I just received the March/April 2012 (is it that late in the year already?) of American Handgunner which happens to have an article "Beer Budget 1911s". An interesting discussion of the pros and cons of some of the lower-priced 1911s on the market.
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1911 Opinions
- Thread starter Chris.Cal
- Start date
dcmdon
NES Member
Here's a link to the article.
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHMA12/?page=50
But let me explain a bit why I think the Ruger is a game changer.
I recently sold a Citadel 1911 to a guy. I purchased it from my wholesaler because it was made by Armscor, a low end 1911 maker with a solid reputation. (They also make Rock River Arms guns)
It is a nice, utilitarian 1911 with what would have been considered custom features 10 years ago: hi grip beavertail safety, lightened trigger, skeleton hammer, front cocking serrations, genuine Novak sights, and a bunch of items too small to remember.
But it was a nice gun, although you could tell they had cut some corners when you held it in your hand. Even still, reports from around the internet and my specific customer is that its a great, utilitarian 1911.
Now here is the game changer, the wholesale cost of the Ruger is $130 more. Except that when you pick up the Ruger its as nice as any factory made 1911 you will put your hands on. The finish of the gun is great. The fit of the parts are great, everything is great. (except the grips).
Don
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHMA12/?page=50
But let me explain a bit why I think the Ruger is a game changer.
I recently sold a Citadel 1911 to a guy. I purchased it from my wholesaler because it was made by Armscor, a low end 1911 maker with a solid reputation. (They also make Rock River Arms guns)
It is a nice, utilitarian 1911 with what would have been considered custom features 10 years ago: hi grip beavertail safety, lightened trigger, skeleton hammer, front cocking serrations, genuine Novak sights, and a bunch of items too small to remember.
But it was a nice gun, although you could tell they had cut some corners when you held it in your hand. Even still, reports from around the internet and my specific customer is that its a great, utilitarian 1911.
Now here is the game changer, the wholesale cost of the Ruger is $130 more. Except that when you pick up the Ruger its as nice as any factory made 1911 you will put your hands on. The finish of the gun is great. The fit of the parts are great, everything is great. (except the grips).
Don
Thanks for adding the online article.
As far as the Ruger 1911, do you know if it is a 100% compatible clone?
not new guy
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This guy says that it's comatible but for the plunger tube:
http://rugerforum.net/ruger-pistols/35780-sr1911-critique.html
http://rugerforum.net/ruger-pistols/35780-sr1911-critique.html
M1911
Moderator
What do you mean by that? 1911 parts are, for the most part, not plug and play. They require fitting.
I think what he means is that with the E series, no aftermarket 1911 rear sights made by anyone will fit. The only after market rear sight that will fit is one made by 10-8 performance.
That guy wrote an outstanding review! Since I like to think of myself as a big, strong guy, I was kind of wondering why the slide on my SR1911 takes as much force as it does to operate. Well the recoil spring is 23% stronger than a Colt's and my forearm strength isn't what it once was!
I could change the spring, but I'll probably just get my lazy butt back in training instead.
Oh yeah, and the whole family still loves it!
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dcmdon
NES Member
Standard is 16#. Wolf will sell you one for about $5
One other thing re Ruger is that they have been making frames as an oem for other 1911 makers for 20+ years. So the fact that theirs is a standard A2 pattern 1911 is no surprise.
I don't mean to sound like a Ruger fanboy but Ruger has always been pushing the state of the art in manufacturing efficiency since the original Mk I. The last 10 years have seen the rise of the term Concurrent Engineering. It's the idea that manufacturing requirements are integral to the design process. Bill Ruger Sr. Was doing that in 1950.
Don
MCS Precision
In the interest of full disclosure, my dad used to be on the team that did the audited financial statements for Sturm, Ruger, and Co. And has been a friend of Bill Jr.'s since the 60s. He also did the cost accounting on the Ruger luxury car of the late 60s that never made it to production.
One other thing re Ruger is that they have been making frames as an oem for other 1911 makers for 20+ years. So the fact that theirs is a standard A2 pattern 1911 is no surprise.
I don't mean to sound like a Ruger fanboy but Ruger has always been pushing the state of the art in manufacturing efficiency since the original Mk I. The last 10 years have seen the rise of the term Concurrent Engineering. It's the idea that manufacturing requirements are integral to the design process. Bill Ruger Sr. Was doing that in 1950.
Don
MCS Precision
In the interest of full disclosure, my dad used to be on the team that did the audited financial statements for Sturm, Ruger, and Co. And has been a friend of Bill Jr.'s since the 60s. He also did the cost accounting on the Ruger luxury car of the late 60s that never made it to production.
The need for fitting aside, can each 1911 part be fitted to a Ruger? Or is there some key part somewhere which is not the same as in Colts and their clones?
M1911
Moderator
I don't see anything in the Ruger 1911 that is very unusual. I believe the sight dovetails are the Colt standard, so lots of aftermarket sights should fit. And looking at the Ruger SR1911, I don't think there is much I would change other than the sights.
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This is all good news on the Ruger 1911. Haven't updated since I started the thread. I ended up deciding on the SR1911. I ordered it about a month and half ago.....maybe a little longer. It sounds like I made the right choice, and that it will be worth the wait. Cost was a huge deciding factor between Ruger and S&W. The sight dovetail was the straw on the camels back. I'm sure I will get an S&W down the road, but I think I found a good starting point.
I agree. I liked what you pointed out about the rear Novak sight and plan to swap it out for one like yours.
M1911
Moderator
Yes, it is a series 70 style design - no firing pin safety. I believe it has a titanium firing pin to improve drop safety.
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![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
M1911
Moderator
Nah. I've got the handle because I joined very early when it was still available, not because I am some fount of knowledge. Greg Derr has forgotten more about M1911s than I'll ever know.
not new guy
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Only change the things that annoy you the most, otherwise, just leave it alone.
-Mike
Thanks, but I'm going to hold off on making a decision on that until we have a few reckless/unreasoned responses to balance yours out.
M1911
Moderator
Eventually you figure out what you like. It took me a few years and some dumb luck.
That's correct... muzzle-first-drop safety improved by a combination of a titanium pin (lower inertial mass) and stiffer spring (to better hold what mass there is in place).
dcmdon
NES Member
I've been shooting actively for about 25 years and decided to give the 1911 a try about 3 years ago.
I don't like to shoot a bunch of guns because you never get good with any of htem. So this represented a commitment of sorts.
I knew enough to nail my selection of a range gun on my first try. My Les Baer Premier II is absolutely perfect.
My selection of a Baer Concept VIII was a mistake for a carry gun. Too heavy. I found myself leaving it home and taking the LCP. Flame all you want. But thats what was happening and I recognize my weaknesses and adjust.
I ended up with an Alloy framed Nighthawk with a Commander length slide (4.25") bobtail'd grip.
Its about half a pound lighter than the Baer and I like the full length grip. I carry it about 45% of the time, the bulk of the other time is with a Kahr P9.
In this pic you can see a size comparison between the 2 commander sized pistols and my Colt Officers ACP. (A future project gun)
The other thing I've found is that I prefer only a tritium front sight on my carry guns. For me it aids in intuitive pointing in the dark without the distraction of the rear sights
I hope this helps.
Don
I don't like to shoot a bunch of guns because you never get good with any of htem. So this represented a commitment of sorts.
I knew enough to nail my selection of a range gun on my first try. My Les Baer Premier II is absolutely perfect.
My selection of a Baer Concept VIII was a mistake for a carry gun. Too heavy. I found myself leaving it home and taking the LCP. Flame all you want. But thats what was happening and I recognize my weaknesses and adjust.
I ended up with an Alloy framed Nighthawk with a Commander length slide (4.25") bobtail'd grip.
Its about half a pound lighter than the Baer and I like the full length grip. I carry it about 45% of the time, the bulk of the other time is with a Kahr P9.
In this pic you can see a size comparison between the 2 commander sized pistols and my Colt Officers ACP. (A future project gun)
The other thing I've found is that I prefer only a tritium front sight on my carry guns. For me it aids in intuitive pointing in the dark without the distraction of the rear sights
I hope this helps.
Don
M1911
Moderator
That's what I've been doing with my existing 1911s.
Terrific post and beautiful guns, Don... thanks
dcmdon
NES Member
Thanks Mauser - I shot glocks in IDPA from 1998 on and while they ran flawlessly, I could never warm to a plastic gun. Its got nothing to do with the functionality of the gun. Glocks are as close to perfection as anything made by humans in my mind. (ZERO malfunctions in 30,000+ rounds fired when using factory ammo) Also, so cheap that you didn't even think of wear and tear.
But like a coldly competent German car, they didn't do anything for me.
M1911 - have you had any trouble with a burr forming on the tip of the pin? I remember a few years ago there was a problem with that on another brand of gun. I can't remember what. The burr formed then it started to pierce the primers. The problem was eventually traced to a specific characteristic of Ti and how it responds to repeated impacts.
Does CA do a drop test as part of their process? Just curious because the Les Baers are CA approved with a 70 style system.
It would be nice if someone could come up with a variation of the Schwartz (Grip safety activated firing pin block) that eliminated its weaknesses. (Gun can be rendered inoperable if assembled wrong with no indication until an attempt is made to fire and the requirement for some other proprietary parts)
Don
But like a coldly competent German car, they didn't do anything for me.
M1911 - have you had any trouble with a burr forming on the tip of the pin? I remember a few years ago there was a problem with that on another brand of gun. I can't remember what. The burr formed then it started to pierce the primers. The problem was eventually traced to a specific characteristic of Ti and how it responds to repeated impacts.
Does CA do a drop test as part of their process? Just curious because the Les Baers are CA approved with a 70 style system.
It would be nice if someone could come up with a variation of the Schwartz (Grip safety activated firing pin block) that eliminated its weaknesses. (Gun can be rendered inoperable if assembled wrong with no indication until an attempt is made to fire and the requirement for some other proprietary parts)
Don
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Totally agree with you about the feel of a 1911 vs. Glocks. My attachment to them is visceral, too.
I don't know about CA, but I understand that drop tests are part of the MA certification.
