2023 MA Gun Ban: House has engrossed H.4139, waiting on Senate

[Broc]

How do you feel about bringing manufacturing back to the US? Because that's one thing that Trump always talked about but aside from a few tariffs didn't do a whole lot about. Unlike the way the current EV subsidies are structured. There are very strict qualifications in the IRA for when a vehicle is determined worthy of the credits. In order to be eligible at all it has to have been assembled in North America. Very few vehicles are currently eligible due to that restriction. BUT you may notice that just about every single foreign owned car company has a manufacturing plant under construction right now so that they will be able to meet that requirement in the next few years. I'd say that's money very well spent on blue collar workers and local engineering jobs. Even Chinese owned Volvo/Polestar have a plant under construction currently.

If that's true, then half of the credit ($3,750) is granted if the battery minerals were "extracted or processed in the United States or a U.S. free-trade agreement partner or recycled in North America." The second half of the credit requires that "battery’s components that are manufactured or assembled in North America." Good. Keep industry local and with our trade partners. What's so bad about that? It keeps our allies strong while spending very minimal money in the process and money that goes right back to taxpayers. And each of those two categories has a percentage that has to be met to qualify. It's why some Teslas fell off the eligibility list in 2024 because they weren't able to meet the increased 50% requirement. That goes all the way up to 80% in 2027 and 100% for batteries in 2029. All North American labor close to home. But you might say that's a problem because it includes Mexico and Canada. So what? We want a strong Mexico so people stop coming over the border from there and take the easier route and just stay. It's a long trip through so if Mexico becomes more prosperous we have less illegal immigration to deal with.

Win-win for short money and no military involvement. It's really a well targeted funding for local industry expansion. Unlike the CHIPS act where we're just paying giant companies to build factories here directly but US citizens don't directly get that funding back.

Take it to a Trump thread.

As far as EV - any subsidy is bad for the country. If you can't see it, go to the EV thread.

Can we continue to talk about this bill?

 

[pinefd]

Do people just respond to whatever is the newest post without regard to the topic?

You must be new to NES.

Take it to a Trump thread.

Can we continue to talk about this bill?

 

[Dennis in MA]

Take it to a Trump thread.

As far as EV - any subsidy is bad for the country. If you can't see it, go to the EV thread.

Can we continue to talk about this bill?

I still just feel like they are waiting until we all calm down and then they do a 1 day ram-thru.

It would be really really nice if the federal judge that shuts this down in 6 months calls out specific members of the MA legislature for FAFO'ing and admonishes them. It won't happen, but it would be a nice touch. Maybe make one or two of them look like pariahs because Rome is burning and they are worried about something the SC settled 2 years ago.

 

[kevin9]

Take it to a Trump thread.

As far as EV - any subsidy is bad for the country. If you can't see it, go to the EV thread.

Some people need to get rooms (or go to the proper threads). Must be that there's no rooms available because they've all been taken up by the border invaders.

Can we continue to talk about this bill?

Yes. Please.

 

[knucklehead]

"No specific date but we anticipate receiving it in the next few weeks, possibly sooner. Reason for vagueness is just that it still being worked on" Chief of Staff for Paul Feeney. When I asked for any updates on this abortion of a bill.

 

[HARRYM]

How do you feel about bringing manufacturing back to the US? Because that's one thing that Trump always talked about but aside from a few tariffs didn't do a whole lot about. Unlike the way the current EV subsidies are structured. There are very strict qualifications in the IRA for when a vehicle is determined worthy of the credits. In order to be eligible at all it has to have been assembled in North America. Very few vehicles are currently eligible due to that restriction. BUT you may notice that just about every single foreign owned car company has a manufacturing plant under construction right now so that they will be able to meet that requirement in the next few years. I'd say that's money very well spent on blue collar workers and local engineering jobs. Even Chinese owned Volvo/Polestar have a plant under construction currently.

If that's true, then half of the credit ($3,750) is granted if the battery minerals were "extracted or processed in the United States or a U.S. free-trade agreement partner or recycled in North America." The second half of the credit requires that "battery’s components that are manufactured or assembled in North America." Good. Keep industry local and with our trade partners. What's so bad about that? It keeps our allies strong while spending very minimal money in the process and money that goes right back to taxpayers. And each of those two categories has a percentage that has to be met to qualify. It's why some Teslas fell off the eligibility list in 2024 because they weren't able to meet the increased 50% requirement. That goes all the way up to 80% in 2027 and 100% for batteries in 2029. All North American labor close to home. But you might say that's a problem because it includes Mexico and Canada. So what? We want a strong Mexico so people stop coming over the border from there and take the easier route and just stay. It's a long trip through so if Mexico becomes more prosperous we have less illegal immigration to deal with.

Win-win for short money and no military involvement. It's really a well targeted funding for local industry expansion. Unlike the CHIPS act where we're just paying giant companies to build factories here directly but US citizens don't directly get that funding back.

He hit China with large tariffs. But, please realize that many US companies have made the move overseas to pay people less, escape regulations, escape paying benefits and have no intention of coming back. These companies have BILLIONS on the line and have no intention of allowing Trump or anyone else messing up their profits. We are up against a formidable foe with unlimited resources who cares little about the average American.

 

[pastera]

What are the odds the Senate version of the bill also contains the language about requesting a serial number (read: permission) from the state for a PMF?

Given the "ghost gun" misinformation campaign I am going to guess it is nearly a sure thing it will be included.

Dispite the fact they have no apparatus or funding to make it a reality.

100%
They have a hard on for ghost guns.
That's not going to change.
Fix will only be in the courts -> which means SCOTUS.

Edit: we will need a few people with squeaky clean hands to be plaintiffs for the various areas of the house, and likely Senate, bill.
One lawsuit to kill the entirety of their new bill is doomed to fail so a number of plaintiffs will be needed. That means not posting stupid come and get it shit.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Edit: we will need a few people with squeaky clean hands to be plaintiffs for the various areas of the house, and likely Senate, bill.
One lawsuit to kill the entirety of their new bill is doomed to fail so a number of plaintiffs will be needed. That means not posting stupid come and get it shit.

Business owner, community volunteer, certified instructor, etc.

 

[Broc]

100%
They have a hard on for ghost guns.
That's not going to change.
Fix will only be in the courts -> which means SCOTUS.

Edit: we will need a few people with squeaky clean hands to be plaintiffs for the various areas of the house, and likely Senate, bill.
One lawsuit to kill the entirety of their new bill is doomed to fail so a number of plaintiffs will be needed. That means not posting stupid come and get it shit.

I am mostly clean. Just a couple of STD from a Reptile Blowupdoll (I am starting to think it wasn't NIB). But those should be taken care of.

Kidding aside ...

I have sent Emails letting people know I would volunteer. But never heard back. So I am open to someone reaching out if I can help.

 

[inerlogic]

I hear the intro music just fine but it seems like someone turned on a sound box over Jim talk. All I hear is interference, like an out or tune radio!

static because his lapel mic wasn't turned up, so they boosted the audio in post (increasing the noise level with it) can hear his remote clicking through the teleprompter slides loud enough though....

 

[EJFudd]

100%
They have a hard on for ghost guns.
That's not going to change.
Fix will only be in the courts -> which means SCOTUS.

Very likely so.

Edit: we will need a few people with squeaky clean hands to be plaintiffs for the various areas of the house, and likely Senate, bill.

Is this the kind of plaintiffs who can complain that they are adversely affected because they can't do this or that under the new law?

Or is this the kind of plaintiffs who have to break a law, get arrested, lose in court, become PPs for life and then appeal their conviction up the food chain all the way to SCOTUS?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

One lawsuit to kill the entirety of their new bill is doomed to fail so a number of plaintiffs will be needed. That means not posting stupid come and get it shit.

That latter sentence would seem to rule out most of NES's active membership.

 

[KAG Arms]

Screw that. Get a small plot in NH and throw a tent on that to reside occasionally.

You don't know about the tunnel do you?

 

[Joeldiaz]

Here is is boys: Amendment S.2572

S.2572 “An Act to sensibly address firearm violence through effective reform”

 

[free]

Asking for the coyoteman:

what is different?
what is the same.
where are we on this.
somebody (else) should do something (undefined)
Toyota locking hubs are best

 

[Horatio Alger Jr]

Here is is boys: Amendment S.2572

S.2572 “An Act to sensibly address firearm violence through effective reform”

MA Gun Grab 2024: Senate bill S.2572

The Senate just dropped their version of the gun grab bill. https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/S2572 "An Act to sensibly address firearm violence through effective reform" We are looking at it now and will have more to say shortly.

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[KAG Arms]

Is this not a fair question? Or is it that the answer is just unclear?

The question is unclear.

 

[Broc]

Can a person buy, say a rifle with a pistol grip or some pcc with one (for example. would that be considered an assault weapon?). would take effect and would I have to turn it into the state if it passes? Just curious. My pre-law courses from 20+ years ago were of no help in deciphering the proposed amendment, haha. I ask because I am waiting for my ltc to come (it's approved and everything, just waiting for activation) and I just want to purchase something inexpensive and reliable like the ruger pc carbine (I don't really like handguns). I just don't want to buy one only to have it be banned.

If there is no law against it, you can buy it. Therefore this part makes no sense:

Would this be legal for someone to purchase before the law

This part you have to wait and see what the law they want to pass says.

would I have to turn it into the state if it passes?

No offense, but this is basic sh*t.

Also, you might want to learn how to clearly communicate... WTF is this sentence?
Makes my brain hurt.
I think I managed to decipher what you were asking.

Can a person buy, say a rifle with a pistol grip or some pcc with one (for example. would that be considered an assault weapon?). would take effect and would I have to turn it into the state if it passes?

 

[kalash]

If it passes you turn it in to me, not to the state.

 

[BOSBoatMan]

Is this not a fair question? Or is it that the answer is just unclear?

I just don’t know how to explain to you how to uncondition yourself from your conditioning. It must be hard breathing with that boot on your neck

 

[chris_1001]

If it passes you turn it in to me, not to the state.

I’m also accepting turn ins.

No questions asked unlike kalash

 

[mothybee]

I accept all turn ins and there's a $5 reward for your honesty.

 

[Picton]

I accept all turn ins and there's a $5 reward for your honesty.

I'm paying five-fitty.

 

[VTski4x4]

$100 flat.

 

[Coyote33]

I've been corresponding with Sen. Moore's office on this pending legislation. Latest reply included:

"..., I will also note that because the legislature operates on a two-year session, we are quickly approaching an important procedural deadline (known as Joint Rule 10) in two weeks. This deadline marks when committees must act on bills that were filed this session. It’s also generally when committees stop evaluating bills sent to them as the work shifts to legislation that has already been reported favorably to other committees. As a result, it is highly unlikely that anything filed after JR10 would advance during this session. To that end, any filing on these subjects would likely not happen until January of next year when the new session begins. I’ll circle back once I’m able to talk to the Senator directly about this. In the meantime, please feel free to reach me here if you have any questions."

My reply was that we all know that they can still AMEND existing bills.

I gave him several things he could add as amendments, some are hunting and sporting related, others are just 2A more or less.. I actually need to put together a list, and do the heavy lifting for him. I figure the less work he has to do, the more of a chance he might consider it. I would really like to figure out the best way to do this. You can either go the route of delete xyz and replace with abc, or you can go through bit by bit with deletes and adds.

Let's see if he stands with us or not.

 

[Joeldiaz]

Texted Senator Velis this morning asking for a timeline. He said "soon", "as early as next week". They are having a meeting today at 11 on the bill. He told me to text him later today and he will be able to provide a better timeline.

Guess Senator Velis left you in the dark on this one huh?

 

[sig shooter]

I've been corresponding with Sen. Moore's office on this pending legislation. Latest reply included:

"..., I will also note that because the legislature operates on a two-year session, we are quickly approaching an important procedural deadline (known as Joint Rule 10) in two weeks. This deadline marks when committees must act on bills that were filed this session. It’s also generally when committees stop evaluating bills sent to them as the work shifts to legislation that has already been reported favorably to other committees. As a result, it is highly unlikely that anything filed after JR10 would advance during this session. To that end, any filing on these subjects would likely not happen until January of next year when the new session begins. I’ll circle back once I’m able to talk to the Senator directly about this. In the meantime, please feel free to reach me here if you have any questions."

My reply was that we all know that they can still AMEND existing bills.

I gave him several things he could add as amendments, some are hunting and sporting related, others are just 2A more or less.. I actually need to put together a list, and do the heavy lifting for him. I figure the less work he has to do, the more of a chance he might consider it. I would really like to figure out the best way to do this. You can either go the route of delete xyz and replace with abc, or you can go through bit by bit with deletes and adds.

Let's see if he stands with us or not.

Looks like the senate added their gun bill as an amendment to the house’s bill. Does this allow them to ignore this and ram it through?

 

[Picton]

Looks like the senate added their gun bill as an amendment to the house’s bill. Does this allow them to ignore this and ram it through?

If they do, it won't gain them much: it would need to go back to the House and be re-debated, or they could (should, I guess) do the reconciliation before they pass it.

But the Senate doesn't like the House's bill, and I imagine the House is likely to return the favor. Remember, this is part of the pissing contest between the two. That might work to our advantage.

 

[dukeofsoul]

If there is no law against it, you can buy it. Therefore this part makes no sense:


This part you have to wait and see what the law they want to pass says.


No offense, but this is basic sh*t.

Also, you might want to learn how to clearly communicate... WTF is this sentence?
Makes my brain hurt.
I think I managed to decipher what you were asking.

My bad; my brain is absolutely fried. The question I'm asking is this: If I were to buy a pcc would it be considered illegal if this bill passes? (Basically, should I not waste my hard earned money).

 

[chris_1001]

My bad; my brain is absolutely fried. The question I'm asking is this: If I were to buy a pcc would it be considered illegal if this bill passes? (Basically, should I not waste my hard earned money).

Honestly at this point, no one knows.

I’d say buy it and roll the dice.

Lots of us have things that “might” be “bad”…

We won’t know until we know.

As I said, most of us are felons in waiting.

At least have some fun while you wait.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

My bad; my brain is absolutely fried. The question I'm asking is this: If I were to buy a pcc would it be considered illegal if this bill passes? (Basically, should I not waste my hard earned money).

What people are accurately telling you is that we don't know, yet. There appears, at first glance, to be no grandfathering which would make your new purchase illegal, but no one has had a chance to read it with a fine tooth comb and provide analysis yet.

Further, and likely more importantly, this bill has far to travel if/before it becomes a law and the interstitial time will likely bring alterations.

In Ma, we play by big boy rules, they are purposefully opaque and you aren't meant to understand them. It's unfortunate.