main reason for their existence is simply the ease with which they can be concealed.

 

[Weerd Beard]

9mm is more powerful than the .380, but it isn't anything to sneeze at. Ross fails to mention how he put a mag of ammo from his PPK through the door of my car at the NES car-shoot.

The only thing I would be concerned with is weather it's better to use FMJ ammo or JHP. I'm not sure if a JHP would penetrate effectivly enugh to stop a BG.

But the FMJ will do the trick for sure....it's not a .45 or a .44 Magnum, but a gun in you pocket when you need it is always better than a gun locked in a safe somewhere.

Arrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[drgrant]

So why is .380 ammo so expensive? I thought of getting one as a plinking gun but its cheaper to just shoot my 9mm.

It's expensive because the use rate of the ammo is probably fairly
constant (eg low) so theres not a lot of the ammo being produced, and its
tougher for the ammo companies to justify running a .380 ACP line, when
the same equipment can probably run other ammo. So the economy of
scale isnt pushed as well as it should be. I'd place a fair wager that
ammo companies don't even run a .380 ACP line more than a small part
of the time... that is how unpopular it is compared to 9mm Luger,.40 S+W
and .45 ACP.

It's the same as the 10mm problem, except not quite as bad. Basically the
"off calibers" are more expensive due to relative manufacturing costs and the
like, and a relatively fixed yearly supply.

-Mike

 

[dwarven1]

9mm is more powerful than the .380, but it isn't anything to sneeze at. Ross fails to mention how he put a mag of ammo from his PPK through the door of my car at the NES car-shoot.

I did? I thought I mentioned it in my post in the car-shoot thread... Or were you talking about in this thread? I didn't mention it because the only thing I was commenting on was the relative cost of ammo - and .380 is more expensive.

 

[Weerd Beard]

yeah. .25 ACP is expensive too!

Wimpy little round, and it costs as much as Cheap .45 ACP!

booooo

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard (I still love my Colt 1908!)

 

[dwarven1]

yeah. .25 ACP is expensive too!

Wimpy little round, and it costs as much as Cheap .45 ACP!

That's why they make reloading presses, Andy...

 

[Weerd Beard]

That's why they make reloading presses, Andy...

Have you looked at reloading recipies for .25 ACP???? I don't think I'm an experienced enugh a reloader to reload .25 ACP just yet.

Plus I don't shoot my 1908 very often, so it's not that big a deal.

Now my 1911...that's somthing I need to reload for, and do!

Arrrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[dwarven1]

Have you looked at reloading recipies for .25 ACP???? I don't think I'm an experienced enugh a reloader to reload .25 ACP just yet.

Uh... no; why? [sound of ruffling pages]



The Lyman book lists exactly TWO loads... a 50gr FMJ and a 51gr RNL. And depending on the powder used, you need 0.7 to 1.6 grains of powder per round. Yeah, that's some pretty small loads there. OK, Andy... guess you're off the hook.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Uh... no; why? [sound of ruffling pages]



The Lyman book lists exactly TWO loads... a 50gr FMJ and a 51gr RNL. And depending on the powder used, you need 0.7 to 1.6 grains of powder per round. Yeah, that's some pretty small loads there. OK, Andy... guess you're off the hook.

Try it sometime Ross. It's hell. I've done it a few times and won't try it again. Think about it, with a .7 grains charge, if you're off by .1 grain, you've missed by 14%! That's like going +/- 6 grains on a .500 S&W!

Plus, if you use Remingtom brass, it won't hold a bullet. There's no factory crimp die available so you have to seat and crimp at the same time. The bullets are the size of lentils; so placing them on top of the cases requires precision and patience. The primer pockets on all brass either seem too loose or too tight. In short, it sucks reloading them.

If you want, I'll save my brass for you, and you can try to reload it. Only one condition: I get to watch. Bwaaaah hah hah hah hah hah hah

Besides, why carry a .25 when a .22LR is a way better round?

EDIT: Never mind, I thought you were advocating reloading the little sucker. Kids, never drink and post.

 

[dwarven1]

EDIT: Never mind, I thought you were advocating reloading the little sucker. Kids, never drink and post.

I was wondering what you were talking about!! Hey, Eddie, I won't ever even OWN a .25 unless someone GIVES me one! I've never seen a .25 that wasn't a jam-o-matic (and now all the outraged .25 owners will weigh in here with how reliable their little toys are ). But I'll never own one.

 

[Scrivener]

I've reloaded .25 ACP. One word of advice: DON'T!

For what you'll spend on dies and waste for time trying to manipulate those little bullets onto tiny cases, just buy Blazer to practice with.

My Beretta hasn't jammed.

Then again, it's not like I shoot it much....

 

[wchandler]

The REAL question is not "Which has more power?" but "Which will I actually HAVE if I need it?"

I have a CS 9, but my Beretta .25 is virtually invisible, so it gets taken with me FAR more often!

A "manstopper" in the safe does you no good whatsoever......

I agree as well! My AMT .380 backup always seems to make the cut when trying to decide what to carry. Especcially, in the summer months with shorts and Tee shirts... My Kelt-tec .32 is practically invisible but at a loss of power.

 

[Weerd Beard]

I was wondering what you were talking about!! Hey, Eddie, I won't ever even OWN a .25 unless someone GIVES me one! I've never seen a .25 that wasn't a jam-o-matic (and now all the outraged .25 owners will weigh in here with how reliable their little toys are ). But I'll never own one.

Next time we shoot together I'll bring my 1908. I think John Browning was foolish for MAKING the .25 ACP load, but when he actully made the pistols to toss that odd little round.

the gun is 90+ years old, and it has never failed to fire, or jam. The only problem I've had with the gun is chambering the first round, and that's simply because the cheezy mag I have is all shot-out.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Producer]

Just my 2 cents...

I use a .380 in the summer. The PPK is a lot easier to conceal then any of my 9's. The carry ammo I tested made a rotten mellon into rotten mellon juice. Unfortunately, its not my firearm, but the wife's. So I keep looking at dwarven1's post from a while back.

 

[GTOShootr]

I reload a lot of 9mm and I hate .380.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I reload a lot of 9mm and I hate .380.

Is it that much harder than 9mm? .380 is one of the calibers that I reload. I don't reload 9mm because it costs less to buy it than to load it.

The only problem I had with loading .380 was when the bullets were not secure enough in the cases. In other words, when you'd push on the end of a loaded round, the bullet would move into the case. I traced the problem to the Remington brass. In some calibers, Remington brass is thinner at the top than any other brand (I've measured about a dozen). I won't use Remington brass for .32 ACP, .380, or 10mm. It's loose in .38/.357 too, but with revolver rounds I can use a roll crimp to keep the bullet in place. The .45 ACP seems to be OK.

 

[GTOShootr]

I'm being completely selfish and joking a little. I hate .380 because sometimes a .380 piece of brass will get into my 9mm brass and make a little mess as it goes through my reloader. Even then, it only pops out of the primer station and dumps a powder charge onto the shell plate.

I reload 9mm for a gun where I need 125grn bullets to do close to 1400fps. Other than that, I would only reload it for the need of out of the ordinary bullet weights, better than factory accuracy, or the simple pleasure of reloading.

I don't think I've even shot a .380 before so I have nothing to add to that part.